Since the beginning of Jolla, there has been periodic meetings going on between the community and sailors. But many of you might be not familiar with them since they haven’t been promoted by us in a great scale.
If you have followed our forum, together.jolla.com, we have been actively accepting and discussing new entries and topics for the said meetings while having them on IRC, mostly once a month and now on a bi-weekly basis, depending on the amount of topics and entries we get. If you don’t know what IRC is, scroll to the bottom of this post.
This has been going on since the beginning…
We have had these meetings with the community since the beginning of Jolla. The truth is that a text based meeting especially in an environment like IRC can be intimidating at first but not so difficult to get used to – I’m talking also from my personal experience. There is also the fact that not everyone uses IRC or knows how to use it, can be the reason behind it.
What we are planning to do is to fix that and talk more openly about our Sailfish OS, open source collaboration meetings, blog about what has been going on during those meetings and encourage people to propose more topics so that our community can get more involved with the sailors.
What’s going on in the meetings?
This time, we are going to bring the second to last meeting up and talk about what has been said during that meeting. The reason we are not talking about the very last meeting is that there were no topics announced for that meeting and we got to do a rather short general discussion only. Anyhow, let’s cut to the chase:
Okay, before we do that, let’s have a quick tutorial to the most common IRC commands used during meetings:
Firstly, IRC commands start with a “hash” – #
#startmeeting: Used once in every meeting for starting the meeting so that the IRC bot starts logging.
#info : This command is, as it implies, used for tagging important information in meetings, as you shall see later on this blog post, #info is mostly used if a Sailor has said something that is an answer (or information) regarding a topic, which brings us to the next command.
#topic : This command is obviously used to change topics.
#action: Is used when there is an action point for someone, usually a Sailor.
#undo: As the name gives it away, it’s for undoing the last action taken by the meeting chairperson. Example: If the chairperson writes an #info down and then commands #undo, the bot will delete that #info from the final log.
#endmeeting: Used to tell the bot to stop logging the meeting.
Brief Introduction:
Sailfish OS community collaboration meetings (referred to as SFOS IRC meetings from now on) always begin with a brief introduction so we get to know who’s nickname is what which allows us to properly tag people who we directly want to talk to. Tagging people on IRC is as simple as writing down their nicknames (no @ or + needed!) or, if you are tagged by someone who has a hard nickname, just press the “Tab” button on your keyboard which should work on most IRC clients (In some cases you will need to press it more than once) and the nickname will be tagged automatically. Fairly easy, right?
This last meeting was no exception and we got 17 registries during the introduction (Although there always are late comers who won’t announce their presence during the intro.)
Topics and discussions:
After the intro, we get straight to the topics and we discuss them between Sailors and our dear community members. Each topic has its own duration and extra information decided by the creator. It is truly simple to create a topic. The hard part being actually thinking of one, which is on its own extremely easy if you are involved into the development of Sailfish OS. All you need to do to create a topic on TJC is to edit the page and add your topic to the list using the sample that can be found under “Template for topic proposal” area.
We had three topics up for discussion last time and only two of them were thoroughly discussed. The third one was cancelled since the main author wasn’t present, therefore we will only brief you on the two discussed topics.
Possibility to enable 802.11r support in wpa_supplicant
As described by the author, Support for 802.11r is disabled at compilation time in package wpa_supplicant. As explained in TJC, it is relatively easy to enable this feature without any abnormal behaviour.
This was a topic which we discussed very briefly as the answer to it by our Sailor, Marko Saukko, was that “There is no reason why it could not be enabled other than testing and making sure nothing breaks if it is enabled“. That brought us to an action point where the author of the topic were assigned to test the matter on Mer project and see what outcome it results.
Project Halium, collaboration on common android base
This is effectively a topic that marks the birth of a new open source project called “Project Halium”. The description, according to the creators who were the authors of the topic is as followed:
Currently Ubuntu Touch, Sailfish OS/Mer, Plasma Mobile and others have different Android source trees and methods on how our stacks are built even though much of the underlying technologies are the same. There is a lot of unneeded fragmentation. Project Halium aims solve this by the having common Android base and middleware between different projects so that we could collaborate and distribute each of our resources more efficiently. More details about this project was sent to Sailfish OS developer mailing list.
This topic went on discussing the birth of this new project and mostly were focused on getting comments from Sailors which was like this: “We need to remember here one important thing, what works with the ODM’s? It does not really matter what we think is the best if it doesn’t work with the ODM’s. Also things like merging to same codebase things like kernel or drivers or using same caf tag is basically going back to MeeGo times and the issues that were already existing there that we have been working quite hard to get working with Sailfish OS and our ODM partners.”
Since a lot of information was crammed into this topic, I recommend anyone who would like to get the whole picture to visit this link and read from “08:18:22” until “08:52:36” which marks the whole discussion line after line.
General discussion
What happens after all of the topics are answered, is a 10-15 minute general discussion. Usually, if there is a leftover discussion from the topics above that has gone over time, or simply anyting else will be said and discussed here in the general discussion part of the meeting.
This time, the main discussion was the Sony Xperia project which is progressing steadily.
Next Meeting Date
This is obviously the last part of the meeting and it includes the chairman suggesting a time and the others either accept or deny. Usually end with gathering votes for a particular time and date.
The next meeting will be held on Wednesday, 17th of May 2017 at 08:00 UTC. Feel free to join us here and discuss your own topics!
Please leave your topics and questions here before joining.
Cheers,
James
(*) What is IRC? And why IRC?
Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is one of the first chat services on the internet that is still being used by many people around the globe. IRC fits well in our open source culture, it is secure and open and we use it also internally. It provides something called bots which makes gathering meeting information and meeting “minutes” in one place easy.
When we have these periodic meetings with our community, we use IRC bots to divide different topics from one another so that we can later on go back to the given questions and answers and find them in the meeting minutes provided by the bot after the meeting is done.
Great – Topic suggestions. 1.Refund – 2. Sail for Xperia X – 3. Jolla vs Russian vs China. 4. Any plans for something unique like a landsca qwerty slider?
Dave999 if you want to talk about this topics, you can propose them on TJC https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/ as it mentioned in the blog post. Then show up at the meeting to talk about that.
Yes, thanks. I probably have to do that. Its just that I don’t think that should be necessary when we have jolla toghter and a blog. I just have a few questions and Jolla together should be enough for that. Or this blog. unfortunately there are no jolla presences there.
Refund –>
What I’m looking for is just if we are closer to refund then a year ago since we are now more than a year from first refund.
Xperia X –>
regarding the xperia x im interested in what devices they mean since there are plenty of xperia x models on the market.
Are China/Russia sail up and running and are they isolated OSs which mean if I can back jolla Sail without backing these OSes?
qwerty slider might be might be a topic for another time.
I agree with you, I would like to be informed of the second phase of the money back. You can not be all life pending this issue, I hope it will be resolved soon.
Oh Dave – don’t know what to say …
[ ^^ some pets won’t omit any lantern or tree in town … ]
First thought I had when I saw the new blog post was “Is dave going to spam about the refunds again?” and looks like I definitely wasn’t off the mark.
Seriously dave, if you want your daily updates, why don’t you try to badger them directly via email or something? That way we don’t have to put up with your spam.
you seems to want to discuss this subject in every single blog post so I play along.
I don’t want it daily, but possibly monthly. this is now overdue and would be nice with indication if we moving in the right directions or not.
We have: 1. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jolla-tablet-world-s-first-crowdsourced-tablet#/comments
2.jolla twitter
3. toghter jolla
4. blog jolla
and still we don’t know where we are or have a clue what is going on, the only thing we have is some vague words from CEO this year. this project backed by backers and we suppose to be included.
Right… I’ve never brought up the refunds on my own and most of the times I’ve commented on the subject have been to tell you to stop the spam or at least take it somewhere else.
Seriously, you’ve spent well over a year spamming this blog so by now you should have learned that it’s a waste of time. If you want to get answers from Jolla, then contact them directly by email or twitter. However don’t expect any of your daily updates when the CEO has said that they’ll announce more information about the specifics of the second refund when there’s actually something to announce.
hmm… so to say… you know: he expects money or any satisfying proposal about solving refund tragedy (BTW: Youyota is the best accidental opportunity Jolla can utilise and Jolla will have about this, ever for ever whenever IMHO). Not any CEO updates. Seems to me IMHO. And I think you know it also.
It’s one thing to expect your money back when you buy something, but another to do so when you invest it…
As I pointed out, his spam about details for the second refund is a complete waste of time when it’s been made perfectly clear that further announcements will happen when there’s something to announce.
@LAG Don’t blame me for your wasted time here. It takes two to tango!
At what point did I say that it’s a waste of my time? I was actually referring to you there as the time you’ve spent moaning would probably have been better spent even just twiddling your thumbs.
Well do you fear to learn your wonderful company is still a bunch of thieves, who took money from us, given in goodwill and now are very very loose with their obligation?
This is not fair, and offensive. Respect others when you want to be respected. I disagree with you. This is hate speech.
Well if you really believe that, then why are you still here wasting your time moaning about a second refund you don’t think will ever come? Are you just moaning for the sake of moaning?
And now tell us truly what you wanted to say? That is not clear: are worrying about my time? Realllllly? Harrrrrd to believe … 😉
At what point did I say it was my time that was being wasted writing all this spam? With all the other avenues dave just brought up it’s clear he doesn’t just spam the comments section to the Jolla blog, he wastes his own time spamming about the refund in many different places.
My time is My time. Please leave me out of your parallel universe please. No point to argue this point since you simply have no real arguments.
It’s not exactly like you can have any real discussion with someone who spends the better part of a year checking a site several times a day for over a year and posting the same complaint every time something new is posted on said site.
You could but you are unlikely to understand how given your track record here. Calling people idiots is not the way to go, man.
When we are not heard by Jolla, we will have to make us hear even if it is here. It seems to me right that Dave has an opinion here on this, and is stating the points that would have to be discussed and resolved. It seems to me correct.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARJ8cAGm6JE&feature=youtu.be&t=1m4s
And that one I really like: I always know what I will find there Hall… 😀
I think you mean Dave’s spam account…
That nor I neither you don’t know for sure. Well, I don’t know.
No meter how hard I try I always when trying to join meeting receive such, identical or similar, effect as following:
[10:32] == End of /MOTD command.
[10:32] == Usermode change: +i
[10:32] -syn- You have been blocked due to filtering problems.
[10:32] == (Banned)
[10:32] == ERROR: Closing Link: gateway/web/freenode/session (Disconnected by services)
[10:32] == Disconnected from server: Connection to IRC server lost.
[20:12] == End of /MOTD command.
[20:12] == Usermode change: +i
[20:12] -syn- You have been blocked due to filtering problems. Contact kline@freenode.net with questions.
[20:12] == (Banned)
[20:12] == ERROR: Closing Link: gateway/web/freenode/session (Disconnected by services)
[20:12] == Disconnected from server: Connection to IRC server lost.
Idea of meeting is welcome, good and OK. But do you have any idea, for me, how to join it?
It seems like you are banned from freenode unfortunately. Why should that be? Have you had any previous experiences with IRC before?
hmm…? What do you mean James? As from some years already I’ve been using IRC I dare to say I have some, usually for open projects. And “some” may have different meaning for sb using IRC 24/24/7/365/life. 😉 So “some” I have, but not 24/24 – in such a case I would not have to enter, I would be there already. But why would I to be banned, even before I would have any chance to say or do anything? Awkward & strange. So seems for me there is not any chance to take part. I am wander if there are more excluded from those nettings, or just me only? And why or what for? I was not saying anything before, but when it is propagated here: this is not open meeting, or not so much open, for me it is closed.
What is this “-syn- You have been blocked due to filtering problems.” what filtering? What this means, do you know?
I will ask around, this is a problem I have not encountered. Let me see what our sailor have to say about it.
@James Thax a lot in advance! I suspect a bot or something about automated procedures, what of course does not mean they are useless/unnecessary. pls note: I could not enter, so perhaps some others also? e.g. nh1402 was expected, perhaps was not present for the same reason? Has tried, has been banned, has resigned and/or has felt hesitated. Perhaps, I don’t know. but you can’t exclude it.
nh1402 was unfortunately ill at that time and that’s why he was not present. If you read the log until the end he actually was present during the end. That’s why I’m saying, I’ve never seen anything like this before. But hey, I got an answer, and it was simpler than we thought. As the instructions said, you’ll have to contact kline@freenode.net !
There are STILL full refunds missing.
Where is the money that was stolen from backers, and now used as interest-free credit till when ever you deign to pay us interest-free back?
Thanks for being a traitor to those who earliest believed in you.
Are using/used Tor?
@awkward-user
what “@awkward-user” ?
While using irc
you Jolla for taking our money and not givin what you promised inreturn.
That is not true, and again hate speech. Even or despite all Jolla’s sins. Lots of customers in return for their money have received what were promised.
hate speech (n): “Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group.”
It is not hate speech to say that Jolla mislead backers by promising them a tablet, then promising a refund, and then only delivering on half of a refund. It’s not even inaccurate, that’s exactly what happened.
You’re now at the level of Trump calling news he disagrees with “fake news.”
While we do have some spite toward Jolla for the deceptive tablet campaign, complaining about it is not “hate speech” despite what you think.
As I’ve said before, if Jolla refunds my contribution fully, then I will forgive and forget.
How can you ask us to collaborate if you cheated us?
If you really want colaboration then be honest and fully refund us.
I agree with you. Clearer than water.
Wow, another blog post, another non update on the refund. If you can’t pay it back just f@#$ing say so.
Okay Jolla, you said that the second part of the refund will be “paid in a year after the first part, financial situation permitting”. I patiently waited for this whole year, without leaving a single comment here.
Now a year passed. Whichever way you slice it, you HAVE to publish an update about the second part of the refund, even if this update will consist of nothing except “right now our financial situation is not permitting”.
All that “we already said that we will publish new info as soon as there is any update, so since we haven’t published anything there is no update so GTFO” crap doesn’t cut it anymore.
Give the second part of the refund now!
Google proudly opened sources to their new RTOS: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta
Jolla OS is rather “selfishOS” than “sailfishOS”
https://fuchsia.googlesource.com
Yep, thank you @Dave999.
Now the question is how long it will take this OS to be the most popular?
I strongly believe that this new OS will affect not only mobile market, but as well automotive, so BBRY’s QNX closed source os will be badly affected as well.
Well, I doubt it will happen any time soon and we have no clue if this is anything other than a test ballon. I like that it’s fully open but we need more info of intent. But it would be cool if it found the way to consumer products in a few years.
Jolla .. HELLOOOO !!! REFUND YOUR BACKERS !!!
And yes we are going to hijack every blog post until we have our money back ..
Selfish OS .. briljant !!
Hello,
I find the project halium really great. Gather all Teams which use the same android interface, and exchange experience, for better integration, and evolve on the same level
But is it not a little bit compromised if canonical stopped the development of their mobile OS?
Do canonical stay in the round-table?
What is the future now? Only Jolla and KDE will work together?
What are the other mentioned actors?
Is there other teams which could be interesting to gather in the project? or interested to come inside
I have heard about alien dalvik on IOS. Is that right? or just wrong info? Internet is full of this info, but i didn’t find any serious media which handles on it…
Cheers
Here’s a great alternative for IRC:
https://wire.com
Wire is a video, audio and text chat software with end-to-end encryption recommended by Edward Snowden.
It’s open source, free and runs on all systems (except Sailfish OS, but that will hopefully change in the future).
Thanks a lot for the headsup @FV. Definitely something worth looking at.
1)I also backed for a tablet, got one half of the refund and donated the other half to Jolla. Now I want to ask everyone who did not get a tablet to accept this loss and to stop complaining. Stop it. It is of no use to go on screaming.
2)My husband and I are ordinary users, no techs. We still have that crappy first Jolla phone. Fortunately we also use an ipad, for the Jolla is absolutely not sufficient for a modern life, unless you manage to get the Google playstore. And this is not what we want. WE DISLIKE GOOGLE. I hope that Sailfish on an Xperia will be improved in such a way that it can compete: streaming/mirroring as was promised, a proper app shop with normal paying system. Why can’t we have a bank app on our Jolla? So: Jolla Sailfish has to grow up and really try to be an alternative to Google and Apple.
Wire would be great on Jolla Sailfish. But still there is no Wire client. Have searched for it several times. Who is willing to make a client and let it work properly in Sailfish?
Another thing: we use Tutanota mail, also on our Jolla. There is an app in Aptoïde. But Tutanota does not have IMAP and POP, so Tutanota is not supported in Sailfish. The general mail does not work. How to solve this? Why does Jolla not cooperate with Tutanota?