Dear Jolla fans, community, customers and Jolla Tablet backers,
Less than two weeks ago, on Thursday November 12 I was presenting Jolla at the great start-up conference SLUSH 2015, telling about Jolla’s ups and downs, focusing on death valleys that we start-ups very often go through. I told the audience that so far Jolla has had two serious death valleys, one in the very beginning in 2013 when we lost our whole technology platform, the basis for our first smartphone. The second death valley was later in 2014 when the Jolla smartphone was not selling as anticipated and its technology was aging.
In my SLUSH presentation I also explained that the Jolla Tablet delays was Jolla’s third death valley, and that we are fully determined to overcome this challenge. The very next morning after SLUSH, I learned that our lead investor had withdrawn from the November financing round (total size of round around 10M€ investment), and that our biggest problem was in fact the company’s financing and survival overall. The Jolla Tablet is of course one important item here, but now the whole company’s future was at risk.
Last week we had to make the difficult decision to temporarily lay-off most of our people and apply for debt restructuring, which is a Finnish program similar to Chapter 11. These actions are hopefully only temporary as we aim to finalize the delayed financing round.
Jolla is now fighting for its survival. The key thing in this fight is that we succeed in our December financing round. If we do so, also the Tablet project can be resolved.
What happened with the Jolla Tablet project?
Many of you have been rightfully asking, where did our tablet money go? Below is an analysis of it in a simple graph. Big part of the tablet project went to Sailfish OS software development (more than 50% of project costs). As I have said in earlier blogs, hardware is the easy part, software is the king (and the beast).
As a whole the Jolla Tablet project got first three months delayed because of reasons explained in detail in our blog posts. The display issues and other component delivery challenges were in fact the primary reasons for the initial delays and increased the budget overdue. Although the tablet project has not been a profitable project for Jolla, it has been a key project to take Sailfish OS forward to a new level. Also I would like to highlight that the tablet project is not the reason for Jolla’s current financial challenges, but the delay of company’s overall external financing.
What happens next?
Meanwhile we are heavily working to get our funding in place in December we are also analyzing different alternatives to solve the Tablet project and compensate to our customers for the late or missing deliveries. Please stay tuned while we are figuring these solutions out. We can’t thank you enough for your patience already now.
Overall, as I also explained in a recent TechCrunch interview, the alternative OS is a really big and challenging agenda. But I still believe it is moving ahead, yet very slowly. The primary challenge for us is that our agenda might be somewhat forward leaning, and we need to wait until the world catches up with this vision that other OSs are heavily needed to create an alternative for Android. The interest for our agenda is just now emerging. I firmly believe that companies and consumers will soon realize that the world really needs options in mobile OSs. We’ve already had many interesting discussions with potential new partners about using Sailfish OS in their own projects. I’m looking forward to announcing the results of these talks soon.
Many of our dear community members have also asked how they could help Jolla to overcome this challenging time. I want to personally thank all of you for your continued support. Soon after we have overcome the first leg in this battle, we’ll come back to you about concrete ways to support us.
Your Jolla captain,
Antti
Good luck! Hoping jolla and sailfish to survive!
Antti:
Thank you for this post. I think a lot of us appreciate your decision to write the open letter. We certainly hope Jolla’s December is a great one and a very happy 2016. We know you’ll know how to make it up to us in the future.
For the angry (ignorant) backers, I strongly suggest you read about what’s going on in the rest of the planet. Then focus on Europe, it’s current economical and financial conditions, then zoom into the Finnish economy Please also take a crash course on How The World Works. After that, shoot us a message.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I am not frustrated for not being able to have a Jolla Tablet and it does seem that Jolla OS is not the best idea right now, specially for new money).
The marketplace is saturated. iOS and Android hold a ginourmus piece of the market. Don’t know how difficult it is to go against the giants? You think it’s an easy/intelligent battleAsk Jeff Bezos how is Fire OS doing this days, want to call Blackberry and ask them what is BB OS?
On the other hand, we all know the central banks are still flooding our economies. There is a LOT of cash in today’s world economy. Very wealthy individuals and many big companies hold herds of money and dont know where to invest it… So we might hit the jack pot.
If you ask me, Antti, I’d sell Jolla OS to Google.
Good luck
> If you ask me, Antti, I’d sell Jolla OS to Google.
You are the Best Troll Ever.
Let met top that 🙂
After 20 or more e mails hammering to get an e mail I finaly received my Full Refund on my Paypal account this morning!
Will never Back anything on Indigogo after this debacle.
Thanks Jolla for messing up a hardware project by using Your hackers money for software development only.
Can you let us know how you managed to get the refund? When I contacted Paypal, they say the dispute has to be raised within 180 days of the transaction, and for me it has been over a year since I made the payment 🙁
Please also advice how you can get your refund?
Check my post on the bottom btw I am / was an Indiegogo backer
If you would start another crowdfunding campaign I still would back Jolla for two reasons: Europe urgently needs innovative software developers and Jolla is making a very good job on developing Sailfish OS which I really love, especially since 2.0. The second one is, that I am not longer willing to support any of those Silicon Valley based companys, doing their best to monopolize the internet and user data. Keep a stiff upper lip, Jolla Sailors, even in troubled waters and don’t hesitate to ask for the financial support of your community. Although some people are making a lot of noise here, complaining that you used “their money” to develop Sailfish OS 2.0 instead of shipping them hardware, many others understood what Jolla is about: it’s the software stupid! Buying a Jolla device for its superior hardware would not be a very smart choice though 😉 Therefore it is evident that you had to develop Saifish 2.0 before thinking about shipping of any hardware devices. And since money is the problem is this case and not technical incapacity – this should not be stopping you on your important mission to build a fully fledged alternative OS.
Hi, I bought a Jolla phone on feb. 2015, I liked it very much and immediately preordered a Jolla tablet (feb. 18th.) to abandon iOS world. Unfortunately after a couple of months I found some difficulties in Sailfish OS (not able to establish ad hoc connection, not able to connect BT to my ELM327) which made me decide to (sigh) come back to Apple. I was able to sell my used phone on September for 100€ (150 less than my expense), and the buyer agreed to have also the tablet when available, to use as a Xmas present. I’m still waiting… My tablet was intended to be my wife’s birthday present, then I moved to Xmas, then I don’t (you don’t) know and I have to surely loose money at least for shipping it back and forth. Very very sorry for your problem, I like your ideas and feeling very much but I’m a consumer, not an investor, and up to today I bought “nothing” yet but lost 250€. I kindly but strongly ask you to cancel my order and to refund my credit card with my money (244€). Sincerely…
“Open letter to Jolla community: through the though times” — I think you mean “Open letter to Jolla community: through the tough times”?
This is basically proof that tablet was the last thing that you had on your mind. Why did you create Jolla tablet campaign, and instead created Sailfish OS campaign? So we can say for a reason that you’ve tricked us. You wasted all the money on development of newer version of Sailfish instead of delivering what we paid…
Exactly.
If Jolla actually cared about the tablet, they would understand that a MANUFACTURED device with old software (say Tahkalampi) is infinitely better than an ephemeral tablet with (arguably) better OS.
This means that there are two alternatives. Either Jolla is WOEFULLY incompetent, or the whole campaign actually went according to their plan, and in that case they are just scams.
Oh, and like I said – the money they got from IGG campaign were MORE than enough to make the tablets, even considering the screen and damn USB port.
What makes you think that old software (say Tahkalampi) even runs on the tablet? They’re most probably not talking about apps but software adaptation for the new hardware which is a necessity.
As unhappy as I am about the situation hardware-wise as well as software wise (see my comment below), I think you heavily misinterpret the term “software” (btw: firmware is also “software”).
I think you missed the point, the OS needed further development, whether it was a new phone or tablet, that effort on the OS had to be spent.
You might argue that the decision for a tablet, instead of a new phone was risky. We do not know the details but I think there was a promotion scheme from Intel too.
No offense, but you sound like you have no idea what’s going on.
Jolla’s product is Sailfish. This is what they are trying to benefit from, by licensing it to BRICS/Intex/whatever. So OF COURSE “the OS needed further development”, because it’s their cash cow. And the tablet is the Unloved Child which they are simply not interested in. This attitude manifested in separation of Jolla into HW and SW parts, with obvious plan to ditch the HW part. And ditch us with it.
pmelas, We didn’t paid for software development. Campaign was not created for that. If they wanted to do that, they could create totally different campaign “Sailfish OS development campaign” and they would raise money for that, but this was tablet campaign so they invested money on software. That is called embezzlement whether you want to admit it or not.
We knew that we funded software development at least partly, because the tablet was not ARM based but Intel based. “Improvements” to the UI are a different story though.
Well, on my opinion there was allthe time information that tablet will use SF 2.0. Also HW adaptation and new software features were informed. So everyone who read igg stuff should have understood the case.
Right now I’m disapointed about the way things have turned but also keep hoping that it will turn better again.
Those improvements were all over the campaign and stretch goals. People get selective memories when they grab their pitchforks.
I fully agree!
What part of “Jolla Tablet – world’s first crowdsourced tablet” you missed? It is not stated “Sailfish 2.0 OS” but a freaking tablet. Are you all blind or what?
Actually you paid part of the OS development since there was split screen stretch goal and the tablet was promoted with Sailfish OS 2.0. However, even if Jolla used 10M$ to OS development it does not mean that “Tablet money” was used for development. Company does not store their money for later use like you might do. They keep their cash flow going on all the time. Like Saarnio said in the letter that there was supposed to be 10M$ financing round in November. It is delayed/cancelled and that is the reason why wave 2 is not sent.
Actually it was clear that OS development was needed for supporting different form factor and hw architecture…
Anyway, something went fatally wrong…
something went wrong, when they spend more money for the software then they had. they should have started a software campain, told the customers abizt it and offer a later software upgrade instead of keep going on until money run out.
It was completley clear right from the beginning of the campaign that you will back the device AND the software development for SFOS 2.
No idea how you could miss that point, I did not even back the tablet, but I got that.
newer version of Sailfish OS instead of delivering tablets that were ordered and paid by us
Enjoy updated version, this so good!
so pay for yours, so that i can get mine i have already paid for.
Yes I am enjoying it. I can browse all the pictures of Sailfish OS on Google. The best experience in the world, I must admit.
Yep, i know that feel, bro
You ordered the Jolla Tablet with the SFOS 2.0
The OS is a vital part of the product so it has to be good and functional. So you paid for the hardware AND for the software.
Earning money for tablets, but spending the money for software progress. I did not pay you for an software upgrade. Was the software necessary for the tablet? I don’t think so.
Therefore, afaik, this is a kind of embezzlement.
that is correct. You can see the numbers. They could cover material costs plus manufacturing and they would still have something left, but NO, Sailfish OS 2.0 is better option for those who ordered phones several years ago, and we who payed for the tablets can only look at the pictures of Sailfish on a Google.
Well 2.0 has nice features, but also discarded a lot of useful features from previous version. I’d take the 1.0 interface over 2.0 any day.
Who would have ever spend money just on yet another tablet? Surely everyone was keen on the one and only unlike tablet running the alternative SFOS 2.0. Nothing else has ever mattered.
You are either silly or dishonest if you pretend you have contributed without SFOS 2.0 in mind. If you have actually contributed, that is – and if you haven’t, then yo have no say anyway.
> You are either silly or dishonest if you pretend you have contributed without SFOS 2.0 in mind.
Your self-assurance is staggering. Well look at me, mr. Cover Breaker. The primary reason I backed Jolla’s IGG campaign was to get a small (<8") tablet with an x86 CPU and unlocked bootloader. I needed a small tablet to be able to always carry it around, I needed an x86 CPU to run certain closed-source software that I need and that I can't just recompile for another arch (e.g. MatLab), and I needed an unlocked bootloader to freely experiment with different Linux distros.
Jolla tablet wasn't even CLOSE to be the "cheapest" choice, but since I trusted Jolla and wanted to support them, I decided "why not?". So I backed. And now I am told that I actually paid for the development of Sailfish OS and if I didn't understand that a year ago then I'm an idiot.
Now I dare you to say your clownery that you addressed to @Moo-Crumpus again, to me. Come on, tell me that I am either silly or dishonest.
Ok, most of the funds were supposed to go the the hardware, but they’ve clearly advertised Sailfish OS 2.0 as part of the tablet campaign, so not silly, but a bit dishonest here maybe.
Lol, 2M for software than no one will see without hardware. Jou just epic *facepalm*
This is fraud. They should feel the consequences for that.
I see it in my Jolla phone though..
That’s right. I have received something for my money already that makes me happy every day whenever I use my phone. At the same time it makes me want my tablet just a little bit more, even though I have to agree that I do not really need it. But I want it so dearly because I love SFOS2.0 so much.
I agree, too! Release the complete source-code, without drivers.
a) Why I should trust as consumer an closed-source?
b) Why I should spend my time as developer on an OS, which maybe dies with Jolla? So the work is lost.
c) Why I should trust on a closed-Source OS a phone manufacturer?
d) Jolla should make the money with the App-Store, Developer-Support and Hardware-Support for phone manufacturers. Or even good own phones.
PS: I own two phones. I would buy a new one if it looks good (more metal, less edgy) an offers a far better camera.
So we payed for the development of Sailfish OS 2.0, instead of the tablets. Because we payed for it, we own it. Open Source it. Completely. Every last byte of it.
Again, speak for yourself. I don’t need freaking OS, I need the device! And I bet that others think the same way as I do.
OS might update later, not hardware…
I can see your point, but I also agree with @Turbinenreiter.
If Jolla survives, I’m with you (i.e. I’ll tolerate closed-source OS as long as the tablet is in my hands).
But in case Jolla dies, I’m with Turbinenreiter. Releasing the Sailfish source code
1) does not need funding from investors and can be done even if Jolla goes 100% broke
2) is something Jolla developers promised to do a long time ago
3) is legally right, since we (the IGG backers) funded the Sailfish development with our money and have every right to get its source code, unless we actually get what we paid for (the tablets).
I agree with this one. I am happy to accept the code being proprietary as long as this helps Jolla to run a sustainable business that provides me with regular and exciting updates as they have so far.
Should the company default (heaven forbit), I would really want to see the whole code base being published under a free license at the latest.
I wouldn’t want to put my Jolla next to my beloved N9 Harmattan into my drawer for beatiful but dead devices/OSes. NOT AGAIN!
I do agree that we may see reasons for a MORAL right to ask for a more open licensing. What I don’t agree with is that you both claim a LEGAL right to demand this.
Jolla has raised more than 50 million for SFOS 1 & 2. Our 2 1/2 million don’t entitle us to anything more than our phones and tablets, legally. It is our passion and love that justifies us asking for more and even more.
We should adjust our wording accordingly, please.
There is zero chance of getting the tablet.
Jolla is done.
This is FUD.
Sechs. Setzen!
No, I supported Jolla because I think we need an alternative and more open OS that gives the user control over their devices and data. If you wanted a tablet desperately, you should have gone to the store. Instead you took a risk and funded an experimental non-existing (at that point) device to prove Sailfish OS can run on tablets, and a large part of your contribution went into making it so.
It would be nice if you could limit your posts because the signal-to-noise ratio is getting quite horrible.
+1
+1
[x] FullACK
+1
+1
@prometheus:
“I don’t need freaking OS, I need the device!”
So why didn’t you simply buy an existing device if you don’t care about the “freaking OS”?
I wanted device with that specification, plus they stated that boot loader would be completely free. Price was good, and that is why I chose that tablet. If I knew that it would be like this, I would never pay a dime.
Oh boy… I read the comments and you are ranting all around. So please, don’t feel hampered to go out for your own hardware campaign. Make a fair offer to Jolla to get a rewarding cooperation – they give you an awsome OS you will bring the shiny hardware.
What do you think?
What good comes from Sailfish if I don’t have hardware for it, and I cannot run it?
First of all, thank you very much. You shared the the main cause of problems is that the idea behind Sailfish OS is not found by the world yet, so I’d like to suggest for your next post: What is the current idea? What does it offer to the end-users comparing to other operating systems in the markets? What makes it so much better to both to the users and manufacturers?
Hopefully you can point this out with the Sailfish OS in its current stage, or achievable in short term notice with the current resources in use. If you can, I’m happy to share that idea to the world as a community member. Jolla never really asked anyone to join the marketing, I don’t mind if you would do that now as well. All the best!
+1. I completely agree what Review Jolla wrote. Now it would be a time to ask the community to help you on the marketing, as social media campaing or whatever seems possible at this time. As a owner of the Jolla phone and one of the first sailors in IGG campaing, I’m still a strong beliver for Sailfish OS and for Jolla as a company. Hang in there!
@Review Jolla
Let’s hope someone at Jolla takes this on-board
How can I push a product that I’ve never used? I have no idea how good it is to use.
Get yourself a Jolla Phone as long as there are still any available 😉
every news are getting better and better. By the look of the graph, you are able to see that material + hardware project costs less than IGG founding, so you ignored all our campaign to produce your own personal project. I will definitely not support Jolla anymore! Looking for legal way to report this fraud.
+1, it is
If you watched the announcements made by Jolla over time, you learned that when the Indiegogo campaign was launched, SailfishOS was not ready for the tablet, and so it was necessary for it to be adapted ; it is true that new features was added to the SailfishOS, and the Jolla phone owners have benefited first.
Any developer with half of a brain knows that the software is something that can be fixed post factum. It is the hardware that should be developed on the first attempt, because as long as hardware is working (and, what’s more important, EXISTS) you can issue software updates as much as you like.
ANYONE in place of Jolla who actually cared about the tablet would 100% secure the HW part first. Maybe ship tablets with raw, barely working software. Maybe stack them in a warehouse until the SW is ready. Maybe something in between (like “early access” for geeks).
If they shipped the tablet and open sourced the OS, nerds like me would be fixing bugs and adding features for free.
Indeed. If only I had e.g. source code of the Calendar, I would add everything I need from this app a long time ago. The same goes for pretty much every part of the system.
Totally Agree, one thing though, We should demand open source code.
Well they couldn’t start shipping the tablets due to HW changes until late September.
So even if the money went only for Tablet HW all the delays meant that the running costs of the company would require more funding so that they can continue.
Now if the funding they thought they would have is not there.. things won’t go well.
I fully agree.
Most of the money went to updating the OS.
Fact: they are trying to sell the OS to (mobile) companies.
So we paid for an OS update that seemed to be for our tablets, but which was really used for another product: Sailfish versions for (mobile) companies.
According to Dutch law: if you deliberately lie or use tricks with the purpose to benefit yourself (Jolla) or someone else (mobile company), it is a criminal offense.
Since most European laws are alike, I expect a same kind of law to be applicable in Finland…
When I funded the tablet and bought my phone through the campaign combo offer I knew from their communication that this money would be spent to develop the early SFOS that was an experimental linux based mobile OS for console savvy techies towards a more mass market oriented consumer product (that still would allow the devel-su to do whatever they like).
It was clearly communicated that the tablet would be the reference implementation for that vision.
Regarding the software development I can confirm that was a job well done. SFOS2.0 exceeds my expectations and makes me jearning for more and more to come.
I really hope that things will get better. I am still loving my Jolla phone.
“we are also analyzing different alternatives to solve the Tablet project and compensate to our customers for the late or missing deliveries” So you are selling jolla phones without intrest to deliver them?
Maybe you should start to answer your customer care center messages!
Lovers will love, haters will hate.
The haters are getting very loud over this, which is disappointing because this is a time when Jolla needs encouragement and support instead of accusations of embezzlement. Rest assured there are lots of us who are still 100% behind Jolla. Lovers are indeed still loving.
what can you call someone who is presenting something and waste your money on their personal things? Should be support a frauds? Highly unlikely. And if you are going to support Jolla after this, perhaps, it is time for you to visit a shrink.
“Personal things” i.e. adapting the OS for the tablet? Amazing reasoning.
You guys are spamming this comment thread over and over again with your speculation-based outrage at not getting your tablets. Do you think that you’re helping Jolla secure the additional investment they need to deliver the tablets?
perhaps, I could transfer my entire saving to Jolla because they did a very good job. Will that do?
“speculation-based outrage”
This is all we have since Jolla is silent on pretty much everything involving the tablets.
We will overload you with kisses and hugs when you bring back the unlike original Jolla that listens to its community.
Fully agree. Hope Jolla will get over this dire strait…
Indeed Abranson. I’m sad if I don’t get my tablet at all, but my main regret is not having bought two, which may have helped them more.
To me the haters are the (small) minority that thought they’d get a new fasion tablet.
I definitely sent my money for the new OS alternative to Apple/Google, and this feature alone is by very far more important than fashion, or losing €200.
If I had to regret something, that’s rather the way Sailfish lacks simple native firewalls for each app, or the default advertisement-pane that seemed to emerge at the end. But with a system that you own as root, there is always a solution.
I for one wait for the next communication here, and definitely I could pay further to help Jolla survive.
Do propose a kind of starred version of the tablet, colored differently or whatever, for a delta cost. I’m sure the non-haters will react.
And trolls will troll…
victims will be victimized
We are not haters we are customers!
no, we are haters because we are asking for our tablets to be delivered.
Jolla are the players (gonna play,play,play….)
I now see who’s the fan of Becky 😀
If software development is the hard one, why don’t you do what a lot of us have asked for: open source your apps (not only the OS parts) as much as possible.
You are always talking about the OSS community without paying respect to *the one thing which makes it great*. Which company do you think managed to survive developing gnome, kde or xfce? None, because we – *the community * – did that.
I for one would really like to have task support for caldav in the calendar app or OTR support for messages and would gladly work on this for free and I am 100% certain there are hundreds of people willing to do that because we already did.
That’s exactly the main point (among a lot of other issues). I completely agree. Please, Jolla, just do it. 😉
Many people criticize the fact a lot of money was spent into the software but don’t forget that Sailfish OS was not ready for another material than the Jolla phone at the Indiegogo campaign time.
I am disappointed too but it doesn’t mean we have to stop using our brains and refuse the truth.
I was just going to point out the same thing, without the development of the OS, there would be no OS for the tablet. But, seems like people think you can just flash a device and that’s ready for shipping. Rational thinking usually decreases when personal feelings and theories makes more sense and complies your arguments.
We funded/bought a tablet though, if they shipped a tablet with a big ‘sailfish coming soon’ sticker on it, then I could accept that but they seem to have gone the other way.
Crowd funding should carry a government warning, just like gambling
In the pitch, Sailfish OS 2 was described and you didn’t get information about it before buying this tablet? It seems crazy but if you had done so, you would have known it was not ready.
My understanding having owned the phone since launch was that the OS is continually in development so I fully expected 2.0 to arrive regardless of the tablet.
At the end of the day I bought a tablet and I’m 99% certain I won’t get it.
To be honest: SFOS2.0 was clearly communicated to be about a high-resolution, tablet oriented version with more landscape support and split-screen application support as a stretch goal.
The physical tablet was meant to be the reference implementation of that software development vison.
The priority has always been in the software development.
If I had a tablet, I’d be hacking on it right now, fixing bugs and adding features.
Jolla decided to not be an Open Source company selling Hardware, but to be a closed source company selling Software to OEMs. They used the money from the tablet campaign to make that change.
They made a very bad decision. If they made the tablets and Open Sourced the OS, the community would have done the needed improvements on the OS for free.
Out of curiosity, how many commits have you made to the Mer Project, OpenRepos or the Jolla Store? Anything you can link to?
“Out of curiosity, how many commits have you made to the Mer Project, OpenRepos or the Jolla Store?”
I was ready to do so if I had a device capable of running Sailfish OS. Or, should I be doing commits having only run my code on a VM target?
On IGG, the Tablet was promoted as the “first crowd-sourced tablet”. To me, that translates into a device running a functional, but incomplete OS that the community contributes to making complete.
Though, when the phone was launched the OS was marked to be still in beta.
This was a huge turn off for many who were making reviews since yes.. it had bugs. No one will make a review 3 – 6 months after the device is launched when the staff and community has fixed the bugs.
When a customer is trying to make a decision about a device he will google reviews and see those 4 months old reviews of a buggy software that was hastly put together.
I believe that is the reason they wanted to make the OS solid before putting it out for reviewers and users.
I am not sure the business model you propose would work… Jolla are mainly software developers, their software makes them special and that is what they are trying to sell. If instead they just made so-so hardware and open sourced their os for the community to develop, what would prevent a more experienced and efficient hardware manufacturer to use their OS? How would Jolla survive then?
Yeah because no OS vendors include FOSS packages in what they deliver with their OS.
Companies have software engineers that work on the things that the companies think make them unique or give them a market advantage and can either do the rest themselves or farm it out in some way. If you have limited resources and an enthusiastic community (well, what was an enthusiastic community a while ago), getting the community to do some of the development can help a company reaches its goal.
> what would prevent a more experienced and efficient hardware manufacturer to use their OS?
Elementary, my dear Watson. Release the source code under a custom license which forbids commercial use of the OS (no matter whether the code is modified or not), AND also sell the same code under commercial license to the manufacturers. There are numerous examples of this approach succeeding, Qt being one of them.
ScumCored, you are right on the spot! This would indeed solve the open sourcing vs. profitability issue, and guess what? That’s exactly what it’s being discussed in Jolla at the very moment. You can read about it in the community meeting, also they are discussing of hosting the code somewhere else (if things go south), so that SFOS will be maintained and survive.
*ScumCoder. Damn my tired morning hands making typos…
That would be fantastic!
Can you provide a link to where one can read about this, please?
Here’s the meeting log:
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2015/mer-meeting.2015-11-19-14.30.log.html
+1
@al1guillet: Don’t try to crash the party with facts. Prometheus and Scumcoder spend their lives spreading lies about Jolla and the tablet campaign. (Remember when prometheus accused them of spending the crowdfunding money on the new hardware company?) They simply chose to ignore the truth and spread poisonous rumours. They *know* they’re lying.
What are they lying about The crowdfunding money for the tablets wasn’t spent on the tablets.
It’s completely idiotic. They should have shipped the tablets, period. They had the money to do so. Nobody would have cared that the OS was still buggy and missing features. The community would have started hacking on it immediately and improved the OS.
Jolla used our money to build a closed source software product. We gave them our money to ship us a piece of hardware running Open Source software.
They screwed us over because they thought they can make more money by selling the OS to OEMs, than by selling hardware to us.
It’s obnoxious.
what would you say if they were shipping you a tablet without OS?
I would take it, it’s better than a kick in the ass
+1 I would port android on it or any other OS. There is WebOS, FireOS, Ubuntu…. You name it.
They already HAD a tablet version of Sailfish by the time MWC took place. Maybe it was buggy, maybe it was slow, I don’t know. The point is, we wouldn’t get a tablet with “no OS”. I’m strongly inclined to think that it would be much better than Kaajanlampi which I got with my Jolla phone. And since people somehow tolerated Kaajanlampi, I’m sure they would live with whatever OS version was at MWC.
Couldn’t have been that buggy, it won ‘tablet of the year’ or something
Though the HW was different back then.. they had to change the PCB and other componens which required HW adaptation.
Anyways.. if you notice the that you have to change the HW of the device.. and you estimate that the delivery of the device will be delayed because of that..
Will you lay off your employees to save the money for the HW or keep the employees working for the OS while the new HW configuration is decided.
Sure they took the risk.. though for them it probably didn’t seem to be a big risk since they had been running the business with invested outside money for couple years and nothing really had changed except the exceptations of the investors.
SO if they wanted to play really safe.. they would have lay off most of the staff when they noticed the first problems with the HW.. they would have kept some people working to get the HW done and do the SW for the new HW. Every other improvements for the OS would have been frozen.
In fact, I highly appreciate the fact that the sailors tried to create a mature and usable product – even though this might have killed them financially. I did not want to have a semi finished product.
They HAD an OS running on it. If it were buggy and missing features – they just had to open source it and all the hackers who backed the campaign would have fixed the bugs and added the features. For free.
They made a bad strategic decision. They want to sell proprietary Software to OEMs. That’s why the spent the money on the OS instead of the tablets. But OEMs don’t want their OS so now they are dead.
If they made the tablets and open sourced the OS, they would still be in the game and we would have what we payed for.
Maybe the OS they had running on the updated hardware wasn’t in a usable state? Possibly it would be better to hold off until they have a reasonably finished OS so the tablet’s actually useable… Not everyone is happy to compile their own kernel or write their own drivers to get certain features working. Maybe you’d be happy with a non-working tablet, but the more casual tinkerers and people who wanted a more-or-less finished product would then be on here complaining about paying for a tablet and getting an unfinished product. Imagine the terrible reviews it would get from the tech press who received a tablet that didn’t work – that would be extremely damaging. And there are probably far more people wanting a nearly finished device than those willing to roll their own OS like yourself.
If all you were after was a tablet, why not buy one of the millions of Android tablets out there? It’s the OS that makes this device different, so why get so peeved that they spent money developing it?
@Turbinenreiter: Lying about the “fact” that Jolla is using the money from crowdfunding for the new hardware company (which isn’t even operational yet). Lying about the “fact” that Jolla could have given exact dates about the shipment schedule and for some obscure reason deliberatley chose not to (“bad communication”). Now lying about the “fact” that Sailfiosh 2.0 was not part of the tablet project and all we funded in 2014 was a piece of hardware, not the OS. Just to name a few lies.
The same is true for you, of course. The tablet crowdfunding campaign was for a tablet that runs Sailfish 2.0. Sailfish is the central part here, otherwise we would have simply bought any existing Android tablet, right? It was clear that Sailfish needed a lot of work to run on tablets – not only the GUI (which mght be the smallest issue), but the hardware adaptation and a re-write of components that simply assumed they’d run on a phone. The (OEM-)hardware is only a means to use and show off the new OS, as the Jolla phone was only a proof of concept for the original version of Sailfish (see: bad camera, battery issues, SIM-holder issues, somewhat disappointing hardware for Q4/2013,…). It’s strange now to turn things around 180° and claim that it was hardware first, not software – and to claim this only after you saw the relation between HW and SW costs.
It’s strange that you fight for a company who just wasted your money in a bad strategic decision.
You have no tablet and will never get one. Jolla will die and you will never see Sailfish OS again. All of this could have been avoided if they had focused on getting the tablet out there and open sourcing the OS. We would have gotten a buggy OS, but we would have fixed that, together. But Jolla decided to not go together, but rather use our money to appeal to OEMs.
Now we got nothing.
You say it’s about Sailfish OS 2.0. Well, guess what, they used the wrong strategy to build it. Now they have an OS, but no OEM us buying it and the people who payed for it don’t get to see it.
Jolla is dying because the CEO took bad strategic decisions. He wanted to make the big buck by selling to OEMs, instead of making smaller, but sustainable bucks by actually shipping the tablets he promised.
So.. what does bitching about it really help?
You lost the money (maybe).. get over it.
If they bankrupt there is no way you can get it back.
The CEO of Jolla does not only want to make big money, he needs to do so. For only 100 sailors/employees at an estimated low cost of 100.000€ per year and person (including wages+ social security, office space rent, IT infrastructure cost etc) Jolla needs at least 10 million € per year for continuing operations.
Even if the tablets would have an gross margin (after production, distribution etc costs, but without software/hardware development costs) of 20% they would have had to sell/crowdfund tablets worth 25m€ and not 2,5m$ to fund the company for only 6 months!
So making smaller bucks is no option for Jolla, they simply need partners paying for Jolla’s work -whether those works are [called] consulting, hardware adaption, licence fees or whatever.
You are truly special…
Wow man, you truly are something else…
You are f*** sick man. 1. They created campaign for tablets 2. they spent this on software development (personal projects). AND WE ARE SPREADING LIES? You really need to performed brain check, because there is definitely something wrong with you. Oh one more thing lawyer ossi. In legal term, how do you call a person who is withholding assets or using them for their own benefit, but in the same time they scammed persons that are fund them for totally different thing…?
Tablets need software.
Software the community could build if it had tablets.
Now it’s software without hardware and nobody will ever see it.
Nobody will ever see the software? I see it (Sailfish 2) at this very moment in my Jolla phone.
If I were you, I would refrain from such comments… A considerable percentage of Tablet backers did not (and do not) have the phone. So when they read comments like yours, it only makes them more angry (and rightly so).
I am not afraid to tell the truth. If people are getting angry reading the facts I write, just let them.
This has nothing to do with “the truth”. The point is, HALF (51%) of people who funded the campaign received NOTHING for their money, because they do not have any device to use the SFOS on. And people who have the phone but did not back the tablet now have the new shiny SFOS2.0, which was funded by the tablet backers.
So bragging about how you enjoy the new OS on your phone you are not “telling the truth”, you are just being dickish towards people who feel robbed.
It was funding, not buying. And it was funding a tablet that hardwarewise existed. So we knew that we were funding software development. Funding means investing. And investing is always risky.
Just to be clear, some of us did buy.
In Aug-Sep, Jolla (shop.jolla.com) accepted pre-order Tablets for end of Oct delivery (and collected the funds).
Has anyone who pre-ordered (not contributed to the IGG) tried canceling their pre-order and requesting a refund from Jolla?
Are you seriously trying to stop me from telling that I like Sailfish OS 2.0? And you of all people telling about “being dickish”…
what a shallow man you are. calling us dickish? you are a freaking parasite that got OS for free on our expense, and now you have courage to call us names?
@prometheus I’m not calling anybody dickish. Read carefully my answers, please. I’m just wondering why ScumCoder called me dickish. And I’m also a tablet contributor, does that make me a no-parasite? You really should think a bit before you post.
@prometheus, @scumCoder,
you really are dick from the internet, aren’t you?
http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07
http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-11-19
@jollakooth
@HubaMcJuhes
Wow guys, you don’t cease to amaze me. Okay, once again for those who didn’t understand on the first try.
People say “what’s the point of developing software if there is no hardware to run it on?”. You answer “Well *I* run it perfectly on my phone”. Again: 51% of people who paid for the tablet DO NOT have the phone. HALF. When you tell them that Jolla did everything right because YOU have it, it translates to “I’m good, so you can go fuck yourself for all I care”.
Seriously, your egoism is almost as obnoxious as @Beethoven’s (almost). And you even have the impudence to play offended and to post frigging Dilbert strips.
@ScumCoder could you write something about your own egoism? You seem to know so much about everybody else. Just take some time to read your own posts with equally twisted attitude.
You can’t sell flawed product to normal customers and just explain them “just wait the community will fix the problems”..
Yes you can, this is pretty much what happened 2 years ago. And things went rather well.
And also there are maybe ~2-5% of “normal customers” amongst us. The VAST majority of backers are geeks who are willing to tolerate flaws in exchange for certain things, like openness.
Some sources say it didn’t go so well. They expected to sell more devices with more polished OS. Reviews were not so good partly because of unfinished OS.
Maybe they wanted to have more solid OS this time to make the partners more interested. The OS needed to be ready for partners to sell them in bigger numbers.
Anyways this is not the issue.. the issue was HW changes (and what else..) that cause ½ year delays which caused ½ years more costs in paying the costs of running business and having 100 employees.
Since you rely on outside investor money and if that money stops coming what can you do? You don’t have the money anymore to deliver the tablets when they are finally ready for it.
I agree.
There a plenty of x86/x64 tablets you can buy and develop for today, why do you or ‘the community’ need one from Jolla? If your argument would be right, nobody would need Jolla to exist and develop another tablet (largly based on an OEM design).
And why would one care to buy a phone from Jolla? Just choose from those you can buy and root already. And then put your version of Android/Cyanogen or Ubuntu on it. You and/or ‘the community’ could develop anything for it including the UI you want.
So again: why would anyone care for Jolla and what they are doing?
Why did you, me and all the other contributors and buyers care for the Jolla tablet?
and there are plenty out there in the wild…
Oh .. i will go to Apple store and ask for a discount for iPad because I want to buy it without OS.
@ossi1967 Still waiting for the discussion to go on in the FOSS page where you started it nicely. Also, please do note that the open-washing in the beginning of the tablet campaign is a fact, and may be argued exactly in the ways it’s done here. I’m surprised it wasn’t brought up already in the letter, especially when seeing a link to Techcrunch as well.
you’ll never get it. He is a troll. The only thing that you can expect is “rubbing salt on a wound”.
and ossi is drinking the koolaide , laced with lsd and vodka
that explains everything. 😀
To get that right: The money for manufacturing the tablet was plenty, even after display problems and such. But you decided to found Sailfish 2 development solely on the tablet backers, instead a the company asset it is.
How on earth would have that kind of business plan worked if the tablet raising would not have overfounded by 400%? There was not even a remote chance to finance SF2 given a “only” 100% crowdfunding at all.
And whats with the hardware anyway? Again no answer if the main stock of tablets have even be ordered / produced / payed at the factory.
Well the problem is that the schedule for Tablet delivery is almost ½ year late.
So if things had gone like planned they would have had enough money from the IGG campaing to deliver the tablets in the summer. Since then they have had the running costs of the staff and business in general for almost ½ year.
Now had they got their fincancing this month there wouldn’t be any issues. That didn’t happen so there are issues.
@taleteller: Crowdfunding was only part of the tablet project. In fact, the original goal of the crowdfunding campaign was deliberately set far too low so both the crowdfunding campaign as such and the overfunding could be used for marketing purposes. 400% overfunding looks great in press releases, but it’s still far from covering the total costs as the graph shows. But then again, tablets weren’t meant to be financed via crowdfunding alone. It was always expected that they’d a) generate loss and b) be paid for by the company’s regular budget. The reason for the project was not to sell a profitable product, but to have some hardware to show off the scalability of Sailfish OS, which means: to show off Sailfish 2.0.
Indeed.. there are not many companies in the world that make mobile DEVICE business really profitable.
Indeed. In the mobile devices world it is only Apple (95% profits) and Samsung (10% of profits) All the other account for -5%.
+1
Nice to have you back, @ossi1967. 🙂
Why not make some money selling a second round of Jolla phones ?
My phone is 1 year old and I would happily buy a replacement. So would many others, especially now that Sailfish 2.0 runs so smoothly on the phone.
With the extra cash from phone sales, deliver the tablets so that people who paid upfront do not feel cheated.
While all this tactical firefighting goes on, hopefully the December funding will come through. Rolling up and down with the waves is part of every Sailor’s life 🙂
Yeah, totally agreed. The OS is killer, I love it, but damn I would love to replace the phone. My screen is broken and the battery is fucked and I would pay whatever amount of money for a new phone with some increased specs.
I would LOVE if they did a deal with Fairfone to get the OS on that hardware in return for some kind of profit sharing.
you can still order a new Jolla phone for €199
I can’t. I live in the US and they won’t sell them to people who live there.
If you know someone from Europe, you can let them ship the phone to you, I’ve seen this happen. The downside is, you won’t get any official support.
Contact me at Gmail, I’m in the US and have one that I’m not using.
Just saw your response. I picked up a Google Nexus 5 and installed Sailfish OS on it today. In fact, I am posting this note from it.
“Out of stock” for smartphone and accessories.
Super idea. I subscribed to the campaign of the Tablet, I have no phone. I would be willing to buy it if that serves to save Jolla… and get the tablet. If Jolla and Russia give us a good sign I would be happy to buy the phone with the new operating system.
My thought exactly.
A special Jolla Edition of the Fairphone and/or a Jolla brain for the PuzzlePhone that may very well cost, lets say, 50 Euros more for a fully supported Jolla license would fullfil my dreams and would probably be a quick and easy way for Jolla to have a new reference phone without getting involved in HW design again.
Both the philosophies, of FairPhone as well as of PuzzlePhone are perfect matches to the Jolla ideals.
I hope there will come in new fresh money for Jolla. The time is running fast… but the Jolla phone and tablet are still a great piece of combined (!) HW and SW which I am loving to use.
What tablet?
Some of us got the Jolla Tablet, remember? I,m not one of them.
you lucky bastard 😀
I’m not lucky, bastard maybe: “I,m _not_ one of them”
I backed within the first minute, so yes, I am a lucky bastard 🙂
Well guess what, I backed within the first minute, too. When my order was complete, the IGG counter was showing “32”. Not that it helped much.
Then you now have a true collector item if they will not ship more Jolla Tablets. I was one hour late 😉
Thanks for sharing the info: it was needed to feel that you care about the community.
Instead of ‘losing it together’, let us know if we can be of some help in smoothing that out.
It is a sad moment, especially when you realise some of sailors had to (temporarily or sometimes permanently) leave. SFOS is a great tool, a great idea but it is also great to see people fighting for something which should be unfeasible, unrealistic but had become idealistic, then an adventure by fools, and then something palpable, and finally a true reality.
It is difficult to be part of a community and not being more informed, aware of the difficulties; at the end, you are a company needing money! And you cannot share the whole picture at all minutes.
Please do your best to inform us and we will try to do our best to understand :p
And please … survive 🙂
From My point of view I was lied to.
Like many others i paid for a tablet, delivery and add-on for larger memory.
What have I received nothing!
OS does not mean nothing to me as I can not use this without hardware!
It seems there will be no tablet a no money back.
It is a shame but to be honest a company which deceives its customers and fans deserves to parish.
Looking forward ubuntu touch and KDE plasma
+1
+1
And what good is a tablet without an OS?
Ok, I’ll be honest here.
1) yes, I’m deeply disappointed in you, Jolla. I’d have loved to have my device in my hands now. But I know that’s just not possible.
2) No, I’m not so delusional to think that an OS-less device wouldn’t have incited the community any less as it has over this debacle. So, yeah the money was also needed to develop the software. And from the images I can see, it looks great.
3) I hope that there is a solution to all this. That somehow you can get the funding for the production of the tablets needed for the Indiegogo campaign.
4) I also hope that from today going forward, you’re going to be more open to the community. More honest communications. even if it’s a blog post of 5 lines, in which you state where we are now, and where the trend is going. Because it was incredibly insulting and disheartening to be hearing this important news through third-party channels, while you had an obligation to your community to keep them informed first-hand.
Also, these kinds of problems with the financials should’ve been known before to the community. Something like “Guys, it depends on our funding negotiations, when we will be shipping the tablets. But we will ship them asap.” is more honest than “Because of issues shipping has been delayed.” And then you can spend some time in explaining that the OS needed to be upgraded in order to run on the tablets. Thus explaining to the Scumcoders in the comments-section that no you can’t deliver a hardware device without adequate software.
I also agree, that open sourcing the OS would’ve alleviated some of the problems you were facing now. But I understand that you’re in the OS-business and not in the HW-business, thus you can’t fully open source it, without it hurting your ultimate bottom line.
Well said!
I wished Jolla would open source the OS. Could even be dual licensed where the open source version is not allowed to be sold/used commercially.
To all those people feeling cheated. It was pretty clear that you also funded the software. Also notice how it says funded and not bought. Just wait and see what happens. Jolla could not have predicted this to happen and even if they had not spend any of the money on software this still could happened. Also it would have been majorly stupid not to work on the OS. Just imagine what the reviews would have been like with a unfinished OS.
To all the sailors. I really hope you make it! And I hope that you will better communicate with your community and maybe accept our help in open source contributions (make those apps open source). Btw i would be willing to join a subscription based model for updates or other perks. That could be a way to be less dependent on outside investors and thereby be able to communicate more/better.
Well said, indeed, to you both.
+1 to the subscription model idea
+2 for the dual licensing idea
I believe in you and Jolla!
Thank you for giving honest news and being open about difficulties.
Making software art frustrates… in so many levels currently.
Thanks! It is clear that the OS needed many improvements to become usable with tablet (and other bigger screens).
I really do hope Jolla get through their financial difficulties.
Maybe it’s a little too early for post mortems but the alternative mobile OS market is still a very small niche market. In my opinion Jolla need to focus on and target that market and deliver what that market (we) want and forget about being a mass market alternative to Android. You need to establish yourself and walk before you run and the average mass market customer simply isn’t looking for an alternative to Android anyway.
None of us underestimate how difficult an objective it is to make Sailfish an alternative to the dominance of Android and iOS etc. Even BlackBerry who still sell devices in the millions appear to be on the edge of giving up with BB10 and moving to Android. As for Microsoft and Windows Phone we all know the story there and the immense amount of money they’ve pumped into pushing Windows into mobile devices with far from outstanding success. So yes, forget world domination for now Jolla, know your customers and market and deliver to them… then look to the future
I agree. There is a small, but reliable niche market of tech-savvy people who want to own their phones, not the other way. And when I first heard about Jolla in 2013, I was sure that this market is exactly what Jolla is targeting. (Especially since they EXPLICITLY said that they are NOT going to compete with A and G). I was expecting to see a Neo900, but with 50 developers instead of 3 and with more resources than a couple hundred thousand Euros of donations.
There is no way to run a sustainable business model based on developing one device per year being bought by up to 10.000 people in the nice market.
Jolla must find ways to accommodate some sort of a mass market. I believe the BRIC cuntries are a perfect target for this approach.
Nevertheless does the SFOS need an active community. And there needs to be offerings with an SFOS experience without partner spaces and restrictions, i.e further iterations of reference implementations.
As Jolla wants to and should concentrate on OS development rather than device design, I beive patnering with the Fairphone and/or PuzzlePhone people to create an alternative SFOS edition of their designs would be ideals to address the needs of the nerdy niche market that we are.
On the IGG tablet page with larger letters:
“Experience the world’s first people powered tablet, running Sailfish OS 2.0”
See that there ? “Running Sailfish OS 2.0” of course they would use part of the money to develop SFOS 2.0 for the tablet.
They also mentioned a tablet
the best thing is, they always have small group of supporters that sill support they bad decisions, approving their lucid behavior.
Some of the people here doesn’t seem to support the company but still throw their money at them 🙂
Unfortunately
And that’s what they were working on…
Priority makes a huge difference! The right approach would have been to manufacture the tablets in the first place, looking forward how far the surplus money gets you in developing the software. Delivering it, going the rest of the way together with the community.
Instead they pushed all money for software on a hardly existing device, while being lazy with hardware concerns and ignoring the community. Finishing up by declaring broke only days after offering discounts on their phone.
Wrong approach yeah, but since the HW got delayed by almost ½ year.. should they have just stop everything until the HW was finished so they would not spend any money on anything else productive.. like finishing the OS.
If they need the tablets money to develop the software, what did they do with the $50M VC they raised? If I have to pay for software, I want to own part of that software, i. e. become a Jolla shareholder. If I only get the tablet, I pay for the tablet and that’s all.
Come on. There is 2.0 and 2.0.
What was done for tablets and what was done for (mobile) providers?
We don’t know because we do not get ANY answers.
Like many others I am very disappointed that:
1. I haven’t gotten my tablet yet.
2. Transparency and communication have not lived up to my expectations.
I really hope I get my tablet, and I really hope that Jolla pulls through and becomes a long term, viable, successful, option as an OS.
Personally I would be perfectly comfortable to pay for an SFOS license and/or support to continuously fund development of the OS in the future. Preferably on other vendors’ target platforms e.g. Nexus, FairPhone and/or OnePlus.
I know that there are a lot of people that are disappointed and disgruntled right now, but seriously:
1. Do you really think the current situation was intentional from Jolla’s part? Really?
I don’t think anyone at Jolla wanted to be in this situation right now. Perhaps bad business decisions were made, it’s always easier with hindsight, but personally I think they made the best decisions they could provided the information they had at the time.
2. What did you think you were getting into with the tablet _crowd_funding_ campaign?
Have you actually read the Indiegogo site FAQ? Especially the question “Does Indiegogo Guarantee Perks?” It clearly says:
“By contributing to a campaign you are supporting an idea, project, or cause you care about and want to help make happen. Like anyone getting in on an early-stage project, you accept the risk that the project may experiences changes, delays, unforeseen challenges, and it’s possible that a project you fund might not come to fruition.”
Possible failure of the project has always been a calculated risk! Always! From the very beginning! And it was clearly stated by the simple fact of it being a crowd funding campaign and not a finished product you could buy in the store. Yes it hurts, especially since we are so close now with a few tablets already delivered. But the fact that some of you cannot accept that this is a real risk disappoints me since it’s resulting in very inflammatory comments. Man (or woman) up. Be an adult.
I will continue to support Jolla. There is definitely room for improvement but I hope Jolla pulls through these dire straits and that tablets will start shipping. And I hope that there is nice weather and smooth sailing once the storm has passed.
+1
Hello,
Can you tell us how many devices were ordered/pledged for through the IndieGoGo campaign, and how many of those have shipped so far?
Thank you.
Regards,
Aryeh Goretsky
Hi goretsky. Indiegogo campaign had little less than 10 000 contributors for the tablet – the first batch was shipped about a month ago to a relatively small group, and the second batch was in the works before we faced this financial challenge described in Antti’s blog.
Well I hope you guys get through this. I was one of the lucky few who got the tablet, it’s killer and I hope everyone here can experience it asap.
Best of luck Jolla!
First of all let me state that I sincerely hope Jolla can complete the urgently needed financial round in December.
Juhani, would it be possible to post hard numbers instead of “small group” and “wave2”? Since you guys already did split the delivery into waves, could you please provide No# of tablets for each wave? I believe this would help with community communication.
While we’re at it – not all of the people which immediately contributed to the Indiegogo were part of wave1. Could you please shed light on the selection process for wave1?
I do not contribute, but I do wish to tell Jolla that I hope for them all the best, and hope they come out all right.
I just got my Jolla phone half a year ago, had to leave my N900 when it started bugging. I’m satisfied with the phone (no phone on the market could make me happy) and hoping that perhaps some day a few features will be added to actually make me happy. Now, I’m worried that perhaps Jolla goes under and if that happens the closed-source OS is left completely without support.
I did not order a tablet, I’m not financially able to take such risks. I might consider buying it if it is some day available from a retailer – walk in with money, walk out with product – the way my phone was. Unfortunately the likelihood of me being able to do that seems to diminish. Not to mention another phone with all the hardware features the current one could use.
In June, there was a piece of news that Nokia is already looking for new partners to re-enter the cell phone business with. Their contract with Microsoft says they can return there at some date in 2016. Have there been talks about Nokia buying Jolla, is everything now only about keeping afloat until that can happen?
I guess Nokia will not take the risk of re-entering the market with niche OS. They will not take the uphill battle but go with Android. And, to be honest, that would be a rational movement.
Some kind of silent – sentimental(?) – investment might happen but total takeover – I guess not probable…
That would be great since this money for Nokia is just a drop in the ocean, but I don’t see it happening.
Thanks for the update, Antti. It’s a pity that one single key investor can spoil it for all of us. I do hope for all of you guys that Jolla as a company doesn’t only survive, but keeps growing to a point where it does no longer depend on single decisions by single investors. OTOH, of course, my primary focus is on the continuation of Sailfish (or Mer or Maemo or MeeGo, whatever it used to be called). I’m in this boat since the earliest Nokia 770 days, I’ve seen tablets and phones (and companies) come and go, and for some reason, against all odds, the idea survived and made it into fantastic consumer products. So if the worst happens and we have to say good-bye to the familiar Jolla logo and the cool ringtone – please make it as easy as possible for others (companies or communities) to continue this journey.
Looks like blah-blah-blah again.
Dear Captain, is it possible to know what are the reasons of the withdrawal of the noticed investor?
That is not normal that someone engaged himself for such an amount, and then run away so spontaneously…
In other hand, that is really dangerous, to trust and based the business to a single investor.
Hope you find solutions. maybe some people of the TJC community have some (good/bad) ideas/inspiration for you :
why not ask to nokia to make possible officially to provide their tablet with sfos too?
why not ask to BQ to sell their phones with sfos too ? (they do with ubuntu, why not an other one).
Maybe Jolla could get some money from the Europa antitrust program against a big one (google,apple don’t know which one)? I’m pretty sure that the activities of a big one, make jolla life more complicated. And we have in Europa fast nothing of good firms in this branch.
May Finland government some help to some specific firms?
make a viral campaign with the last, money to spread so much devices as it could be that people, speak about it, show it to others… (really mad, but why not?)
Find other investors under the new and really active emergent firms like netflix, or providers. and works on a partner space with them.
Hi cemoi71. Thanks for your question and suggestions. Replying on Antti’s behalf here. Unfortunately we can’t say why the mentioned investor decided to postpone the November investment, and to be honest, we are not the ones to comment on their behalf. Hopefully we get the situation solved with them asap and get on a solid track again.
My question for you is. What do you think, what opinion would investors have for the company that haven’t deliver what they started? I am not asking as one IGG backer that is pissed of (which I am clearly are), but for real, do you think that they would trust you after all of this? That devices are not delivered (not on time, but also possibly NEVER). That most of committed backers were disappointed and now ready to turn their back on Jolla. From my point of view. If I would have to inject 10Mil $ into business where people are mad and starting to abandon Jolla because of poor decisions from above, I would also withdraw money.
good luck
Ok, some people want to vent their frustration over something they have no real influence on. Understandable. Apparently a few thought they would buy some super cheap tablet on IGG or pre-order (as in “not yet deliverable”) it from the Jolla shop.
Sorry to disappoint you, that’s not the way it’s supposed to work. You financed the development of said product and as a “perk” you’d get one when it’s done. As for the pre-order people – you’ve never pre-ordered something before, have you?
Of course the money was also spent on SW development, that’s what it said right there. “running Sailfish 2.0” … a version of SW not yet released at that time.
The only thing you can accuse Jolla of is not having a crystal ball to predict certain circumstances delaying or prohibiting the timely completion of their tablet project.
I am confident they will prevail and if at all possible they will honour their promise to deliver the finished product.
Everything else people produce here is hot air and in the worst case slandering the name of a good company trying their best to make a difference.
“you financed the development of said product and as a “perk” you’d get one when it’s done”. When it is done? it will never be done, since they are constantly pouring money into something else instead of what they’ve promised. P.S. Don’t drag Sailfish into this. Yes in the IGG stated “running Sailfish OS 2.0”, but that doesn’t mean that all money should be spent on software. Please refer to the graph above.
There was even some goals in IGG that would give the OS more features.. so don’t try to say this was only about shopping Hardware.
You can buy HW from dealextreme very cheaply.
akse, please look at the graph again. Look at the money spent on OS development, and see compare it with IGG funding. They spent all money on OS, and almost nothing on hw. Only 200 devices were produced of 10000 or so…
Sure, they couldn’t spend the money on the HW because they were not able to use the HW components they had in mind when the IGG campaing ended.
Are there any companies out there that put money gained from X to safe deposit and wait to spend it on some product Y?
No, all the money they get will go to the same pool and it is used all the time.. pretty much. At least in small starting up companies.
I doubt someone like Apple uses iPad pre-order money specifically for iPad products either..
Now what happened with Jolla is that IGG money and money from Jolla Phone for example are not enough to run the company while it is looking for a bigger partner which will possibly get them out of the outside investor money.
If the company staff is like 70% involved into SW development.. of course most of the money goes to salaries which basically is then SW development costs.
Sure maybe they should have saved the IGG money they earned to make sure not matter what they can deliver the HW.. this would require more outside money which I believe they are trying to avoid even a litte bit.
I think the same happened with Jolla Phone when they were collecting the pre-order thing in May 2013. So they got a bunch of cash from customers so they could show the investors that “hey we got something in here”.
I’m looking at the graph and it looks like roughly half the money went into Sailfish 2.0. That sounds about right given the “running Sailfish 2.0″ statement – there were two parts to it, the tablet and the OS. Half the money went on the tablet, half on the OS. They certainly didn’t spend all the money on the software; and besides, what good is the hardware without the OS? Just go and buy a Nexus if you’re solely interested in hardware.
@raven24 wrote:
“Apparently a few thought they would buy some super cheap tablet on IGG or pre-order (as in “not yet deliverable”) it from the Jolla shop”
No! The Jolla Tablet was never “super-cheap”, it’s even less so now with out-dated hardware. I can’t speak for others, but I wanted to be part of something different to\better than Android.
“..Sorry to disappoint you, that’s not the way it’s supposed to work. You financed the development of said product and as a “perk” you’d get one when it’s done..”
Yes, but it’s not “done” & we haven’t got one!
“…Of course the money was also spent on SW development, that’s what it said right there. “running Sailfish 2.0″ … a version of SW not yet released at that time…”
I understand money ‘also’ spent on SW development, but in this instance it has MAINLY been spent there….
This company is all about the OS, not the devices. So when the device is delayed majority of their staff is still working. This means it will cost money. Now this is a Software company so whatelse would you ask your staff to do than to develop the OS.
So maybe they should have estimated the delays and costs and ask for more outside financing earlier.
How about learning to read graphs? The indiegogo funding covered the hardware and just a bit of software devel, so the loss has to come from somewhere else. So as always, it is more intelligent to pay your staff and try to get back on track than to deliver a product that has no purpose after that. Not all of us are software developers and handy with flashing other OSs to a device that is shipped with a semi-broken OS. So using the funds left to recover and stay alive for longer instead of paying the tablets and having them delivered now means that there is time to get another investor to jump in. The other way round would probably kill Jolla instantly. Means you have a tablet with neither warranty nor SW upgrades – where is the fun in that?
Communications have been OKish, don’t expect hourly updates! Every other week is more than enough. Do you know, someone has to sit down and actually write something? What do you like more? Getting updates or getting a new investor and your tablet delivered?
Not sure what your point is.
According to the Bar-chart, only a very small proportion of the income from the Indiegogo campaign was spent on the “Harware Program”. Around 45% on unspecified “Material Costs” (new curtains for the office?) the rest on “Software”.
From this breakdown it’s impossible to work-out what was spent on what: except that a couple of million+ went directly into “Software”, and another similar amount went who knows where….
@wittgenfrog: There’s no way to determine from this chart if the money from the Indiegogo campaign was spent on hardware or software. It could be that the hardware program was funded 100% from the Indiegogo income while the software program was paid for from a different budget. In the end, it doesn’t matter because each tablet is a loss for Jolla.
“Apparently a few thought they would buy some super cheap tablet on IGG or pre-order (as in “not yet deliverable”) it from the Jolla shop.”
Let me repeat a point that someone else made.
The Jolla Tablet on pre-order from the Jolla shop was not super cheap. There were far cheaper options available. The specs for the Jolla Tablet are not as good as other tablets selling for less and the delays have made it even more out-of-date.
You are correct that the pre-order was for something “not yet deliverable”, but a) all of their material committed to an end of Oct delivery, which didn’t happen, and b) payment was collected at pre-order time, not ship time, which is fraud if arrangements aren’t made for a different delivery date, which they weren’t.
There is a risk participating in crowdfunding. There is a reason that what you get for your contribution is called a perk and is not considered order something. I don’t know if most people who participate in these things get this, but I do. I have been part of a couple of crowdfunding efforts that met the goal, but didn’t deliver the perk and that’s just the way it goes.
But the shop.jolla.com pre-order deal is something else and brings in consumer protection laws.
Those are some true words, thank you for being a bit more rational about those issues.
Just to quash the “super-cheap” nonsense once & for all, Xiaomi has just announced a new 7.9″ MiPad Tablet, 2048 x 1536 display, Intel X5-Z8500, 2GB RAM\16GB storage. All for $157.. Now THAT’s “super-cheap”….
It also shows how out-dated the Jolla Tablet’s hardware now is….
I’m also angry with Jolla. Mostly because of their totally annoying way of communication and their attitude to stay silent about all that matters to the community until the last moment when the house is already on fire. If you really think this is a good strategy – than you’re truly dumb. Dishonesty ruins everything, in private relationships but also between companies and their clients.
On the other hand, there are some people here complaining irrationally and scream like little children that they didn’t receive the hardware and money was spent on the OS. To me Jolla always stated, that the tablet requires an update of the OS, and therefore it is logic, that we payed for a tablet and the required adaptation of the OS. No problem with that. Thanks to those “screamers”, if they could please shut up with this nonsense.
I for my part, I would also like to receive my tablet still. Maybe not in December 2015 but also not for Christmas 2016 or never. If you cannot get this solved Jolla, than also new money will not help you anymore. The community will give up on you. It will be sad, another alternative will fade away but it was the community who fucked the whole thing up. For now. I still keep my fingers crossed for you. Use that leap of faith and stop bullshiting us.
A small mistake: “but it was NOT the community who fucked the whole thing up”
As I see it this whole Software\Hardware argument is based on a false premise.
Obviously the Tablet needs an O\S, but surely you don’t start developing hardware unless you have some kind of O\S to run on it?
Sailfish was SHOWN running on hardware very early-on in the project. Or was a mule with an ARM chipset?
So the outcome of having spent around 2/3rds of contributors’ money on “Software” is that:
* We don’t have any Tablets,
* Jolla is currently “broke”
* People who contributed nothing have a nice shiny new ‘phone O\S.
* Jolla (or successor company) owns the IP of Sailfish which WE funded. We have zilch
* Even if Jolla Tablet is finally delivered the Intel hardware is already near to “legacy” status.
I’m not going to throw words like “fraud” around.
Surely a more honest process would have been to produce the Tablets loaded with whatever buggy software was around?
If Sailfish simply wouldn’t run on INTEL, I think it was a tad dishonest to offer the hardware. A more truthful strategy might have been to ask us to fund Sailfish….
I’m not sure if we were deliberately “scammed”, but this whole business leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.
In terms of the outcome perhaps part of Jolla’s re-think might involve scrapping Tablet.1 and offering us either a refund, or a discount on a different product running Sailfish.
Majority of the staff are probably SW developers (or related to that). As the devices were delayed many times you can count SW development costs to increase by ½year. Unless you layoff majority of the staff just to wait for the HW to finish.
I wonder what would have happened if they could partner with Samsung and making OS together. Samsung sells devices in volume with Tizen – they could do the same(?) with Sailfish, too…
No that ship has sailed away and there is an other OS there to compete with… 🙁
BTW. @Antti: what is the status of Aquafish of Intex? It should have been available in November and no news…
How do I go about getting the refund that was promised in the earlier blog post? I was willing to keep the faith and wait it out through all the delays, but I have no faith in a ship that’s just thrown most of its crew overboard and declared itself in debt.
As they said the refund issues will be solved in December. I belive if they will get the funding round successfully completed in December.
Then they can start shipping the devices and also start refunding to those who don’t want the device anymore.
Though if the funding fails and everything else fails too you probably lost your money.. thats the downside of crowdfunding..
+1
Thanks, Antti, for sharing:
> We’ve already had many interesting discussions with potential new partners about using Sailfish OS in their own projects.
> I’m looking forward to announcing the results of these talks soon.
> […]
> Soon after we have overcome the first leg in this battle, we’ll come back to you about concrete ways to support us.
Honestly I only see one possibility for Jolla to continue as a successful business:
1. Ensure HW vendors and partners are building devices with Sailfish OS
2. Give (paid?) support for integrating SFOS on their devices
3. Open source as much as possile from SFOS and all bundled native apps
4. Let the Community work on enhancing the open sourced parts of SFOS
5. Keep the absolute minimum work force at Jolla to support all above points
If that happens be sure that you have me as a C++/QML UI developer contributing to Sailfish OS!
+1. Despite my comments, I am still willing to contribute if you ever open the Sailfish source.
+1
And here is another C++/QML developer ready to contribute!
Making SFOS open source would be the best attempt to reconcile Jolla with their community.
Calm down, friends.
Inhale. Pause.
Exhale.
Inhale. Pause.
Exhale.
Now: The tablet, as a product, always consisted of hardware and software. Surprising to some, software eats the majority of the total tablet cost. However it is inherently a part of the tablet product and should not be factored out.
Looking at the cost graphs it appears to me that Jolla severely under-priced its tablet – which is a good thing when you are a tablet customer. It turns out to be a bad thing however when you are a tablet *backer*. Jolla gets bitten now by aiming way too low with the Indiegogo tablet price, and all us tablet backers suffer with them. Most did not get their tablet, others (including me) are very annoyed with the unfinished software part of the product.
But I do not see a valid reason to feel betrayed. Sure, I could shout “betrayal” in order to underline my general unhappiness with Jolla’s actions and lack of transparent communication. But I would miss a point then. First of all (and this has been stressed often enough already) Indiegogo provides an opportunity to *fund* a product instead of *buying* it. Funding is inherently more risky – just ask a venture capitalist. Secondly, to circle back to my first paragraph – a good product, to my experience, takes 30% Hardware cost + 70% Software cost. Which makes the Jolla tablet under-funded.
One could even argue that Jolla granted to the tablet backers a hefty share of the 50M venture capital Jolla has been receiving, in order to finish the (software part of the) product; backers only needed to account for the hardware cost.
Don’t know why software costs a so prominently attributed to the tablet project: after all software improvements are not constrained to this here tablet but are an investment in future devices. For non software people: MS developed Windows way back, and they kept on developing it until we are at Windows 10. Every version built up on the previous – be it code or ideas.
Nicely put. Thank you.
I still hope Jolla will make it (and I will get my Tablet).
But I also hope they will involve the community (geeks) more.
I hope they’ll have an 2.0 SDK soon. And that they opensource applications so we can contribute as soon as possible.
It would be nice to develop QML applications that can run on both SailfishOS and KDE 5.
We need an alternative OS for mobile that we (users/community) can tweak for privacy and security.
Good luck with the head winds, and that you might tack till you reach your destination.
Thanks for the post!
I completely understand your situation and have no problem with it at all. Many of the tablet backers mind you used their money for developing the OS – but that is the thing I like! Today’s mobile world works like, I will pay for the hardware and the software will be paid somehow through ads and in better case via app purchases. But that is not a good way… Like in the old times, I want to pay for the hardware and software at once, and not then. This way Nokia worked before and Jolla works now.
Keep the good work 🙂
Let me tell you how much I ADORE hearing from the folks “seeing it happen on their phones.” Lovely for you, really. I wish I were in the same boat, but 530 million of us here in North America never had the chance to buy the phone. Maybe that would have improved sales numbers a little. So we took the next best opportunity we had, which was your Tablet project. Forgive and forget, I know, but frankly if I’m not seeing the hardware I’d like to know the name of every Jolla exec involved in this fiasco so I can blacklist every company you spread to from here on out. No better than Elop, in my opinion.
Quick question : how much of this “software development” chunk we paid for was actually necessary to get the tablets running, and how much of it wasn’t ?
Without this information, I can just assume you spent most of our money on something unrelated to your commitment.
If funding problems persist, any chance of direct issue of shares (with voting rights) to tablet backers/pre-orders?
I feel, that from the moment that Marc Dillon left Jolla it was clear, that we’ll never get our tablets. From that moment on, all they post here were lies. That’s why we felt so uncomfortable with what they say: We believed in lies.
SailfishOS & Jolla never had a chance to survive because the acting people didn’t understand how to manage things.
They are fantastic developers. But they are incapable managers.
My support to Jolla ends here. A lot of money lost. But also a lot of things learned! Crowdfunding is just gambling.
It’s not my call, but I think it’s too early to give up. And also don’t be discouraged by one bad crowdfunding experience, there are plenty of good examples (Bragi’s Dash, for example).
Disappointing, all the silence and this is what we get, enough with the crowdfunding is not amazon. Honestly, is there a way you can at least start processing refunds, considering things are somewhat in limbo indefinitely. Refunds can be a free jolla phones.
I’m just going to say one thing to people that post comments against investing on software when buying the tablet:
– You pldge for the tablet = You pledge for Software
There’s no tablet without software, and there’s no progress without developing an OS that CAN run on tablet (Sailfish 1.0 couldn’t). Dot
Don’t say that you haven’t pledge for software because you did, and you knew about that as tablet was sold with 2.0 OS.
Ok, mistakes were made. Now we have to move on:
1. Is it possible to ship the tablets with the OS as is?
2. In order to help reduce your Software development costs, consider a paid developer program or complete open sourcing the codebase so that volunteers could help improve the software
@hasteur the OS is ready, tablets have already been shipped with this OS version.
@ossi1967 having received a tablet let me state that you are 50% right 🙂
The OS is not yet ready, it feels worse on the tablet than the first SFOS beta felt on the Phone back in the day. There’s a TJC post where I lament over the current OS/Tablet shortcomings.
Dear Mr. Saarnio,
Thank you for posting this message here. It gives at least some additional information. I do hope you will come back to this post to also address the concerns that it clearly raises.
What I would like to know is this. What is the current status of the tablets in terms of manufacturing? I mean: are they basically finished, but is the manufacturer holding them back because some payments are still due? Or is there still a lot of manufacturing to be done in order to complete them?
Depending on this situation, what is needed to release the tablets? Many backers still need to pay for taxes. If everyone needs to pay a bit extra to release the (nearly) finished tablets from the factory, maybe some are willing to do so. In short, would problems be solved if you raise the Shipping cost with another €10 per tablet? It should be possible to try this if the money can be paid into an escrow account so there’s no risk it ends up paying for the gas bill (i.e. funds only released to Jolla when the target is met and tablets are shipped).
Also, what does this mean for Jolla-Adventures? It seems inappropriate to invest €1 mln in other companies when you still have an obligation to your existing customers. It looks like €1 mln should be sufficient to finish the Tablet project.
Looking forward to an answer to these questions as well as those raised by others!
I just want to express my admiration to a true leader. If any other CEO had half the guts shown here most companies would have never faced the disasters they did.
On a separate note I want to join the side of those offering any kind of help. People we need to pass the word around and help the world understand that not everything is IOS or Android there are alternatives and they do run on their devices.
Wishing the best for all the other sailors as a sign of respect I am going back to my Jolla as a main driver.
For the lovers
See below the recently posted tekst by Antti Saarnio
(removed from the former blog comments) in his new job at http://jolla-adventures.com/
“Antti is an emerging market and technology business adventurer, an entrepreneur and a strategist. He’s speciality is to create and grow companies: the bigger the agenda – the better; more impossible – the better. Antti’s core skills are in growth company and investment management, business strategies, financial modeling, and management models. His special talent and interest areas include M&A, fund raising (+50MUSD raised), growth company management, and working in emerging markets.”
Offering lots of money….:
“Each participant will get up to US$200,000 seed financing. In addition, all participants are directly connected with our financing partners Eagles Fund and China Merchants Group who govern funds over US$500 million, and who we personally know and trust. The goal is to get your team also growth financing after the Program.”
Thanks for this. Don’t bugger it up (!!)
One day within the coming weeks I’d like to get some more info about the spun-off HW division though …. ask Carol – she knows what I mean.
“… Meanwhile we are heavily working to get our funding in place in December … [and] to solve the Tablet project and compensate … for the late or missing deliveries …”
(a) ARE YOU CONSIDERING NON-DELIVERIES as a solution ?
(b) … I find it crucial to your credibility and your story of milestones to BETTER DELIVER ! ( not because I’m “a dog, lusting for his promised bone” )
(c) Don’t use so many stressing adjectives like “heavily working on” … you’re working on a solid solution a it’ll take a couple of weeks to get clarity / raise further fundings 😉 …
Humm … just getting it from Techchrunch :
“It seems likely the Jolla hardware business is now very much shelved, despite the intention it expressed in July to create a separate company to continue building devices.”
Dear chief
Although angry i appreciate this laconic but sincere post.
I appreciate too the timid attempt by juanhi lassila to come back in the fray question’s and outburstes’s flow
I urge all perkers (and prebuyers) to try to pacient again…
Unfortunately, at the present time
it seems that we can only cross our fingers and hope in investors….
Let’s keep calm: our (understandably) angry and poisened words result useless if not harmful and delete t he hope silent about the good outcome: delivery of tablet with Sailfish OS.
A dispassionate recommendation to the whole Community: in this delicated phase of negotiations we can’t sum to mistakes of management (of assessment management and communication) also our useless mistakes: we are comunicating too and then we are negatively affecting the course of the project
Let’s wait the decisive December.
To our captain, in addition to real-time updates, we ask to ask to involve this community in every phase in which it can be involved. And ask him to considerate Community a adult and precious resource (core value) rich capabilities passion and desire to take the third way (“not A nor G”).
Captain, let’s “people powered” and not….. people (im)poverished
Are all you people crazy? IT IS KNOWN that it is hard to enter this market. That is why Android and iOS dominate and Microsoft with all its resources and money is trembling. That is why we supported Jolla to have an open alternative. They are at a tipping point of being possible or being nothing. We are lucky JOLLA even exists. I don’t see any other contenders to satisfing your demands. FirefoxOS, UbuntuTouch etc are not going to make it. Jolla is literally the last boat. Stop being touched in the head and realize we might lose all of the choices that are being taken for granted.
+1… and 1 more…
Hi,
You are correct this market is not easy. but maybe we should have been told that jolla tablet delivery was down to investment from other places and not just are contribution – i would heavy thought twice about paying for delivery and add on and just paid upfront for tablet more of a ‘i support you gesture’.
p.s. actually ubuntu touch is doing better then Jolla!!
phone is available from different manufacturers and a tablet is in being developed….
also look at plasma mobile – they doing interesting things.
http://plasma-mobile.org/
Real open Source . not no BS
Oh my God, thanks a LOT for this link. I looked at Plasma Mobile a year ago and sort of passed it by as something too raw to use. But wow, they sure did HUGE progress since then. If they’ll keep the pace I think soon I’ll finally have what I was dreaming about for a long time
Nice but looks like Android..
Maybe 1-2 years away from a real product?
Well interesting to see how it goes.
Imo ubuntu UX seems better.. more gestures. But other than that I dislike ubuntu.
just interesting development. to me the key is its open and not locked down to Apple , google or Windows 🙂
I agree, this should been said from start, not presented like this.
Oh really, did you support the Vivaldi/Spark tablet? How about Ubuntu Edge? Because I did and they drowned too. So if you’re lucky you won’t be really disappointed when you you get that email that says it is too hard and we can’t.
Indeed. Say no more!
And: my new phone will a FairPhone (https://www.fairphone.com/2015/10/22/jolla-community-working-on-sailfish-os-for-the-fairphone-2/).
> FirefoxOS, UbuntuTouch etc are not going to make it
Those are some very bold statements…
+1 from me too
I hope they manage to get out of the financial “bad waters” (omg, I also used sailing analogies… sigh) so that I will get my tablet, and will see this “fantastic OS”.
You are right about one thing: it is hard, but what choices are taken for granted?
What are you talking about?
Last boat for what?
The projects you talked about are full fledged FOSS, Jolla isn’t, you should probably compare it with Android (despite the VM, it still uses a linux kernel), and well I have an Android phone and it works quite well.
I don’t agree with many policies they made me swallow, but you cannot say that it doesn’t work well.
Key information missing as ever. What is the date the December funding round closes? If successful how soon before all tablets ship? What protection for us as creditors? Does funding rank before or after us in terms of insolvency?
When are you going to provide the next update?
A commitment to a weekly update please.
> What protection for us as creditors?
Zilch.
> Does funding rank before or after us in terms of insolvency?
Copypasta from @ericdupond:
[…] in case of bankruptcy roughly the creditors ranks are:
1 – Tax office
2 – Social security
3 – Employee
4 – Banks & Providers
5 – Customers
6 – Shareholders
For other questions, I’m pretty sure they don’t know the answers themselves.
Can I now reply by asking you to stop, because you hurt my feelings 😉 See your own comments earlier.
+1
Kyllä tuon nyt saatana saattais kertoa suomen kielelläkin, ei kaikki osaa englantia.
Sad to see that some here have so much negativity. I have not received my tablet either, but considering the current circumstances I am OK with this. If Jolla survives this I will gladly buy more products from you. Keep up the good work! Keeping my fingers crossed!
As others already have suggested I would recommend going for a licensing model where we can subscribe to get support for using the OS on HW from other manufacturers (like Nexus etc).
I doudt I’ll ever see this tablet, but JOLLA can you please give me my $20 back that I paid for shipping?
A BLOG POST SAYING “YES” OR “NO” would do wonders in helping move beyond this mess.
that would be a NO , they “took the money and run “
I did not buy the tablet via the IGG campaign, I had “bought” it on the page. Since I have canceled the order, I would like to know when I will receive my money. No word regarding this aspect in the blog.
I want my money back.
In this situation it’s probably the best strategy to show some patience … (or do you need this money to pay your outstanding bills??)
Did you pay for the pre-order through PayPal like I did? They have a dispute process for items not received.
Dose not apply in case of bankruptcy as ail creditors are blocked until résolution for good or bad.
yes, I did, but considering the current status of Jolla’s finances, I do not think that this would be a feasible approach.
I have already looked into the possibility to file a law suit under European Law against Jolla as a German citizen. And it is possible to file a complaint here.
As they have file for creditors protection there Will bé no effect except that you might be enlisted (if in addition you file also in Finland with the commerce court)as a créditor and that you Will bé noticed of the progrèss of the procedure.
Note that I was talking about PayPal’s dispute resolution process, not trying to get a refund from Jolla.
I have requested a refund through Jolla support and initiated a dispute through PayPal.
Sailors, keep on sailing! I wish you the best. But I’d like to give you my 2 cents here:
1. Don’t attribute all of the software costs to the tablet project: as people said already that they would prefer their tablets with an old software – which I think is a bit ironical – and foremost: sotware enhancements are not constrained to the tablet but positively contribute to all (present and future) hardware devices – phones and tablets as well (running SFOS 2 on my Jolla).
2. Please stop producing hardware: I personally like the design, but you’ll never be able to compete with all the Nexuses and Samsungs of the world. Make a decent software and license it for hardware firms. I want to see lots of Sailfish devices from all different brands! (That’s a wish – but hey – xmas’s coming …)
+1
+1
+1 I would like to have both. But if forced to pick just one, it’s the software (Sailfish OS).
Well, I hope Jolla would be able to sail away from this financial storm.
People in comments are talking about embezzlement. In my opinion, it was not embezzelment, it was a gamble. What Jolla wanted? Money. There are two sources – crowdfunding and investors. You need to sell the tablets to the people and prepare the software for investors. For both of things you need money. But the investors would give the money for the completed product. So Jolla planned to use the crowdfunded money to make the software, get investition and use it for the tablet. Changed the order for killing two ducks at once – if everything had gone right, you would get BOTH the tablet and the software with investors getting software, unlike the case of tablet money spent on hardware with only hardware delivered and Jolla without any money to make software after. Jolla took the risky way.
Probably, the investor figured it out and declined the contract on purpose of getting Jolla in debts to buy the company in future.
They willfully used funds given to them by us for making a tablet to develop software for the advancement of their company. So the fraudulently converted our property while they were in lawful possession of it. That is by definition embezzlement.
One cannot gamble with, take risks with or use for his or her own use, money given to them for a specific reason.
Any finish lawyers on here? Does the legal system in Finland allow for a class action or something similar?
I think it was so that in Finland only consumers (which is actually us) can make a class action suit against a company.
But this will happen under the consumer rights official with the jurisdiction that the official has.
So it is nothing like they have in the US. I haven’t heard of any class actions suits happening in Finland so far..
Anyways I don’t know how this would help. If the company is out of money, they cannot pay for anything. If the company goes bankrupt they probably cannot refund anything either.
I love my Jolla. I wish SFOS nothing but the best. But seeing the upper management use the company’s name for something that CLEARLY isn’t related to anything Jolla at all felt shady at first, now after the announcement it feels like the final nail in the coffin.
Seriously guys. Would you invest in a startup company where the top level management has enough time on their hands to start a substantial side business – and use the only brand name for something entirely different and for their own, not the company’s profit?
It’s so sad to see all that happen. I’d love to believe differently, but this awfully seems like management leaving a burning platform.
Thanks for the past two years. It was a fun ride, and it was different. I still hope everything turns out well, but it sure doesn’t seem like it now.
Hi,
Jolla is sailing through troubled waters, but even if they overcome the storm, i see a bleak future for them.
They got a lot of visibility with their indiegogo campaign and managed a breakthrough with a larger audience. Unfortunately all the communication after with their backers was, in my opinion, badly managed and will bring problems if not well resolved.
I backed the campaign mostly because of the perspective of the “people-powered tablet that running SFOS2.0”, but expected the two will be together, not just one. And also because i would like a better outcome than the one from KDE-based Vivaldi Tablet.
I understand the problems behind the development. Selecting the HW would be easier, checking for compatibility and of course the problem with the display did make the time and costs slide. On the SW, get all the drivers and make them play along on OS level, make SFOS adapt to a different platform altogether wouldn’t be simple and has all the hallmarks to go wrong, and also, much of the teams must have been focused on building SFOS 2.0 for the phone (the SW on the graph could be more enlightening about this).
What we have now is a SFOS 2.0 good for the phone (as people are saying, i don’t have one) but on the tablet is still on beta or version away of awesome, and the tablets stopped on the assembly line (or still scattered on the components manufactures), which means that someone that goes look for the result of the campaign will see that it: fail, no tablet running SFOS 2.0 on the hand of the backers. A failed campaign is not equal to utter disaster, there can be more campaigns launches with other goals and still gather capital, but this case, with 480% funding and $2,576,853 raised, failing is a bad marketing signal.
This need to change, either by Jolla alone or with their supporters.
It is important a company that creates a different system with values as data security, openness and community focused. Being a European company means it understand better our values and mentalities than Apple and Google.
It also means it got it harder to grow and get a better market share, so it’s a niche company and it will be during a long time. It needs to focus on be a good alternative and gather a good rep among their target audience so as to break into other publics.
Perhaps they should try harder establishing contacts with another European companies that create smartphones and tablets, eg. Wiko, BG, Fairphone, Kazam or LAIQ (Portugal, still launching) and take advantage of the support the European Union is trying to establish in innovation and products.
Also, Linux Foundation is home of Tizen and a great synergies gathering point of contact for companies that promoting linux and open source (MeeGo integrated in Tizen and Mer sharing core linux).
The bleak future for Jolla is near but doesn’t mean the end, the time for choices is upon Jolla, the supporters and the community.
I, for all intents, am a investor in the Jolla Tablet and therefor off Jolla, and would like my bet to be fulfilled but depending on the choices ahead i might join the community.
Jolla and Sailfish OS is not about software and hardware, it’s a way of life. It’s about making the world a better place.
Happy I was part of it. Too sad there is no community.
Can anyone verify this? I believe that the indiegogo campaign makes us “investors” and not “customers” from a legal standpoint. Therefore we can sue under Finnish law.
The term is “contributor”, can’t really say about legal equivalence, but see:
>Indiegogo Help Center> After you contribute > What-happens-to-my-money-if-a-campaign-fails
and
>Indiegogo “Terms of Use”
Don’t have a clue about Finnish law.
+1
Above comment is by mistake
Hi,
i backed this campaign to support sailfish OS.
I’m aware of the risk. The mobile-market is dominated by two big players, who earning money there and microsoft, burning tons oft money over years to establish their OS. The chance for jolla to do the same job with a few bucks and a cool OS on a well designed tablet wasn’t that big. On the other hand they had managed to develop and deliver their phone in this market and suvive that stunt!
This in mind, i got the risk to lose 240€ for the chance to get a nice tablet with a real Linux on it.
I hope, sailfish OS at least survives this crisis.
Thanks for the update, probably the most honest till now.
It may sound weird, but I am not one of those pissed about investing money on the OS, or judging if the management made right or wrong decision, probably the battle was just too hard, and the situation where you stand now is the best achievable, despite all. I seriously don’t know.
Anyhow, if everything goes awry, are you planning to release the OS as FOSS?
Please do so, I think it would also help people who lose their jobs to find a new one, maybe in another company that picks up the development. If the company dies, let its product live on 😉
Sorry people who don’t understand Finnish. I can’t write good message in English so I write in Finnish. Fortunately Jolla is Finnish company.
Kiitos viestistä ja siitä, kuinka avoimesti tuotte tilanteen esiin. Itse Jollan käyttäjänä ihastuin pari vuotta sitten SailfishOS:ään sen kotimaisuuden ja yksinkertaisuuden + suoraviivaisuuden + kauneuden ansiosta. Ihmettelen sitä, miksi kriitikot toistuvasti sanovat että tämä on vain “nörteille” sopiva käyttis. Minä olen vain tavallinen tallaaja, jolla menee helposti sormi suuhun tietsikkamaailmassa. Mutta Sailfish on todella hieno käyttis enkä muuhun vaihda. Haluan tällä kannustaa teitä koko Jolla firmaa kestämään tämän tilapäisen koetuksen. Minä ymmärrän ja olen ymmärtänyt tämän tilanteenne. Ymmärrän, että tämä ei ole teidän vaan julman bisnesmaailman syytä. En lahjoittanut rahaa vuosi sitten saadakseni tablettia (en ole tilannut sitä) vaan sitä varten, että tarvitsette pikkufirmana rahaa, jotta meillä olisi jatkossakin SailfishOS, mikä tahansa laitetta käyttäisimmekin. Olisin valmis antamaan hieman lisää, jos tietäisin, kuinka antaa, ja miten oma kukkaroni sallii. Olette upea yhtiö, ja on liikuttavaa, kuinka isänmaallinen (huom! sana: isänmaallinen) firma Jolla onkaan (moni olisi kai jo myynyt firman ulkomaille). Jatkakaa samaan malliin hienolla asenteella. Tämä tilanne ei loputtomiin kestä. 😀 Jään pitämään peukkuja puolestanne… 🙂
Just to get the point – you people really backed the project for the “great piece of hardware”?
Come on be honest – it was clear from the beginning that this isn’t about the hardware – you were able to buy android devices with better specs at the time, the campaign started – it was always about getting SailfishOS on another kind of gadget.
I didn’t get mine now as most of you – if I did I might complain about the state of the software running on the tablet – some reviews say so – then you might be right and the money was wasted, but stop mourning about the share between hard- and software – hardware can be bought very cost efficient from third party manufacturers (if it is ethical correct to buy cheap components from Chinese sources is a different question …) but for software development you need your own manpower and that is the expensive part especially in Europe …
Don’t get me wrong I’m not amused about loosing my money (it’s a lot for my tight budget) but I want to keep to the facts – and imagine the discussion here if Jolla would have delivered a tablet similar to an android layout with a SailfishOS in alpha state – you just have to read through all the update threads here in the blog 😉 – the same people are complaining in the same way about software issues (even when they are features, not bugs and they just don’t like the changes …)
No offence …
Maybe, you should convince me that reason for investing was sw. Please stop. I will repeat, in my case it was intel soc, poi density and open boot loader. Whether you like to accept it or not. Kde plasma mobile look quite interesting, and so I Ubuntu touch, so in my case it wasn’t sailfish. I hope that you will stop convincing me for opposite.
This is probably the update that we should have had a few months ago but instead we were offered smoke and mirrors. In retrospect have to wonder if this was to stall earlier requests for refunds on the promise of a solution – all until the company hits a brick wall.
There have been many comments about supporting crowd funding projects. This was actually one of the first I supported and the one I actually had most faith in given the apparent heritage of Jolla’s staff from the Finnish tech industry. The others which were all smaller projects (all tech related) and seemed to be more garage / kitchen counter projects have all come through with excellent well presented and functional devices and all but one on time- the one that failed provided weekly updates until delivery!
Had there been more honesty about the project’s goals the funding goal may not have been achieved. All the posts in IT media about the project focused on the tablet – and even those people who say they were more interested in the Sailfish Os still paid for a tablet. When the companies focus to developing sailfish over and above the tablet changed they should have come clean and offered refunds.
They have done a disservice to investors who may in the future think of supporting the Finnish tech industry. I invested having strong family connections to Finland and wishing to support Finish tech and also knowing the Finnish work ethic and than Finland has one of the lowest corporate fraud rates. The misinformation that we have been fed relies belies this.
Even though the grammar is wrong – Sinun olisi pitänyt tehdä oikein teidän potentiaalisia asiakkaita. Yhtiöllä on toimintaa johti tuhoon.
I’m not one of those “lovers” or “haters”. I am, however, someone who paid for a device in good faith and has not yet received it. I’ve not reacted when I was told it would be a month late.. then two months… then three months… then four. Now, who knows how late it will be. At this point, I don’t really care about this tablet. I just want a refund. Say what you will, lovers, but I paid for a piece of hardware and not for software development. But even if this tablet somehow happens to get delivered, it’s going to be so outdated, it will be practically useless.
I’ve logged a second refund request after reading all that horse manure for excuses this Antti character spewed in his “letter”. The first one must have gotten lost, along with the tablet funds.
I lost my confidence in this project and would like to claim for refund because all the time no response or reply from Jolla team
I would also want a refund…
Have you ever considered that this last minute bailout of investor (intex?) was in their plans? Seeing Jolla being on edge financially, they just needed to delay investing round to get SailfisOS cheap if they manages run Jolla to bankcrupty.
As disappointed as I am the things seems to turn out, I really hope some good investor jumps in, before Sailfish drops into competitors hands AND possibly comes more CLOSED SOURCE.
Some quick action plans needs to be put in place to ensure worlds only open mobile OS to be survive.
Private (micro) investing round, where all investing individuals would get their shares in ‘Jolla-B’-series style? How to do that with minimal running costs?
Good luck! Hoping jolla and sailfish to survive! I hope I later also will get my tablet! 🙂
@AnttiSaarnio, you still have not learned your 10 million Euro lesson.
This is an “open” letter, so why do you take 4 days to write it to us? After many Finnish press stories about your financial troubles, starting Friday 20 November 2016…
Also, you write it, and then leave. @juhanilassila answered maybe 3 questions of all those asked, and only those favourable to your position.
So, you guys still DON’T GET IT. Yes, we’re angry that you managed the company poorly and now we are not going to get the tablet, but you still haven’t seen the PROBLEM.
You guys FREAKING SUCK at communication with the community. Honestly, look at successful projects. It all comes down to the community and communication.
Where were the frequent updates? There were none.
Where were the details on the delays and troubles? There were no details.
Where was the engagement with the community, either through blog comments or reddit AMA or Twitter replies? Again, NONE!
So now, why should any investor put money into you when they can come to this blog and read your incompetence?
Do you think they are blind? Do you think they cannot see that you have ruined your reputation in the community, and your backers are angry not only because you failed, but because you were completely opaque the entire time?
Jolla, you guys are the exact opposite of “open” and it does not surprise me that you failed because of it.
I offer you a free tip for your next business ventures: when you claim to be “open” this means you take the time to engage with the community, more than just the passing lip service you’ve given us.
Maybe one of us has 10 million Euros sitting around. On the internet, no one knows you’re a dog. If you had treated the community with a gram of respect and interacted with us, maybe you would have other investors pounding on the door to invest in you. But instead, you ruined it by being closed, cold, and unavailable at every step.
+1
I agree. I wouldn’t be surprised if investors pulled the plug because, among other things, Jolla management had proven to be incapable of managing. Why throwing good money after bad? Jolla is lousy at communicating (clearly) with the “community”. Why should they be better at that with anyone else? The court will be less forthcoming I guess.
The money is gone, doesn’t matter how they spent it. I gave it, abandoned control, I was fine with that as long as the result had been a functioning tablet. Debt restructuring restructures debt not assets or money in the bank, apparently they don’t have any, that’s why we likely won’t get the tablets.
Is there really a market for niche products in mobile OS? It looked like it but it probably was delusional to begin with. This is not a fight of an agile David against a clumsy Goliath. This looks more like a clumsy tortoise playing catch up with a bunch of Achilleses (whatever the plural of Achilles). Why would an investor invest in a losing proposition? Recouping investments requires profit. Profit comes from sales which requires demand, reasonable costs, a product etc. None of this seems to exist that much.
Business has a lot of similarity with evolution theory’s survival of the fittest. It looks like Jolla didn’t fit. Enough.
I surely won’t subscribe to a Jolla revival Indiegogo-Kickstarter whatever campaign because the world needs it. The world likely doesn’t do. There’s probably the next non Android, non iOS, non Windows, non Blackberry niche product around the corner, with access to an Android store because it will take ages to build an ecosystem from scratch. That’s a little parasitic anyway. From an investor’s point of view, why invest in something secondary or tertiary when potentially better primary investment opportunities are available?
I am sure I lost my money. That’s bad. I will get over it. Jolla does not deserve any of my attention anymore. Off they go into oblivion or sail beyond the sunset. I am not the Salvation Army. Chapter closed.
+1
And you may want to retweet this kind reminder:
Please keep in mind: no tablets = no community = no Jolla
https://twitter.com/frisdenker/status/669494501178810368
Some people don’t get it. They keep repeating “it’s about software, not hardware.”
They had two options:
1. Ship tablets with buggy software and let the community understand/deal with it/wait for it/fix it themselves. That is what “community” is.
2. Finish the OS and ship nothing. Now the community is people who can run Sailfish in a VM (not sure why).
The community could’ve fixed the software bugs.
The community cannot take the ROM and build hardware around it.
Jolla is simply another Microsoft with better PR. They’re in fact worse than that. Microsoft is a closed OS that delivers. Jolla is a closed OS that doesn’t deliver.
Microsoft doesn’t use “open”, “people-power”, “community” and “making the world a better place” for a closed-source OS. They use these things as marketing slogans that mean nothing.
When Windows and Android are free, what place is there for a closed-source, non-free OS? They only advantage it would have is if it were open-source, but it isn’t even that.
They tried to sell something that no one wants to buy. There are free, open-source operating systems. There are free, closed-source ones. This is a closed-source, paid OS. Not a snowball’s chance in hell.
The phone and tablet were proof of concept devices to get companies and punters interested but why did they go to a too good to believe Intel reference design offer on the tablet when they had a phone up and running on an ARM v7 system. Stupid decisions where obviously made by someone without having a full understanding of the down stream effects. Must have taken a massive change and costs in programming to rewrite and debug code. Why aim at the tablet market – the percentage of the market share of tablets to phones and how many are Intel V’s ARM based – BAD CHOICE. I wanted Sailfish OS first and Tablet second. Give me a workable ARMv7/8 Qualcomm / Cotex / Adreno version of Sailfish and I would be equally happy. Start with a Sailfish UI overlay any stock Android phone of a known release and then later put a full system Sailfish OS over that as things get developed. Android really does suck. If they spent all the contributions of refining the OS, then can I have a copy to flash to my phone – I would be more than happy with that solution. I just something with Sailfish OS on it. Good luck on your money hunt.
How good we all judge sitting comfortably in front of a keyboard.
Do not you realize that every poison that comes out of our mouth makes more distant the project (and investors)?
Who can (will), he’ll sue.
Others expect hopefully good news
Meanwhile operationally to recommend to:
1) channel all sharing the Community in togheter.Jolla.com
2) close the Feedback Page Indiegogo (inviting to move with a link to togheter.Jolla.com)
3) leave this blog only for official communications (hopefully frequent) of Jolla without enable comments
focofoco: “While the management admits that communication is problematic, we do not tolerate any communication about communication problems.”
Question to Antti: Is there other graph/numbers available where HW adaptation costs (drivers etc) are separated from ‘other’ SailfishOS development?
Graph above does show surprisingly log HW-project cost and cannot include adaptation costs.
That actually would reveal, from potential mobile manufacturers point of view, does Sailfish have competitive edge on others or not. (other than big A):
http://www.androidcentral.com/solving-impossible-problem-android-updates
was trying to say ‘… surprisingly LOW HW-project cost …’
Anyone backing the tablet and not thinking it cold leda to nothing must be crazy. Thats crowdfunding. But I would sure like to recive my tablet, If I don’t.. i’ll havet to buy an android instead. Whats worse, there’ll be no alternative. But, please jolla, should there be doom, do open source the os at least. Anyway, hope you manage. Cheers
I do hope that Jolla will Open Source their OS before they sink.
While I don’t believe that Jolla was intentionally scamming people from their money, their entire sailing trip was at least irresponsible.
Can someone please define “start-ups” as I do not see Jolla as a startup anymore.
This BLOG should have been published weeks (if not) months ago.
Having a crowd funding means transparency, which Jolla does not seem to understand at all.
Jolla treated the community as mushrooms ..
Kept in the dark and fed by shit.
Long story short, I believe in what you guys stand for, you did it in a REALLY SHITTY manner but I hope you take the lessons learned from it and survive ..
We’ll see if you guys now finally got it, so KEEP US UPDATED !
generally speaking, start-ups take about 3-5 years to establish themselves on their markets, therefore jolla could indeed be counted to the group of start-ups.
Have a look at this: http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2013/12/16/what-is-a-startup/
There are several definitions for start-up.
Pick one you like most 🙂
The campaign I contributed to reported “its second generation, Sailfish OS is more intuitive and beautiful than ever”, “Sailfish OS 2.0 conveniently shows all your running apps in one single view”, “Sailfish OS 2.0 works with your natural hand movements” – all statements that report it as a working product. Not ‘it will be’ or ‘developing’. The campaign I contributed to lead me to believe that they had a working prototype that had received awards at various tech expositions and all they needed money for was manufacturing.
I have ceased to receive direct mailings and have to come here for updates. I’ve reached out to the ‘campaign manager’ several times and not gotten a response. All indications point to a venture that is done.
My second comment to this blog:
There so much rubbish commented in this blog that I did not bother to comment earlier.
Now I got enough reading the bull shit.
If someone does not understand product development and manufacturing at all, please do not post complete bullshit.
You only show how stupid you are.
How one can even think that a embedded device can be operated without an OS (except state machines) and believe that the OS development cost is somehow separated from the tablet design….
I’m stopping reading and posting at this point.
I really hope that Jolla will make it through and OS will continue (even better if all supporters will receive their tablets and other gadgets).
All the best
Well,
when I decide to contribute with the IGG campain, It was not for the hardware, but for the software.
I could find many devices as good as jolla tablet at that price.
I simply hate android, and hate the way the use your personal information, like quite all other OS did.
I’m a blackberry user since a long time, so I’m used to be at the edge of the market, and I hope that Jolla could take his part in the market itself.
I asked for a refound before to hear those news about the financial rounds.
Now I can say that I would wait and see if there colud be a better solution.
In the while I’ll probably buy a Jolla phone…sorry for my english.
Some of us took part in the IGG campaign, some pre-ordered the tablet. This are complete different things. Pre-Ordering is a contract. You pay, they deliver later. Crowd funding is a greater risk, as you spend your money for an idea that might fail.
Knep on fighten!
The situation is confusing, the idea is realized, some have a tablet, the majority did not receive, Jolla has constantly assured the public that all get a tablet. Is this normal IGG outcome?
Howdy guys@jolla
May I explain you my point of view on this issue:
Me, for myself, I definetly EXPECTED an actual info on this issue directly from Jolla company as an Email. So, I heard about this issue, trouble in having financed the project, troubles in having the display get to work, and all this other not mentioned issues from online resources like heise.de and others. So, a very poor communication skill to all the backers from Jolla side. This is definitely a zero out of ten.
This shows me and additionally supports me in my point of view, that to you, Jolla, all your backers are not that important as they seems to be in your spoken and written words like in this open letter. They, the backers, just seem important in that way AND at that time point where they can spend their money to your misguided and unsuccessful project management in software dev, hardware dev and solving all the challenges which will arise out f them.
In my eyes the best way to solve this situation with view on the backers is to send the tablet to backers which have already financed them and to give them a guarantee on a rolling software update. This will gain back the trust from community and backers to Jolla and will reduce pressure on Jolla itself in my eyes.
Me, personally, I have many respect on the idea itself creating and having an alternative phone and tablet which also runs android apps. I also see the challenges this piece of market shows compared to Apple and Google; the financing and hardware vendors’ problems concerning which customer to serve first since there are not many in my eyes in this world which can produce those kind of devices. Additionally I cannot understand why to trust an investor as Jolla did, since they funded their two projects with crowdsourcing. What is crowdfunding for at this point?
I cannot spend money I do not already have, since my project is not backed / financed with backers. This is what crowdfunding is for in my eyes. And, since I am not able to handle the backers’ money efficiently to get my projects managed than that one is the prj manager or the aim and milestones are not clearly defined from project management point of view. And, since I can see that this project is not running as expected I have to pull the break and inform the involved people, in this case at first the backers and ask what they think to do next with their money. It is other’s peoples’ money your are spending on misguided / misleading ideas / projects.
So, as also the film with Danny DeVito showed: what shall’s, it is other peoples’ money.
Bad, Jolla, very bad
Why did the main invester withdrawl fr.o.m. The investment? Must have food reason?
Lots of Kool-Aid drinkers here, even defending Jolla after being taken for 200 € or more. A thankful audience it seems, if I was Jolla I’d do a second campaign, people here would invest another 1000 € a piece and thank you for the privilege e to get fleeced. Post again once you plan to give us the money back, everything else is wasted breath. Not that it will happen.
You are right. I would invest more to get the tablet.
me too, as I declared higher upwards. My aim is to have living an alternative to Google/Apple. I’d definitely buy another tablet if this could help them living.
Do you really think that Jolla is an alternative to Google/Apple?
NO.
That’s basically why most of us are so angry.
Contributing OS apps, making translations, and supporting the tablet.
That’s a community. And subsequently getting lies and not any answer.
Are you kidding?
Of course Jolla is an alternative and by far the best one we’ve ever had! That’s what the whole project is about, right?!
Who exactly are “most of us”? I’m not angry at all. And what is the logic behind being angry at people who would be willing to invest more to help Jolla and Sailfish?
Right. I would also happily put more and more money into Jolla – as long as I have reason to believe that it helps them to sustain their business and they can deliver more and more exciting updates in the pace and quality that we got used to.
The world needs an alternative mobile OS where the business model is not about collating user data to exploit.
As much as I do long for the tablet to hold in my had and enjoy – I only regard it as a nice to have perk along the way.
so basically, we have been lied to all this time.
please tweet:
@JollaHQ
Please keep in mind:
no tablets = no community = no Jolla
Well, it’s understandable how so many people here are being angry with Jolla, especially if you have already ordered and perhaps payed for the tablet.
Still I think most of your arguments are simply NOT true!
Yes, money has been used in different ways as it was needed. And, as explained in the letter, the current financing problem is due to the fact, that Jolla just lost its major investor for whatever reason. So our money has never been wasted!
Here is a really nice little company trying to be honest with its community and customers and you’re thanking them by calling them liers! That’s nothing but sad!
Afterall this could be our only hope of becoming more independent of Google’s and Apple’s market superiority and their way of handling our private information.
I hope at least some of you keep that in mind!
“In my SLUSH presentation I also explained that the Jolla Tablet delays was Jolla’s third death valley, and that we are fully determined to overcome this challenge. The very next morning after SLUSH, I learned that our lead investor had withdrawn from the November financing round (total size of round around 10M€ investment), and that our biggest problem was in fact the company’s financing and survival overall. The Jolla Tablet is of course one important item here, but now the whole company’s future was at risk.”
—What happened? Jolla Launched Asia Focused Accelerator programme Jolla Adventures. Was this something with Sailfish to do? Had the project the full consent by the lead investor? Or was it really matter? Maybe I shoot magpies. Thoughts come and go…
Was it launched by Jolla or just Saarnio & Pienimäki?
It’s a project of Saarnio and Pienimäki, not Jolla. But I understand that in these times, the announcement might not seem that logical. However, when they have started to create the Adventures program, they didn’t have any clue that Jolla wouldn’t get their funding. So, bad timing.
http://jolla-adventures.com/#Works:
“… speciality … create and grow companies: the bigger the agenda – the better; more impossible – the better.
… core skills are in growth company and investment management, business strategies, financial modeling, and management models”
Wow. Self-perception and external perception differ somewhat, afaik.
Hum. How can they give $ 200,000 seed finance for startups, backed up by ‘eagles fund’ and ‘china merchants group’ when their own startup is just braking down… My personal highlight:
“We know how hard start-up life can be. We founded Jolla in 2011 with the aim to change the mobile world. After raising US$50 million, several product launches and countless moments of despair and joy, we are equipped with huge amounts of learnings, know-how and connections to make things happen.
We want to share everything we know with your team to make you succeed.”
:O
Jolla isn’t giving a dime, the project doesn’t iclude Jolla as a company in any ways. It’s Saarnio’s and Pienimäki’s personal project. Why they cose to call it Jolla Adventures, I have no clue.
+1
“It’s Saarnio’s and Pienimäki’s personal project. Why they chose to call it Jolla Adventures, I have no clue.”
I agree an alternative to Android and the rest is needed and I am really pleased with Sailfish. So I am very disappointed to hear of these problems.
I for would be happy to risk some crowd funding to help out.
They raised US$50 million. That part of Jolla business went just fine. Saarnio & Pienimäki are professional money raisers and they really are able to help others. But was it wise to announce this in the middle of Jolla’s financing round? Investors may think that Saarnio & Pienimäki are abandoning Jolla…
And this was ment to comment @Moo-Crumpus.
CEO of Jolla didn’t surprise us today with this open letter. We already knew that the road in technology could be bumpy. Conclusions are obvious – financial problems and a debt are killing the first open smartphone. We are not specialists when it comes to debts, but from what we know – everything needed to get rid of them is money. Selling more devices could save Jolla, so saving the company requires giving a try and finding new customers. The best idea for acquiring clients that is coming to our heads is to make an amazing device wanted by everyone, working with Jolla phone only. It will help Jolla find users who will be interested in additional possibilities provided by it – no one can add parts to an iPhone.
I and my colleagues are big fans of Jolla phone and the idea of modular electronic devices. We ourselves are a startup concentrated on medical market, based in northern Poland. Our main product is Aidlab – the medical device for everyone (still under development). For a longer time, we were thinking about launching the first version of Aidlab, so why not trying to integrate our measurement board with Jolla phone – this way we will have a medical phone. This way we came up with an idea to make a little spin off the project which will be released before our main device hits the market. We believe it could be a nice side project, probably very useful for most Jolla phone users.
What do you guys think about it?
That sounds interesting. Would it be a medical other half?
Trying to attach your future to an unknown entity, in this case, Jolla? I don’t see the point to this! To address a bigger market segments with your stuff, the only choice is Android. Apple wouldn’t even work with you to allow a very close hardware integration between theirs and yours (unless it’s an App). But you can find someone already produces Android “type” phones and also is willing to work with you.
Great idea 🙂 … For better feedback you should write about it here https://together.jolla.com/questions/ … People seems to be a bit negative here!
Anyone else see this story –
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/business/13626-jolla-unable-to-deliver-pre-ordered-tablets.html
From the story:
“[Juhani] Lassila underlines that the objective of the software developer remains to deliver the pre-ordered devices. Jolla has according to him made some preparations to deliver the second batch of tablets but remains unable to announce a detailed delivery schedule.
“Jolla is hopeful that it can raise additional funding in December. It will also have to settle its disagreement with the technology supplier.”
Why is Lassila providing more details to the Helsinki Times than he seems willing to do here?
same story different day. Jolla is ready to ship, they just need to do X and then…nothing.
Bye Jolla. It is astonishing what your small team has achieved. And it is sad that you spoiled everything with your communication. Honesty would have been better than this bullshit startup talk for years.
First, you sold us a phone which had problems with even the most basic features. Then you raised money for the tablet and used it to finish the software. Well, you delivered a wonderful product, but you always remained one step behind your promises. Investors and customers (here in personal union) will always remember that.
Having found the time to carefully read through all those articles published concerning your severe situation and having noted several types of community-buy-in proposals, there’s not much more your community could do for you while you’re traveling on the far side of the moon.
From that situation I can’t even be disappointed your HW spin-off will not ever come to live. All we can hope for is that SFOS will survive.
Not interested in funding a Puzzlephone / Fairphone with no SFOS to ever make it to those devices.
So hopefully we will be seeing you again by January with the good news !
THE VERY BEST OF LUCK WITH THAT !!
d (ô_o) b
——————————————————–
What I’d be interested to know from Jolla are
1. The number of indiegogo contributors
2. The number of “purchasers” of a tablet from the Jolla site
3. The number of each of the above who have received a tablet
4. The number of each of the above who have asked for a refund
5. The number of each of the above who have received a refund
That leaves the rest as those of us who gave them the most support by trusting them to see through their well funded campaign (+ those of the Lasko accessories etc etc) and who have been let down most (in retrospect those who bailed before the insolvency notice and got refunds may have been the wisest).
Jolla crowdfunders want handholding – get a friend for that! We always complain, myself included, about bugs, which we could fix ourselves, yet do nothing about them. We complain about communication of uncertainty not being accurate. We are like kids at the back seat: -Are we there yet? -No, the road is icy and parts knee deep of snow. We might have to wait for plow truck. – When are we there? The company is busy and constrained by resources, and unthinking people expect blog posts -from a company governed by laws- – I think really they want handholding! Let Jolla improve communications if they can, but let’s keep our expectations realistic.
Do note that crowdfunders were asked to buy extra memory and tablets, by Jolla, AFTER the IGG campaign.
As for the OS, I’d be happy to help with its development, … IF I get the dedicated hardware for it (though the current licensing isn’t very community friendly either).
Jolla crowdfunders want handholding? It is unthinking for them to expect to receive timely updates? Are you kidding me? The crowdfunders are investors in the company and are owed information about what is going on with their investments.
The unthinking people that I am concerned about are the ones who collect 200 Euro each from over 10,000 people and then say “oops, we didn’t do the arithmetic correctly and we can’t deliver what we promised unless we convince someone else to give us more money.”
It is cases like this that will kill crowdfunding if companies aren’t careful. Pre-order customers like me have consumer protection laws and dispute resolution processes from their financial institutions to fall back on. Conventional investors has things like securities laws to fall back on. Crowdfunding is in a gray area and there is talk now that there needs to be new laws to govern it because of crowdfunding efforts that reach their goal, are funded and then fail to deliver.
If you would have read the comments you wouldn’t use “we”.
And, while Jolla is “fighting”, its captain started a new company promising Millions of Euros.
But, possibly there is a good explanation for that as well.
@ AnttiSaarnio, read your recent TechCrunch Interview (http://techcrunch.com/2015/11/20/jolla-running-out-of-runway-for-its-android-alternative/), in which you explained “this will have an impact [on shipping of the slate] but not a huge impact if we succeed with the December financing”. I would like to know:
1) What’s your measure of “a huge impact”? Another two months, or six months;
2) You only addressed the one of two possible outcomes in that interview. What would be you assessments on the hardware delivery for the second outcome that is Jolla wouldn’t be able to raise any funds in December? Cancel the hardware entirely?
3) You’ve spent somewhere around $1.8M on components from your graph. What was the targeted device numbers when you authorized this spending? I don’t believe these 3 questions are hard for you, you should have answers in you already. We all understand you cannot formally promise anything, we just want to see you are willing to share your thoughts so we can manage our expectations accordingly.
Hi alandal. Thanks for your questions (and everyone else too), I’m replying on behalf of Antti here. So basically the status now is that we’re now concentrating on fixing the immediate financial challenges, i.e. it is crucial for us that the investment happens in December. At the same time we’re planning the tablet project accordingly. We will have more answers during the coming weeks to all questions related to schedule etc. We don’t want to give speculative answers at this point, I hope you (all) understand this. And just as a reminder, we are now fighting for Jolla’s survival overall. Thanks again for your patience.
@JuhaniLassila
Thanks for your response, and I’m sure many people fully understand the difficult position that Jolla is in.
Unfortuantely this is a hole which you (the Jolla Managers) dug for yourselves by aparrently mismanaging the entire Tablet fiasco.
* Why on earth did you spend $2M up-front on “Material Purchases” seemingly BEFORE you had a viable software build?
* Is there now a warehouse somewhere full of the components required to build 10,000 Tablets?
* If there is, then how much would it cost (per unit) to have these assembled into Tablets?
* Assuming Jolla secures its financing, how long AFTER that will production re-start and\or the refund scheme be implemented.
You don’t need to make any assumptions about if\when you recieve funding to answer these questions.
Good question. I also am interested in those answers.
This is my second post. As mentioned before I’m just a user and do think there is a niche next to Apple etc. Even for consumers otherwise there wouldn’t exist something like LibreOffice our Wikipedia. Maybe then you can’t earn high salaries but anyway. Most of the contributors weren’t asking for another iPad or another Galaxy stuff. They wanted something nice, smart and different.
There never was a need to change that display and these other HW things, certainly not after experiences with HW development of the first phone.
After my 4. Nokia N9 gave up I switched over to a BlackBerry z30 bb10 UI has some nice features but is far away from the elegance of using my N9.
The option to have nice hardware design, paired with smart UI and !! Open-source without backdoors and data collection was my reason for contribution.
So I agree with the first question
You will need to give answers to the other questions in order to keep your backers somehow confident.
And will have to explain Your future strategy. No more communication as in the past -real communication with Your community – as mentioned in my first post – I do think people would spend for a port of sailfish to their device
At the moment some speculation, even if its very broad, would be better than no information. You need to regain the trust of your supporters / investors if you want to see the project resurrect itself. Silence / lack of information does not help build trust and confidence.
+1
JL, if anything like an extra crowdfunding could help please tell us. Don’t be put down by the insults you read here, it’s easy to see they come for a very small % of the thousand that supported you.
If the Chinese decide to cease production of the Aigo reference design meanwhile, we’ll probably never see a jolla version of it.
As @AnttiSaarnio put it:
“Meanwhile we are […] analyzing different alternatives to solve the Tablet project and compensate to our customers for the late or missing deliveries.”
“Missing deliveries” are a realistic expectation by now.
You may want to check if you could still get the Aigo x86 tablet from somewhere and try to run SFOS on it – but it already seems to be widely sold out …
^ @wittgenfrog^
@JuhaniLassila : What does the production window in China look like ?
^ … um, Juhani ?
Seems to be tougher times than expected:
http://m.digitoday.fi/bisnes/2015/11/27/jollalla-kuukausien-palkat-rastissa-osa-vaesta-sai-tarpeekseen-ja-lahti/201515747/66
Actually it is nothing new. This was been said before, the only part which gives much clearer picture is the part with the employees. The only thing is what I noticed, that we should have more information from Jolla after 15th of December.
or 2-3 weeks.
I submitted a request to Jolla to cancel my pre-order and for them to issue a refund.
Today, the request was marked ‘solved’ with no action taken. They are not handling Tablet requests. The response included the note “Our difficult situation has unfortunately affected all our previous estimates regarding Tablet shipping and delivery matters, and going forward we are unsure we can give individual responses relating to Tablet related requests.”
what is the procedure for the IGG backers to ask for a refund? I mean since this tablet will not be delivered (in best situation) before January, I would like to know my options for refund if I decide to “enable” it…
Hi Prometheus, I’m an IGG backer and I asked the help desk to refund my money this is the reply I got…
“Hello and thank you for your message.
We offer contributors two options:
Option 1: Our 14-day return policy for the Tablet, meaning that after having received a Tablet, one would have 14 days from that point in which to initiate a return.
(Read more about the policy here)
Option 2: We can take note that you would not like to receive the Tablet – effectively putting a “hold” on your Tablet’s shipment. Then, once we have shipped all the tablets, we will get back to you with more info regarding the refund.
Should you choose option 1, there’s nothing more required from you.
However, if you choose option 2, please get back to us at your earliest convenience by replying to this message.
Sincerely,
Jolla Customer Care”
They aren’t budging on the refunds, I even asked if I could just get my $20 in shipping back, and they told to sign up for option 2, I denied figuring I have better odds of getting the tablet rather than waiting for all tablets to be shipped.
Thank You for the information. I don’t know if I can call it an options…
Got my refund right now as pre-buyer, with the help of paypal.
“We apologise for the delay with the pre-order Jolla Tablet delivery. It is understandable that with the recently communicated delivery schedule you no longer wish to wait. We proceed to issue a full refund. Sincerely, Jolla”
This is great news for you, but I haven’t payed using paypal. I paid using my credit card, so it is quite different thing.
It is funny how those People who ran off from Jolla at the first signs of trouble got their money back. But we who actually believed in Jolla and didn’t want to make their situation even worse by demanding a Refund now won’t receive anything.
TVTropes would call this a “Family Unfriendly Aesop”. No good deed goes unpunished.
I would like to know, if there’s a possibility to support you? World needs an more or less free OS. I don’t want iOS and Android. It’s a shame, when prometheus and other IGG backers (I’m also one, who did not recieve the tablet yet) ask you for a refund. Prometheus and also me have no right to do so. It was not shopping, it was a risky investment. And if you need another 100 $ to manage shipping my tablet, I would be lucky giving it to you! You are doing a great job in a sea with huge waves. And shit happens. Hope, you will get managed this!
And I hope, my request for repairing Jolla phone (#24226; not working microphone) will be solved…
Again, I haven’t bought shares from Jolla. They presented a tablet, and therefore the risk of not creating tables were equal to 0. The problem that Jolla got into is because they’ve deliberately redirected funds into totally different thing, and that is OS development, and for that it is only Management fault. There were also pre-order customers who also payed for tablet and haven’t got anything…
Another thing what someone mentioned earlier, they could save a lot of money by giving the ability for community to make their contribution by developing some parts of OS and applications… There are lot of software developers that are willing to make their contribution and “fix/develop” new features.
Means that We the Jolla tablet contributors are the owners of Os Sailfish (aka software) ??
It looks like it.
Finally a constructive comment:
TL;DR: The community wants an open OS and the tablet and can help with the OS if it is open.
It is your choice what to do now.
Jolla, I really like both your phone and your OS, but please help yourself and the community by somehow making your code accessible.
We know you are having a hard time, but look at other companies who made this huge step (nginx, Qt (which you are dependent on)), they’re fine.
I am trying to push you, yes, but I am also trying to leave you some room for the decision because, after all, it is still your software (though it is being advertised as open-source), your product, so do what you think is right.
The community wants both, an open/free operating system and the tablet, try doing it step by step, not all at once. I waited for a year now, I can wait a few months more.
Find your own way. Sailfish OS is different and so are you. You will make it, but make it together with the community.
We support you.
Some more: @prometheus @ScumCoder: Don’t reply. I know what you want to say, I don’t care.
I will reply just because you asking me to…
Not sure what you thought I would say, but I actually agree with everything you wrote 🙂
Another thing: The tablet was crowd-funded and even advertised as so.
If you still don’t know that crowd funding something is risky, go home and take your time to figure out that it is.
from your comments, I can tell how smart you are. Getting the money and using it for something else is “tricking the IGG backers”, so please spare us all your stupid comments.
I really like Jolla phone, and it’s the only phone that works for me. Hopefully Jolla will get lucky with the next round of funding as I don’t want to loose this platform.
My tablet investment is what it is… a calculated risk. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t. I’m happy with Jolla and would like for you guys to stick around and keep tending this platform.
it is like I am reading a comment from those freaking Apple zombies…
I am now running SailfishOS 2.0.0.10 on a Nexus 5 and am, in fact, submitting this comnent from it. Finished the install a couple of hours ago. I really like it so far.
Now that I am more upset that Jolla botched the Tablet and put SailfishOS at risk.
Is everything working on your Saifish Nexus 5? I am sure a lot of others would like to copy you if it is not too difficult. What about producing some guidelines for others to copy?
I have not yet put a SIM card in it to use the phone capabilities, but it has worked as a small tablet so far.
I used this to install Sailfish 1.1.9.28 on the Nexus 5 –
https://doc.pegasi.fi/wiki/doku.php?id=sailfish_on_nexus5
I needed to do a wipe on my phone before sideloading cyanogenmod and booted cyanogenmod before continuing on to sideload SailfishOS 1.1.9.28.
I then used the WIP Over The Air updates section of this –
https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_hammerhead
These steps will update the phone to 2.0.0.10.
The terminal app can be weird to use. By the default, the font is too small, but it can be changed. Also, when the display fills up, the terminal text is displayed over the keyboard. You can type through it, but the display text is much brighter than the keyboard labels so it is hard to see where to type.
As well from my side:
If it is an open-source project – make it open!
Let us have the hardware with the LINUX drivers and the OS. We’ll take care of the rest.
My goal is to get rid of proprietary stuff. If I can run LINUX on the tablet with the drivers to use the full capabilities of the hardware – that’s what we look for.
Open up!
+1
As some others, I am happy to become an investor, and yes I understand the risk. I cannot offer 10M€ by myself, but give us a chance to make a pledge.
BTW, I am not sure that constantly offering your stuff at lower and lower process is going to save anything. None of the Jolla users I know bought the phone because it’s cheap (which it is) or pledged the tablet because it was at a low price.
As some others, I am happy to become an investor, and yes I understand the risk. I cannot offer 10M€ by myself, but give us a chance to make a pledge.
BTW, I am not sure that constantly offering your stuff at lower and lower prices is going to save anything. None of the Jolla users I know bought the phone because it’s cheap (which it is) or pledged the tablet because it was at a low price.
I jumped into the campaign middle of March 2015.I was more interested in Ubuntu phone at that time but they couldn’t reach their goal for crowdfunding. I found an article about MWC 2015 winning award Jolla tablet. In this article Marc Dillon said that the tablets will be delivered in Q2. And I suggested a tablet which won an award is nearly ready with HW and SW. So I spent 430$ for a phone and a tablet. I thought it wouldn’t be a big risk and even if the tablet wouldn’t be finish and delivered in Q2 I will get it in 2015. I got the phone and now is SF2 on it. I believe it’s very important to have another OS beside android and ios.
I’m not able to programming I’m just an user. For all of you who asked for open source and the community will do the rest, if it’s so simple to programming an OS, please start and if you have an good business plan I will support you.
Many mistakes made by Jolla management.
1.Marc Dillon left Jolla.
2.Display changed.
3.Tablet not designed by Jolla.
4.Bad or no communication with the community.
If Jolla will show a business plan with milestones and concrete numbers how many tablets or parts are already produced or bought than I will think about give them more money.
No money for statements like we delivery soon and second wave will be delivered…… Facts please.
oh tablet where art thou
Lately I’ve read few comments that are basically saying: “it is your fault that you gave money for tablet, and you fully need to take a risk for that…”. How dumb you must be to write such a thing? Did any of Jolla workers/managers/owners whoever said: “Look guys/girls, the tablets will cost 200$, we need for software development additional 200$, so in total 400$ are you with us or not…” (I bet that they wouldn’t manage to collect a 10% of what they’ve collected during 2014/2015). NO, they presented a tablet running Sailfish OS, so people who are enthusiasts GAVE them money using credit card/Paypal to “create”(manufacture) that tablet. Suddenly it all started. Management redirected all the money to software development (because they’ve thought that they can sell the OS) and they’ve decided to left hw manufacturing aside. THESE ARE THE FACTS AND DON’T TRY TO CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE – LOOK AT THE FREAKING GRAPH FOR CHRIST SAKE…! So for the last time, nor I or anyone else gambled on software, managers of Jolla decided to do so. We only decided to contribute financially for Jolla to making our freaking tablets. So the only one who’s to blame are the managers who brought a bad decision. END OF DISCUSSION!
As I said before, I am willing to help Jolla financially, morally and what ever is necessary (private PR, advertisements, etc.) for them to continue their work, but only after they deliver what they’ve presented and what we paid for and that are the tablets with Sailfish OS. This is only way for them to prove that I am not giving my money and effort for nothing. P.S. I bet that there are many others that think the same as me.
Yes! Has Jolla accepted such help before?
If the tablet does not succeed, they have lost the game.
Apparently. If they cannot deliver tablets, community will eventually go away and care less for them, and they will definitely have trust issues. No community/people, no money. No money, no investors. It is simply as that.
Regardless of what has transpired, I am 100% behind Jolla. I have a drawer of still working excellent phones with abandoned OS’s trampled by IOS and Android. Please don’t let Jolla end up in the drawer. Some people say there is no space for a 3rd OS – well yes there is, so long as you don’t try to be *the* 3rd OS. If the deep pockets of Blackberry couldn’t do it with the very competent, if soulless BB10 with great hardware (in the drawer too) it will take something special to make the transition to a sustainable alternative OS co-existing – not competing with the big two. Support of the community is a not insignificant factor, so stick with them, warts and all. I’ll probably never see my Jolla tablet now, and being pragmatic, if it is ‘Tablet delivered’ or ‘Sailfish surviving’, I’d prefer the latter. If I get to use Sailfish 3 on a nice high-end 3rd party phone this time next year, I’ll not complain.
Again, why not both. Deliver tablet, and you have many users that would like to see software improvements, so they will definitely want to keep Jolla alive. I will tell you from my perspective. I don’t have device to run Sailfish so why would I like to support some OS that I cannot run. If I would have device for that OS, than there is a purpose, so I would definitely be interested into keeping this company alive.
Apparently we bought the Operating system and nobody paid for the manufacturer for the tablets. So My questions are:
Were the tablets ever ordered from the Manufacturer?
Were they produced?
Is the Manufacturer sitting on a pile of un-paid-for tablets?
Can we Buy these direct from the Manufacturer and load Sailfish ourselves?
If I understood correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong).
1. NO
2. NO
3. it is related to previous question, so it would be NO.
4. Hardly unlikely (Why would you pay twice for the tablet?).
Well at least some Tablets (~200) were ordered and produced… Not sure about other ~11800…
Probably you are correct. 200 were produced and dispatched, even though I saw only 5 of them that are actually said that they’ve received over blog, twitter and other internet media…
Quote: 4. Hardly unlikely (Why would you pay twice for the tablet?).
Apparently I thought I bought a tablet but what I really bought was an operating system. 😉
I did find this posting:
http://www.heise.de/forum/heise-online/News-Kommentare/Jolla-Viele-Entlassungen-und-unsichere-Zukunft-des-Tablets/Keine-Panik-erstmal-abwarten/posting-23939509/show/
“Do not panic, wait and see …
… What has to say about the company itself.
Dismissal is actually not quite correct. Because if the contract is terminated and employees are sent to a forced leave, which is unpaid, so that’s not unusual measure at least for most startups.
Cause for concern has been around, but also the interest of potential financial sponsors is as strong as ever. The burst financing round in November could have led to the current air step.
But wait and see. The tablets are indeed given in the majority already in order and to my knowledge already paid.
Delays here are not due to financial reasons, but have to do with problems of contract manufacturer.”
Speculations?
Even though I simply cannot swallow the part where it is said that Jolla is Startup company. It has been established in 2011 and now is 2015, or should I say in less than one month 2016. They’ve produce OS and phones so they have years of experience. How the hell can somebody call them a “Startup”?
Another thing, November financing has failed (as we found from Antti). Now we wait for mid December for further notice…
is there any info on refunds? this is absolutely crazy!
or maybe even some sort of class action?
The refund for IGG is a joke. Your option is to ask for refund and wait for all tablets to be delivered (which is quite questionable – when it is gonna happen), the second option is to return it in 14 days after you received it (which in this case you pay for tax and shipping back for tablet that you already received)…
Law suit that you ask is possible, but I don’t think that it is right time for that (at least not now). Let’s wait for December to end to see their next move…
As I understood according to this article
http://www.borqs.com/index.php/news-events/news/item/153-jolla-tablet-developed-by-borqs-wins-award-in-mwc-from-trusted-reviews#
even the tablet which won the award wasn’t developed by Jolla. Am I right or do I just misunderstood.
A month ago I finalized my tablet-order in Jolla-Store and payed 68$ of Tax via Paypal for the completing of my order. As you all know, no tablet was shipped and the chance is low to get one. So I contacted Paypal to use the buyer protection to get at least the ‘tax’ back. This is what Jolla answered as part of the dialogue with paypal:
(quote)”Hello,
we invited you to the Webshop to finalize your Tablet contribution into an order. You paid for all the due fees and confirmed your final shipping address.
Due to an unfortunate situation first with our logistics provider and then the **[situation in our company], you still haven’t received the Tablet.
Currently we don’t have much clarity relating to the Tablet shipments, except for the customers such as you who have already finalized their contribution. We are in fact quite close to these Tablets shipping, as they’ve been produced and already prepped for shipping. We are looking to ship these Tablets out as soon as possible.
We’re received your dispute via PayPal, and would now like to ask you to hold on a while longer with us, as we see in your case there still a good possibility to ship the Tablet in a reasonable time frame.
Please let us know if you would be willing to wait with us a while longer – we’d greatly appreciate it” (end of quote)
…Should I believe in this and wait? Or would you cancel the payment?
It’s your call, but I wouldn’t use the refund option if I were you. Jolla is not dead yet. There is still a chance things will work out.
Even though it ships, it will be too late unless they go back to the drawing board and updated the specs. The tablet is already too old and lagging behind the market. I would return it as soon as possible and invest my money somewhere else.
Event though I would definitely like to criticize Jolla for the situation that they are now, and support other backers like me that are still waiting for our tablet to arrive, I cannot agree with you. Quad Core Intel with 2 GB RAM (if the OS has a good memory management, or should I say if the code is written properly) it is more than enough. I highly doubt that you will do multitasking such as reading book, listening music, watching the movie and browsing the internet at the same time. In this case 2 GB would not be sufficient, but since you usually do one or two tasks in parallel, it is more than enough. (If the code is written properly – objects are de-allocated after they are no longer in use…). We are talking about linux, so it is not a memory hog, My Debian that is usually doing several things in parallel have’t used more than 2GB of 16 in total. So to cut to the short, what ever you do, do not use Google Chrome 😀 😀 😀 😉
Well, the problem is most of the apps and games used on this platform will be android apps. And when you are emulating some other platform, you need better hardware. There are performance reviews of the tablet out there that highlight the sluggishness of the software/hardware – http://www.trustedreviews.com/jolla-tablet-review-software-and-performance-page-2. The tablet is already lagging behind nexus 7 which was released 2 years back.
And what browser do you use which takes less than 1GB of memory then? Lynx?
Iceweasel (Firefox) uses about 300 MB with a few (< 10) tabs.
With 2 GB RAM I used a browser, email client, etc, and emulated a virtual machine running winXp.
So 2 GB is enough for a lot of things if the OS is not crappy.
> says that a browser can’t take less than 1 GB of RAM
Looks like you’ve had too much Chrome, my friend. Try something else for a change.
http://cdn.trendblog.net/content/uploads/2015/05/chrome-logo-pacman.gif
> The tablet is already too old
For what task? Are you buying a Tablet to do Grafikal Rendering on it?
> lagging behind the market
“the market” is aimed towards idiots who compare smartphones by the number of their Cores and GHz. I suppose you are not one of them and know better?
I hope you are enjoying your Intel Pentium 1.
Don’t try to be funny, I’m also interested in the response. Too old for what task?
http://www.trustedreviews.com/jolla-tablet-review-software-and-performance-page-2
I gave them money to get a new tablet in May 2015. Not a Chinese knock off delayed by 1 year or more.
When did you do submit the Dispute?
I opened a Dispute with PayPal last week. They did not respond at all through PayPal. After close of business in Finland yesterday, I escalated the Dispute to a Claim, citing the note that I got from Jolla Service and Support last week indicating they would not be responding to individual requests concerning the Tablet. Jolla still has not responded through PayPal.
The fact that they are actually communicating with you indicates to me that it possible that you may get your Tablet.
If the amount of money that is up for refund is just the tax portion, I would probably wait it out and see if they send a Tablet.
If you end up getting it and want a lastucase for it, let me know. I went ahead and bought a case directly from lastu and I now know that I won’t be getting a Tablet. The case almost fits my iPad mini, so I’ll adapt it to fit if I can’t find someone with a Tablet who wants it.
I did it last week, too. Jolla responded after 7 days in the described way. I really don’t know what to believe and not. But I responded with “OK, I will wait with you until the end of the year”.
When I go to my shop-account, I find the two other tablets (wave 3 and 4) in my shopping cart, ready to complete and pay tax.
Can anybody confirm, that the finalization of orders is still going on? Do you also have your funded tablets in your shopping-cart?
If yes: Is this just a trick to get more money (“tax”)?
Using “buyer complaint” on paypal (I know no translation for the german word ‘Käuferschutz’, in the meaning paypal will shelter the buyer in case of not receiving the paid goods) I received a refund as former pre-seller within 2 days.
PS: jolla paid the refund on november, 30th.
As I said before, I would wait till mid December (since they’ve said that they will give us true answer of “what’s next to expect”)… It is your call.
i can give you answer now , eggspect nothing
This is a partial repeat of a comment above. Someone asked about installing Sailfish 2 on Nexus 5. There is more discussion of this in forum.jollausers.com.
I used these instructions to install Sailfish 1.1.9.28 on the Nexus 5 –
https://doc.pegasi.fi/wiki/doku.php?id=sailfish_on_nexus5
I needed to do a wipe (through TWRP) on my device before sideloading cyanogenmod. I also booted cyanogenmod and confirmed it worked before rebooting to TWRP and sideloading SailfishOS 1.1.9.28.
I then used the WIP Over The Air updates section of this –
https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_hammerhead
This involves running a lot of shell commands through the Terminal app on the device. Running those commands will update the device to 2.0.0.10.
I wish that Jolla had done a crowdfunding effort just for SailfishOS with ports to a smart number of existing devices instead of what they did.
@benaryorg
@stoft
@akse
@morpa
I have read comments under this blog Post (and a couple of previous) and I find it strange and irritating how the same discussions are repeated again and again. One of them is that each time someone mentions refund, several people say that it was “crowdfunding” and you should be ready to receive nothing.
Well for the 10000-th time: some people did not participate in any Crowdfund. For ex. I bought the Tablet from Jolla’s web shop. Yes it was called a “pre-order”, but in case of a pre-order the money is collected at the shipping time. And Jolla collected it at the order time. In this case, if the shipping date is postponed, the company *must* come to agreement with the Customer on the new shipping date. Jolla didn’t. (In fact, Jolla didn’t even inform me about any delay. I got any information only after I found out about this Blog).
even if you were in IGG Crowdfund, we haven’t gave permission to Jolla to spent all the money on sw, nor they’ve mentioned they will. CF was about tablet with sailfish OS, not the new version of Sailfish, so please stop posting a bullshit. I do want to see my tablet and Jolla to continue where they left, but reading those stupid comments are irritating me to the max. If you guys want to let the tablet go and donate this money to them, fine. But don’t troll other users. You have imgur and 9gag for that.
Ooohh, you’re irritated? It’s hard to *think* you’re right and see other people don’t want to agree eh? 🙂
I don’t know who you are replying to, but please, before screaming about bullshit&co, just read the indiegogo page or watch the presentation video (especially around 1:05) of what you’ve contributed to, you can’t miss the “Sailfish OS 2.0” label everywhere, it’s obvious that it’s part of the campaign, so please…
It’s like your daily “full refund” speech, I wonder where you’ve seen that Jolla is going to steal the taxes.
Oh I’ve done that part my friend, but you also missed complete video about tablet, or you are simply playing dumb.
Who said about tax? We paid for tablet + shipping…
And yes, I want a full refund in case that they they’ve decide not to deliver tablet. It is my right, because we have paid for a freaking tablet + OS, and not OS itself.
*they decide not to deliver (typo error)
Sad , but they lied and lied again , they said they were getting ready to ship , ship what , there were no tablets , so what were they pretending they were going to ship ? A bunch of lying scumbags that took the money and gave us nothing . This is the last campaign Ill support , and I had 3 on order , with many more once I had a product to test .
Exactly. I don’t know why we were not informend by e-mail? We have to dig for information and check this stupid blogs every day to get new information. I don’t have time and energy to check the blogs and various webpages. I expect to be informed. The last e-mail I got from Jolla was on August 20th telling me that pre-orders are open???
You may want to state your ideas and suggestions here, too:
https://together.jolla.com/question/123255/issue-1-jolla-survival-plan-failure-is-not-an-option/
There are also some links with interesting background information that could help you decide how good the chances are that all tablets will be shipped. I personally don’t know, of course.
One question not directly regarding the Tablet, but does anybody choose the LastuCase perk and received it?
I haven’t gotten my LastuCase yet. Much use I will have for it now that I will never get my tablet. Maybe I can at least have a refund for this at least.
I’m very proud to own a LastuCase. Don’t know for what it is worth without a tablet. Maybe I decide to store some slices of salami or cheddar cheese in it.
Because the size is 8” and i can always try to tweak it to fit another tablet. Besides, i remember someone comment that the case didn’t fit correctly with the final sketch of the tablet.
Is there a comment policy against mentioning SailfishOS on other devices? Someone asked about it, so I posted about my experience with it, however those comments have been “awaiting moderation” all day. Everything else that I have posted has just gone through.
I guess this is a test to see if all of my comments are being held.
It turns out that not all of my comments need moderation. Interesting.
You have to “prove yourself” twice: first when you post your first comment, and then when you post your first comment with an URL. Your next comments won’t be premoderated.
I had posted a half dozen comments before without moderation, including comments with URLs, before I saw “awaiting moderation”.
I will never again invest on any startup companies,thank you Jolla
This rolls ever-onward.
As far as I’m concerned Jolla’s Team was (to be generous) over-optimistic about the whole Tablet\Sailfish 2.x project. Consequently they have completely failed to deliver anything. Sailfish 2.x on ‘phones hardly counts.
I’m a bit surprised that they have suceeded with the ARM version, but failed on INTEL, given the roots of Sailfish in various INTEL-related efforts.
Thinking back, I realise I did wonder whether a new tablet could be produced for the amount raised. The price is comparable to that of tablets w. similar functions, though, so I didn’t think of checking Jolla’s figures. One way or the other, I have yet to understand how this is or isn’t misappropriation. Sfsg, and the part that attracted me at least as much was the promised communication style, crowd input etc. On that, Jolla failed early and thoroughly. So I am disappointed but not surprised that this reflects a broader failure. I’d be very pleasantly surprised if subscribers get our tablets. Good luck to all the good people who worked or still work at Jolla!
Received my FULL refund just this morning ! I kid you all not.
I got fed up with all the BS from this blog and even more from all information which was not givin’.
So after reading in the comments that someone had received a refund via paypal, I started demanding my money back too at support.
I got over 20 BS mails (I guess I send double of that amount) of first waiting when all tablets where shipped etc. before a refund would be given, but checking with my legal counsel I was 100% this was not legit.
So when I started mentioning legal action, at first I received the standard “copy paste” same answers, but I kept hammering. Which resulted in FINALY receiving my money back on my paypal.
Did lose a little on paypal fees and conversion .. but still got back 95% of my Indigogo amount I backed in November 2014.
So if you want your money back.. start hammering support with E mails, point out that some people DID get a refund, so the should give you the same treatment!
Like I mentioned before, this is the WORST crowdfunding project ever. If Jolla had been more open / transparent I would have taken my loss. But by being such horrible asses thinking to be better by NOT informing their backers I would have gone the full monty to get my money back even if that mend to fly into Finland to mr. Anti Saarnio to confront him with his own words JollaHQ posted on Twitter “It will be late but I guarantee you will get it”.
Mr Anti Saarnio, you never replied my tweet, you kept us in the dark and fed us by shit.
But 1 thing is for sure, you will harvest what you have seeded.
For me this is closure, never again an Indigogo crowdfunding project I will keep with Kickstarter. And IF I ever see the name Jolla again I will use all my energy into informing everyone about this awe full project !
NEVER AGAIN !
It is easy if you pre ordered and payed via Paypal, but I have been IGG backer and I have payed using credit card, so this is not simple for us…
You obviously did not read my complete post.
I am also a backer via Indiegogo and paid (obviously) via credit card.
Refund can only be done by Jolla via PayPal (don’t know why) so just read my post and start hammering support with e mails about demanding a refund.
Takes a while but it worked for me !
Hi Mikael, can you please forward your conversation (sent mail and reply from Jolla) so I can also apply for refund. Today is 8. Dec, and they still didn’t tell us were they will give us the tablet or not…
if it is not a problem can you email this on antropine@gmail.com
Thank you.
Or to upload it to some cloud service so it is widely available for all of us who want a refund. Who wish to stick with Jolla, I don’t mind and it is their choice, but I am tired of waiting.
I got a refund over as well over the weekend.
Got notification from PayPal on Sat then email from Jolla this morning (I think – I was in middle of putting on a sporting event over the weekend and that time is a blur).
Used SailfishOS on the Nexus 5 throughout the week and continue to like using it more as I become more accustomed to it. It will be very sad if the botched IGG deters people from using SailfishOS.
Did you have to write several messages to Jolla to get your refund?
No, I had almost no contact with Jolla regarding the refund. In mid-Nov, I asked about the possibility of a refund. A week later, I requested a refund and got the “we aren’t responding to Tablet requests” e-mail.
At that point, I initiated what is called a “Dispute” on PayPal in the US. PayPal wants you to first try and work things out through messages on PayPal. Jolla never responded there. Just under a week later, I escalated the Dispute to a “Claim” for non-delivery of goods. Jolla had until 10 Dec to respond. On 4 Dec, I got a note from PayPal indicating that the money had been refunded. On 7 Dec, I got a note from Jolla indicating that my refund request had been closed.
Note that I paid for a Tablet through a pre-order sale and I was not involved with the IGG. If I had contributed through IGG, I would not expect to get any money back.
BTW, just to clarify on the “not expect to get any money back” comment. I have been involved with a dozen Kickstarter/IGG-type campaigns. About half of them have delivered what they were supposed to. To me, contributing to a campaign is done with hope that they will succeed and be able to fulfill on the perks.
When Jolla announced the pre-order, one had a choice to pre-order from their website or contribute to the IGG. That seemed odd, but maybe they didn’t see the difference.
also you can post separate comment to my email antropine@gmail.com in case those guys starts to delete blog posts.
If anyone wants to join me in a french class action let me know. I am studying how we can get reparation for all this lies.
To everyone who wants to get a refund through PayPal:
You won’t get your money from Jolla. They have none. You will get your money from PayPal’s internal reserves. This situation with Jolla Tablet is one of the major reasons of why PayPal blocked funds of several crowdsourced projects, like Neo900 (for more information type “paypal rolling reserve” into your favourite search engine).
Of course you are the one to decide whether to demand a refund or not. Just wanted you to know the consequences.
No idea where you got your information from but this is not true.
I got my money back VIA Paypal, so Paypal was only used as a service, I defenitly got my money back FROM Jolla so the do / did have money.
As they where not able (as mentioned before) to refund me via Indiegogo/CreditCard.
I was not able to cancel the transaction via my CreditCard (only possible within 120 days) so (again like mentioned before) I started hammering Jolla Support that I read people got a refund so why not me.
Took me over 20 e mails, continueing mentioning that their claims where not legit, even in fact illegal. And I was planning to get legal counseling.
Until the final e mail I only got “automated” copy / paste replies which did not gave me any answer.
My final e mail was that I was fed up with it, and would go to my local autorities (police) and would file a report for Internet scamming.
After this they asked me for my PayPal account and I got refunded.
So agian ..I did NOT preorder .. I was an Indiegogo Backer and paid via Indigogo with Credit Card. And Jolla DID pay me as the payment details clearly stated JOLLA as sender of the payement.
I encourage you to post a comment on Indiegogo board since you are also a backer, here chances are some people will just discourage you. I also started a refund request, if they ignore me in the next 24 hours will reach out to paypal directly or even my credit card company, it is just plain unfair that they deliver it to a few and some guys were given refund, and my case is being ignored
Maikel, can you please upload your conversation somewhere on cloud so we can have a proof that refund is issued. Just in case they start to stall something and backing up from doing a refund. Please.
Well the conversation is not really that interesting I could upload a screenshot of my original backing (I backup everything) and a screenshot of the refund I received via PayPal.
But I have little time this week so bair with me until over the weekend and I will post something here.
Than again just start a case at Jolla support and keep on mailing as they will try to blow you off the first few times and refer to these comments here.
Seen over 4 guys now who received a refund just by mentioning other cases / guys so in other words they did not use any proof at all neither did I just be clear refund now !
they already did try that. First they started with common BS like 2 options, then when I started explaining them that they infringement couple of laws, they have sent me that they are under debt restructuring process (again, this is not a bankruptcy and therefore they can use their bank accounts to issue full refunds). Now they are trying to ignore me. Please send me your transcripts / conversation with paypal confirmation (you can blur the sensitive details), but I need this for to get my money back.
Please send one copy to my email antropine@gmail.com just in case they start to deleting this blog post and “edit” some comments.
Best regards
I also received my money back. I told them that I was no IGG backer and then a week later I had the money via PayPal. Took 4 e-mails.
It is a pity that I had to take this step, since I really would like to have the tablet.
Months later I am still in the same odd position: what tablet should I use?
You can ask them to buy a tablet 🙂
foresttoad, can you also please help me to forward your mail conversation with Jolla support, with printscreen of PayPal receiving the full refund. Also blur some sensitive stuff like. I need to fight them to get my money back. Please send it to my email address antropine@gmail.com
Thank you very much
It doesn’t matter are you IGG or preorder user: On their official IGG web page it says clearly: “Jolla Tablet – world’s first crowdsourced tablet”. They financed software development with money for tablet, and they haven’t delivered the product. Their obligation and professional responsibility needs to do the right thing and that is make a full refund. I waited long enough so I have applied for a full refund.
Yesterday I watched. – Speech by Antti Saarnio (Co-Founder & Chairman of Jolla) at Slush 2015.
https://youtu.be/BjnNvjcrQeo
The main problem is not that what it says.
A in the that he believes that the tablet is still needed.
All he says is empty.
Another alternative is going down (FirefoxOS)
http://techcrunch.com/2015/12/08/mozilla-will-stop-developing-and-selling-firefox-os-smartphones/
The Sailfish will have to make it!
We know this guy is full off shit and tries to sell empty shells so why even bother to listen to him?
He does not respond on tweets, blogs or whatever.
Makes emote statements and does not reveil the truth.
In other words this guy is doing exactly the same as companies like Apple / Samsung..
Well almost because he only takes your money and does not even bother to give you anything (tablet) in return.
Honesty is the keyword here which mr Antti Saarnio is obviously NOT
Maikel and foresttoad, please help me with the refund issue. They are ignoring me, and I need a proof that you got your refund. Also tipo158, can you send your printscreen of refund via your PayPal and email correspondence with Jolla, so I can also get my money. Email address is antropine@gmail.com
Thank you again for your help,
best regards.
Yes if you can give us what you did it will be helpful.
They do not answer to anything. They must enjoy the pizza they bought we our money.
@Maikel
@foresttoad
Could you please upload your letters to some publik Share instead of sending them only to Prometheus or Freyr Asgard. I think a lot of other people need them too.
+++++++++++++ !!!!!!!
He can do that, but I need this urgently since I am having same procedure as Maikel. Writing countless letters while they are ignoring the one simple truth: under “Disputes between Campaign Owners and Contributors” it states clearly “Campaign Owners are legally bound to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks).” and more important “If a Campaign Owner is unable to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors, the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include the issuance of a refund of Contributions by the Campaign Owner.”
Check for yourself if you don’t believe me: https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms
They’ve broke several time frames and clearly published that they cannot deliver tablet. So our right is to request for a full refund. BS like two options that they’ve gave is illegal (tablets may never be delivered so what happens with money)? Since they’ve agreed to IGG rules, they need to comply to the one that it is written on IGG website under “terms of use”.
Hi Maikel, sorry for putting the pressure on you, but I need this ASAP, print screen of your contribution and refund issued by Jolla via PayPal. (if you can send your conversation with them it would additionally help me regarding my refund status)…
Also from which country you are?
I am not able to bring in the whole conversation, but this is the best I can do for all you guys here, I removed all personal information (as this is still the interwebs)
But I’m from the Netherlands (as you can see in the pic)
http://picpaste.com/Jollaproof.jpg
Man I love you! can you send me an email so I can contact you privately. I have few question regarding all refund thing… you have my email written above.
I do not understand.
What happened before refund:
1. At what email address you writing?
2. The main text of the requirement refund?
https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?s=f9dd1c6f12ec77086004eb51bc283ae3&t=94393&page=264
The scam is still on: http://www.tivi.fi/Kaikki_uutiset/jolla-horjuu-haudan-partaalla-sai-oikeudelta-rauhoitusaikaa-6236014
I read the translation from google, no wonder the support emailed me that refund processing might be postponed until 2016.
Might be? they are having no intention of money refund… They are trying to get money to continue with they brilliant idea to continue to develop OS instead of returning money after their fiasco. Let me tell you something, and that concerns to all other brainless bozos. They are mentioning that you read the terms of the IGG and that you took a risk. That is complete bullshit and not even legit because on the campaign there a huge bold title: “Jolla Tablet – world’s first crowdsourced tablet” – a f**** TABLET! I have extracted all their statements from previous blog posts where they were convincing contributors/buyers that tablets are in last phase and almost to be ready to be shipped and at the end they confess that they’ve spent all the money into their own project of developing software “Sailfish 2.0” so it can be licensed / sold to OEM. This clearly can be a good ground for being accused of fraud. (I will upload this on cloud so it is publicly available to everyone), also they can even change or moderate the statements but there is always webarchive that has snapshot of their website. Also, how convenient that same CEO who is in “financial problems” has raised over 50Mil $ on “different campaign called Jolla Adventures, with same logo as Jolla company”. This can be also be a good ground for investigation for an embezzlement. Another thing, when they applied to the campaign they complied to the agreement: under Disputes between Campaign Owners and Contributors, there is clear statement: citing “Campaign Owners are legally bound to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors (including delivering any Perks).” and in addition “If a Campaign Owner is unable to perform on any promise and/or commitment to Contributors, the Campaign Owner will work with the Contributors to reach a mutually satisfactory resolution, which may include the issuance of a refund of Contributions by the Campaign Owner”. They agreed to their terms and conditions thus they are legally obliged to make a refund to contributors. Any delay for that is illegal. From the article there is a clear statement that they have money, but if the financiers/contributors ask for a refund they will be in a trouble for continuing their work. This is clear statement that they deliberately won’t release funds and return money to their right owners. That is why they called Helsinki District Court to protect them TEMPORARY (without consulting to any of the creditors). Also we need to know that this is only a district court and that there is a supreme court that can cancel this decision, therefore Jolla needs to understand that they are not protected from action class law suits.
By brainless bozos, I meant guys who are still telling that IGG campaign is the risk that backer should take… That is not true. READ F*** TERMS ON IGG. Also by voiding agreement several times they are indeed held accountable for their actions.
If you have not notice, there are no new posting on the comment section from the people who earlier defended jolla a lot, when backers start to question jolla about delivery.
go to maemo forum and you’ll see that there is always few trolls that are doing exact thing. (Thank God that there is only few of them – probably Jolla employees that are trying to “create a balance”).
at least you assumed they are employees, I thought they are just paid stooge to glorify the company and the product, will not be surprised if they are also in IGG.
@LordDaluyong maybe this is because what we once wrote is still valid and things haven’t changed much. So there’s no point in repeating over and over again.
Of course, those who are not interested in the issue per se but find their pleasure in spreading lies, trolling, spilling hatred… those of us will keep posting on a daily basis. They are interested only in putting on a show. 🙂
and exactly what are you going to post? Do you have any good suggestions to rectify this mess?Am just asking cause you replied to me and you seem to have a plan
And he is telling how we are trolling others by telling the truth… What can I say about that guy. Either that he is totally delusional or he deliberately trying to annoys others…
@LordDaluyong it’s not up to me to “rectify” anything. What makes you think I “have a plan”? My plan is to wait and see how things evolve. Of course, this is wiser than spreading lies here like prometheus does, for example.
Seriously? I have to wonder why some people here have backed a small crowd-funded startup like Jolla just to scream “Fraud!” and “Money back!” as soon as there’s a bump in the road (and these things happen more often than not to startups).
I backed Jolla because I believe in choice and my trusty old N900s are starting to fail. If you guys designed another rugged Linux phone with a proper built-in keyboard that can be operated without smearing your screen with dirt I’d give you 700 euros a year in advance even if the odds of me eventually getting it were only 25%!
Little bump on the road. You seriously mean that? They used money for totally different agenda. Creating OS so they can license that and get more money from it. They are trying to convince us that it was for tablet, but in fact it is for Intex devices who would be their only OEM partner… Let me remind you that they’ve wrote so many comments and blog posts how tablets will be delivered by 3-5 weeks from developers loan. Do you even know when this loan has started? if not look at the previous articles…. Finally they’ve presented that money has been spent on OS development and there is no money for tablet assembly. That is not fault of IGG contributors or pre order customers, but Jolla itself.
@prometheus: Two lies in one post… Your trolling gets more and more efficient.
Where did our money gone, I will quote one guy who got everything streight:
During the passed months Jolla has stated to be working hard to bring the Sailfish OS on Intex Telecom devices.
Intex was being called Jolla’s first licensing partner since mid ’15.
They spent all the money on creating OS for Intex instead of bringing the tablets. Should we continue to pointing out how many rules of engagement they’ve broke and how legit their job was…
Everyone not happy should go on Tweeter and Facebook and publish messages with keywords #jolla #jollatablet and @jollahq so everyone know what’s happening with this thieves.
Good luck, Jolla!
going in the right way apparently 🙂
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.nl/2015/12/news-update-debts-on-hold-at-jolla.html
Going to right way? by stealing 2.5Mil $ and used it to software development (possibly to adjust it for Intex devices…), and they are still not issuing refund since they’ve broke IGG terms of use…
None of this is easy and some of the commentators don’t seem to understand that crowd-funding is a risk/reward investment.If you can’t afford to lose it don’t do it.
But I for one won’t ask for a refund – the risk is part of the deal and I’m far more worried about the dire lack of diversity and the spectre of cartel behaviour in mobile operating systems. Maybe that’s why I’m still using Symbian!
So good luck guys – keep battling the stormy seas.
Once again, noone complain about losing money, people complain about Jolla lying, cheating and the fact they used the money to do something else that what the indiegogo explained.
Are they dumping the tablet, or is this a joke?
https://together.jolla.com/question/124628/the-jolla-tablet-is-there-/
Looks suspiciously similar.
Jolla Loyalists are suggesting that what’s on offer is “inferior” to the “real” Jolla Tab.
Only a couple of hundred of those are known to exist so I think that’s moot.
According to the web page this looks very like the devices we all paid for. It does say loaded with Android 4.4, but otherwise the spec looks highly similar.
Anyone from Jolla (does it still exist?) like to comment???
I suppose they loaded these tablets with Android to avoid legal action from Jolla, but besides that these are I think those very Tablets we paid for. (At least the branded Jolla® back cover is here, that’s a serious sign imho.)
Goodbye Sailfish 2.0, goodbye Jolla phone and goodbye Jolla tablet. Goodbye Mr. Saarnio and all the other incompetent or smart ass from Jolla. Goodbye to all the fan boys. I will check my spam folder from time to time, it might be an mail from Jolla inside. I spent money for an tablet as promised and not for OS! I spent money for an developed in Finnland device and not for an Android clone! No reason to use Sailfish OS and put Android apps on it! Use Jolla phone as daily device is a pain in the ass! Open my drawer put it in and after a few weeks I will have forgotten Sailfish. So keep my money and put it to the place where the sun never shine.
Goodbye Ossi1967
Looks like funding has succeeded 🙂
https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/
The year is turning to an end and as Jolla Inc. says the financing succeeded.
So when will we get feedback about the future of the tablet?