Dear Jolla Tablet supporters and other Jolla followers,
Happy New Year! Together, let’s make this an ever better one than last.
In that spirit, we now have answers for those of you who have been waiting for the next Jolla Tablet update – thanks again for your patience. As already stated in our New Year’s post, we plan to ship an additional small batch of Jolla Tablets to early Indiegogo backers. And, for the rest of our backers, we now have a refund process in place – see below for more details.
It has taken a while to get all the details in place and the final decision for the refunding process. Why? Because in addition to planning the tablet refund process, we needed to clarify the company’s overall financial situation moving forward.
Before going into more detail regarding the refund process, I would like to first revisit the recent history of and what went wrong with the Jolla Tablet project.
Why did the Jolla Tablet project end up in trouble?
After the first two Indiegogo campaigns (in November-December 2014 and February-March 2015) things looked very bright. We realized that the promised shipping schedule was very tight, and we were very confident that we could make it. However, soon after the Indiegogo campaigns, we hit the first obstacles: we experienced severe issues with component deliveries and with the display quality. Still, back in August-September 2015 as we started the pre-order campaign for the Jolla Tablet, we were confident that we could start deliveries according to the revised project schedule. And in October, we shipped the first batch of tablets – 121 units – to ensure that the order and logistics chain worked properly. Everything went smoothly.
To continue, our supplier then had their own issues and had to change factories two times for production, which again affected the schedule. Naturally, project delays also have a severe impact on budgets; it was this cycle of events, which led the project into serious trouble.
To top it all off, we entered into company-wide financial trouble as our financing round was unexpectedly delayed in the late autumn. The initial impact was that we could not pay our subcontractors, which again contributed to more delays. The financing delay resulted in a fight for the survival of our company, not just the Tablet Project.
In December, the long-awaited financing finally arrived, but at that point the company had already been hit hard. In order to continue the Jolla story, we had been forced to apply for debt-restructuring in Finland and had to temporarily lay off a large part of our organization. Despite these challenges we are continuing the story – this was just one death valley we had to pass through. And, we definitely are not yet in the clear, as we now need to rebuild our organization and recover from the hit.
What has made the past months even more stressful for us has been the realization of the amount of distress we might’ve have caused for our Jolla Tablet project supporters. It is one thing to deal with internal challenges, but when they so directly affect our dear Community, the situation becomes nearly unbearable.
Our sincerest thanks to everyone for your support and for taking a chance with us.
Getting Closure for and Resolving the Jolla Tablet Situation
We have been analyzing different alternatives regarding the Jolla Tablet project situation. But no matter how you come at it, the tight financial situation remains a major constraint and therefore a main driver of the solution. Furthermore, due to the delays in the latest financing round it has simply become too late to produce all the tablets for the project. The supplier no longer has the needed components and many of them are no longer available. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done now to change this.
In light of the above, Jolla intends to do the following:
1. Ship remaining Tablets to Indiegogo backers: we will ship 540 units as soon as we can starting from February. This was already mentioned in Juhani’s New Year’s greeting. We realize that this is just a small portion and does not help in resolving the overall situation.
2. Refund the remaining Indiegogo contributors: Jolla aims to refund the total contribution, including shipping and all accessories. Due to the financial constraints this will happen in two parts: half of the refund will be done during Q1/2016, and the other half within a year, our financial situation permitting.
The Tablet shipping and refund processes start immediately once all the practicalities are in place. Specific to refunding, we plan to establish and ramp up the refunding process and start refunding during the course of February.
You will be receiving an email with instructions on what to do. Please wait for that, before contacting our service and support team.
Once again, we apologize from the bottom of our hearts for the inconvenience, and, of course, hope for your continued support.
Your Jolla captain,
Antti
Frequently asked questions:
(Updated on Jan 29,2016):
Q: I ordered the Jolla Tablet directly from the Jolla Shop in the autumn, and not from Indiegogo. What happens to my order?
A: As your transaction was a product order, you will be refunded for the total value of the purchase. No action is required from you at this point, you will receive an email confirmation about it.
Q: I contributed on the first day of the Indiegogo campaign. Does this mean I get a tablet?
A: There were thousands of contributions done during the first hours of the campaign, and we will make every effort to fulfill according to the order in which contributions were made. You will either get an invite to complete your order based on your contribution or you will receive further instructions on how to get a refund.
(New)
Q: If I do not want a refund, and want to donate the money to the future of Jolla. What can I do?
A: We are very happy to receive this question, thanks for the support! If you are an Indiegogo backer, you will be asked to apply for a refund. By simply ignoring this you will be donating the funds to Jolla for its exclusive use. If you are a pre-order customer (August-September 2015) and would like to donate your pre-order payment to Jolla please submit a request here.
Q: What does the future of Sailfish OS look like?
A: After the awaited financing came in in December, Jolla has been able to continue the development of Sailfish OS. We are currently receiving significant interest from different mobile industry players to license the operating system. One of the publicly announced projects is the community driven Fairphone project, but there are many other negotiations going on and Sailfish OS is gradually taking steps to become an OS used by multiple device vendors. However, Jolla is still very tight financially and is currently negotiating with its creditors for extended payment terms so that all the available financial resources could be efficiently used to secure the needed OS development.
Q: Why did you use Indiegogo funds for software development?
A: There has been a lot of discussion on the Jolla Blog about the allocation of the Indiegogo contributions towards OS development and not the tablet itself. Last year a significant part of the OS development efforts were for the tablet; Sailfish OS 1.0 would not have worked on the tablet and the different HW platform also required a lot work – it was a completely new chipset, requiring completely new hardware adaptation. Jolla Tablet is not a Jolla Tablet without Sailfish OS 2.0. and thus it is natural that a big part of the project was focused on this.
Q: Why are there Jolla Tablets (still) on sale at Taobao in China?
A: Jolla as a company has nothing to do with these devices – please note that these devices are primarily not running Sailfish OS, but Android. Furthermore, seeing as these device are not official Jolla devices, they are not covered under Jolla’s warranty terms and conditions.
(NEW)
Q: One seller in China says that they will ship Jolla Tablets with Sailfish OS. Can I buy this and receive normal software updates and use the Jolla Store etc.?
A: As these are not official Jolla devices, we can’t be sure what changes have been made to HW/SW. These devices might not receive software updates, and Jolla Store might not be used on them.
(NEW)
Q: Why can’t Jolla buy these devices back and ship them officially? How many devices are there available in China?
A: The approx 500 devices we aim to ship to IGG backers are from the same batch as these devices. Unfortunately the manufacturer had already sold the few hundred devices to resellers before we could get them back.
Q: Was the August-September pre-order campaign built to save the project? Were you in financial trouble already back then?
A: No. During the autumn we were still very confident that we could ship the devices according to the new schedule after the unexpected delays.
Q: Why didn’t you communicate more frequently during the campaign?
A: We realize now that in the Spring/Summer 2015 we were not that proactive in our communication. We were anticipating the project to proceed with speed, and aimed at communicating about that next. This was clearly a mistake, we did not communicate proactively enough.
Im expecting my refund ASAP, not somewhen in 2016.
And then i will forget the company who misused my contribution to a tablet, and burned away any trust in them.
misused for what?
An OS only. “Jolla” now has a product to sell. The IGG bid was for a Tablet + OS. So basically, we financed them building an OS and now we can be happy to get our initial money back…
What’s your point exactly? You say your money is misused for a tablet, to say later for an OS, while Jolla tries to refund your total contribution.
So, technically your money isn’t misused, maybe only you’ve missed some (very low) interest.
That’s the consumer-risk of buying something and it doesn’t go so well financially with the party you’re buying it from. I’m sorry for you, but I can’t think any better than: get over it…
I’m also disappointed in Jolla. Why:
“The supplier no longer has the needed components and many of them are no longer available. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done now to change this.”
I’m not convinced with a part not being available at a customer needs to lead to a product that’s not being put to market.
The place I’m working, we have (hundreds) of suppliers. For main components we try to have multiple suppliers. And if we can’t have multiple suppliers and one goes bankrupt (for example), we try to find a solution (maybe with degraded specs, if there’s no alternative). But we don’t sell no to our customer.
So, Jolla, haven’t you tried to find another supplier or change the design?
Anyway…I hope we’ll be able to forget this…I asked questions many times, without answers or else excuses from people different than Jolla.
Jolla, what can we expect the coming months? If we get no answer: we probably will draw conclusions.
Agreed on the disrributer issue. I work for a company that produces embedded computers and we make sure that each component has multiple sources or, if bread-and-butter component, there are compatible components available. Onr problem I can see with missing components that Jolla has is if it’s components, like the display, critical for maintaining their guarantee commitment, and then how that will work.
What’s a “bread-and-butter component”? (Just curious)
Something that is present on almost all designs/products, mostly simple components like transistors and logic gates.
Thanks
Oh, stop nagging – nobody cares!
Everything has been explained, you can do nothing about it. So don’t spoil comments.
Who are you?
Sounds like Ossi and Kjetil, so probably another member of the same cult.
@dtyger: Speak for yourself.
+1
Thank you Jolla! I salute the decision. It was the right one and a requirement for getting back to business. GL
Indeed, they’re doing the right thing!
Agreed, provided that they actually do it.
It will be only “somewhen that year”. Basically the backers where misused for a 2 year free loan.
Exactly my thoughts.
Well, that’s exactly what Crowdfunding is for, you can’t be unhappy about that. Jolla is either sending you the perk (tablet + accessories), or refunding, which is perfectly fine. A much worse outcome would have no perk and no refund !
I wish Jolla the best for the future, and hope I will be able to buy more products from them or their partners in the future !
+1. As long as I’ll actually get my money back, I won’t mind giving Jolla a “2 year free loan”.
Whilst I’m basically as pissed-off as the next man about the way Jolla has mishandled this whole business, I’m prepared to give them one more chance to make good.
If my original contribution for a Tablet eventually morphs into a loan for them to develop Sailfish, I’m not pleased, but I’m content to do that.
So assuming that THIS TIME we have the truth the whole truth & nothing but, and i get a refund, I’ll wave Jolla farewell and wish them Happy Sailing….
This was really good news. Thank you. Clear answers and even a promise to refund the IGG money (which I considered risk money to begin with) more or less restored my faith in your judgement. Sail on 🙂
I’ve ordered the case directly from Lastucase.
So, I’ve a case but no tablet (as a contributor from the second wave).
Bad luck for me…
same for me 🙁 what can we do with the case now?
same with me… but I got an idea: I would like to port SailfishOS to some crapy Android tablet of the same size and still use my Lastu case 🙂 Btw, it was late evening of 19.11.14 when I contributed at Indigogo…so I’m around 1300 in contribution list 🙁 BUT I’M STILL IN favour of Jolla! sail on !
Thankyou. Finally some news from you.
540 more to ship. Means 1/2 a refund for me then 🙁
I was circa 1200 on the list 🙁
Ach well. You have lost me…
how can you tell which number are you down the list?
@prometheus and @VlaoMao extracted the list of backers from the IGG database a while ago. Take a look here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qS0DE4oOf7qPYjwUAaL-rjoPcqu6hHQRJOdspQ4_Hgc/edit?pli=1#gid=0
That is not the complete list, just some of the users. But for me it gave an indication that I should be around 6500, so while I still won’t get a tablet, hopefully I’ll get a refund.
I was talking about this file:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e0hz00dzrmqgj2x/backers.txt?dl=0
Thank you! Too bad I had my contribution as anonymous then, but I think I should be around the 6500 mark (3/12).
Thanks, I was actually looking for it too.
Do we know how many tablets were actually shipped in the first round?
The blog mentions 121 shipped as the first batch in October.
If this is correct, that there are 9800 contributors, I am around 7000, so I need to wait entire year for my money to be issued… Great job Jolla >:(
If they refund us after another year of waiting…
I’ve read carefully and found this interesting part:
“Q: If I do not want a refund, and want to donate the money to the future of Jolla. What can I do?
A: We are very happy to receive this question, thanks for the support! If you are an Indiegogo backer, you will be asked to apply for a refund. By simply ignoring this you will be donating the funds to Jolla for its exclusive use. For pre-order customers (August-September 2015), donations are not possible.”
Just to be clear, for me donation is out of the question! I want to receive my refund in full. And by this statement, I wish them to know that I still don’t believe them. Too many bad things has happened and they’ve been a part of it, so I hope that they will not play another joke on me or others, so the “message about refund” is never received, so they will automatically collect a “donation”. I definitely want my money back, and during February, so I can use it to buy a present for a person that I hold most dear.
So if you somehow miss this message, you automatically ‘donate’ to Jolla?
That’s a bit weird. I would expect that everybody gets their refund unless people *explicitly* tell they want to donate.
To be honest: I’m not that confident in Jolla’s administration and since I didn’t receive any message (e-mail) from them for nearly a year, I’m not sure if a refund mail will come to my door.
Thanks! I’m nummer 400 someting on the list so hope alive. Thanks Jolla for keeping the “SISU”!
I don’t think this correct numeration. First thousand must be 189 amount.
My guess is that people at the beginning of the list that show “209” as paid amount simply paid for shipping, thus 189+20=209.
I am at 537!! w00t
Don’t know whether to congratulate you or send my condolences.
Grats: You might get one.
Condolences: You are getting a piece of abandon-ware, No chance of a warranty, no upgrades, no apps, not open source, no future. I’ve been hoping I would fall in the refund group, and its looking like that is the case. Or maybe half a refund.
Pretty much like any Android tablet that’s had its token one or two updates then. The Sailfish update frequency has spoiled us 🙂
I’m #580 on that list! Got my hopes up now! With a total of 121+540=661 being shipped. Hope this list is in the correct order and that Jolla honors it.
As for post: Thank you Jolla team! I have no further questions.:) I really hope I get a tablet rather than a refund, but of course a refund is way better than nothing.
Sail on!
So, I am number 214.
I’m expecting to receive an email pretty soon, because Jolla is respecting the order of contributions, right?
Is there any new tablet “in the queue” with SailfishOS? (Maybe from a licensing partner..) Is it reasonable to wait for that, or do have to buy (e.g.) an Android tablet if we need a new tablet?
+1
Is all the development for the tablet and the new chipset lost and useless?
Jolla Tablet is the most beautiful tablet…I am so sorry that I will not get it.
I don’t want to own any other tablet :'(
My thoughts exactly. I’m really sad that because I’m probably not going to be in the lucky group to receive the tablet, I now have to choose some other crappy tablet to buy. I don’t want any android / m$ / apple tablet, I want Jolla…
… at “least” a fallback :
https://together.jolla.com/question/128326/community-port-requests-2016/
I would prefer a tablet with sailfish pre-installed. BQ is working on Ubuntu on a Aquaris M10. I like the size of the Jolla Tablet. Maybe they can make something similar.
Amazing. This is the post I’ve been awaiting for! And it looks to me the post went through review, glad that you received the advice!
I guess those “positive surprises in stock” (in the New Year’s Greetings article) don’t mean this refund only, huh? (I haven’t ordered the tablet, I’m just curious.)
Anyway, I think Jolla is a trustworthy company as they also could have close the company and establish another, but they did not.
i think getting the assecories refunded as well is the ‘surprise’and its indeed a positive one
*accessories
In the #mer-meeting was stated that there are “suprises left on the sleeve” but not ready to communicate.
http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2016/mer-meeting.2016-01-28-14.30.log.html
Is it possible to donate my money to you, Jolla? My aim was to support you with the tablet campain
Same here.
I was really looking forward to get this beautiful tablet, but if it’s not possible I would rather see Jolla keep the money… my main fear is to be forced to switch to Android or iOs if Jolla disappear :/ I was so glad to discover them after Nokia’s N9 ending
As mentioned above, I’m happy you have stuck by your backers – it would have been so easy to file for bankruptcy and then open up again with a new name leaving us all high and dry.
However, I am quite sad that I won’t be getting my Jolla Tablet, I was really looking forward to getting it. I even sold my iPad and Surface Pro in preparation for the arrival of it…
Oh well, hopefully there will be other devices available to run Sailfish on in the not too distant future.
Happy sailing!
I am bit skeptical about all of these refund options. Since Jolla has misled people too many times refund option is very tempting but I don’t buy it until I get balance info that full 269$ were indeed issued.
Especially part with “other half within a year”
Due to the financial constraints this will happen in two parts: half of the refund will be done during Q1/2016, and the other half within a year, our financial situation permitting.
Yea, I am also a bit worried. But anything is better than nothing. Anyways I am pretty sure people will not shut up until all is refunded.
That is true. Once we get refund, we will move away, and time will do it’s job…
I’m also a bit sceptical about receiving a full refund.
I already bought another device (NVidia Shield K1) so I have no use for another tablet. Only thing I want now is a full refund. ‘Within a year’ is the same sort of vague communication style we got used to from Jolla. I hope it’s at least quicker than ‘soon’.
One remark: can the 540 ‘lucky’ backers selected for receiving a tablet indicate if they still want their tablet? I guess a few of them might want to skip this and opt for a refund, giving a few others the possibility to get these tablets.
that is good idea. Those who wish to receive tablet can send their support a message. I only want a refund so I can use my money to something else…
Such moron does not exist that take refund instead of tablet that has only been produced in numbers of 650. That makes it scarce enough to get more money were you sell it than you put in.
I would definitely be the ‘moron’ to prefer my money instead of an outdated tablet from a company I’ve lost confidence in.
And I will quote one backer:
Ireland
#4170
waited over a year for no tablet – and then the same again for potential refund?
inspires confidence!
-Coley.
+1
Clear story, sad the tablet story ends like this. But +1 for Jolla that they refund the contributors even they are still not in a financial good position.
Long overdue, but better late then never.
Now comes the critical phase – those of us who choose to trust you once more will closely examine your progress and whether you actually learn from your mistakes in communication. I don’t think you will get a third chance!
While the concept of crowdfunding seems to be a little too abstract for a small part of the crowd that understandably raged in the comment section for months, I can see why the majority felt cheated and called ‘fraud’ – you made everyone believe things were going okay when they weren’t. You tell us now it was misjudgement on your behalf. Well be a little more conservative and realistic with stuff you promise to folks outside the company without loosing your spirit and optimism in general!
Good luck to you.
Once last wish – I don’t expect you to follow up on but I have to state never the less: Tell folks their place in the queue for the refunds and also communicate when people can expect THEIR refund. I see this might be a risk because outsiders can easily see behind your curtains and grasp your financial situation making you vulnerable – but a private mail to folks should be possible.
BR
MoritzJT
Ditto.
This is the kind of blog post which I expected to be receiving over the whole course of the campaign. It came WAY too late, but at least it is something.
Because Jolla finally decided to be sincere with me, I will stick with them for the time being. I still hope that I’ll receive my tablet, since the number of my pledge DEFINITELY was less then 540 (IGG counter showed 32). Jolla still didn’t tell anything about the “Russian problem”, but who knows, maybe it went away already?..
Well, I am troubled by the “Russian problem” too and have asked this question via zendesk and got what I consider a standard reply:
“Hello.
There were thousands of contributions done during the first hours of the (first round of the) campaign, and we will make every effort to fulfill according to the order in which contributions were made.
You will either get an invite to complete your order based on your contribution or you will receive further instructions on how to get a refund.
Finally, Jolla will make every attempt to fulfill to supported ship-to countries.
Sincerely,
Jolla Customer Care”
So, I guess we’ll have to wait, but I’ll be enraged if I won’t get my invitation, because I surely was within first 300 contributors. I couldn’t order the phone during the first campaign, because it wasn’t available in Russia, but I ordered the tablet straight away without hesitation.
Well a private mail is not possible unless everybody has some stuff like PGP/GPG! An ordinary mail is not anything like secure!
Please add a “Donate full Indiegogo pledge amount to Jolla” to the options when you send out the mailing.
The best we can do now is support Jolla in the development of Sailfish OS. The better the change will be there will be a hardware supplier licensing Sailfish OS for their tablet. And I bet there will be one.
+1
Instead of being a nail to the coffin of Jolla by being refunded my contribution I support a donation button as well. I want you to be able to continue working on business partnerships for tablets as well (A Nokia N1 with sailfish 2.0 would come in handy.) instead of draining funds you probably urgently need. And if for entrepreneurial or fiscal reasons a donation is not possible maybe you can consider emitting some sort of a ‘backer share’, if such a thing is possible?
I am running SFOS 2 on a Nexus 5. I am willing to send Jolla money if there will continue to be updates to SFOS that works on Nexus 5.
Good to know that you are refunding the tablets.
However, you did lose me as a Sailfish OS user since you could not communicate and told lies. My iPhone is a much better and more polished phone and I am not going to have anything to do with Jolla and/or Sailfish OS in the future!
You have my support on these rough seas. Sail on!
Those who don’t know, please join SailfishOS community collaboration meeting in 5 minutes: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#mer-meeting
( https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/ )
I’m cautiously optimistic about this news. I contributed in the 2nd campaign so I’m still skeptical that I’ll get my refund (Sometime within a year???). I applaud Jolla for doing the right thing here, but we’ve been given promises before…
Thanks for all the informations. my order is “in picking” since october. i’m looking forward to get the tablet on february 🙂
Little over 400 on the backers list!!! Jippikayjeeeeeee!!! I Will get The Tablet.. :)))) In Finland we say “Komiaa!!!” U made me sooo happy, thanks for the post!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Might depend on the version you backed (32GB/64GB) and the amount available for that version…
AFAIK there were no 32GB tablets produced at all (I may be wrong)
i am 307, but don’t know what will happen
So if you’re #167 on the list and backed the 32GB version you’re still f###ed…
Ah, it was nice while it lasted, wasn’t it? Certainly quite a bit of bad luck – too much for one project. At least we all tried and gave our ebst, I’d say… I gave money, you gave the rest. 🙂
There’s one question you might want to add to your FAQ: A few supporters (me included) received invitations last year. They ordered (=paid taxes) but never received a tablet, because only the 64-models were delivered (as far as we know). Supporters who had opted for the 32 model still see their order as “paid” in the Jolla shop, but never received it.
What’s the status of these orders? Will they remain open because 32 models still aren’t available? Or will those tablets be sipped before new invitations are shipped?
@ossi1967: Great question. But wasn’t It the other way round? I thought only 32GB tabs were delivered. I hope you get your one, since you already paid tax and stuff. But only 64GB tabs were good news to me 😛
@Helge: I’m not 100% sure any more. Only 90%. 🙂 – I thought only 64GB were shipped because I myself opted for the 32GB model. I know that I’m really one of the very first on the Indiegogo-list, received the invitation but didn’t get a tablet. So if it’s first come, first serve, I should receive a tablet. If it’s still 64GB only, I’m gonna support SF development with the money instead. 🙂
It was only the 64GB versions that were shipped. That’s what it said on the email I received after completing my order in Jolla Shop.
Yes you are around 60 (sorry to stalk), I am somewhere at 520 *fingerscrossed*. If enough 32/64GB tabs are available for the first 121+540 contributors, I am in the game.
…. question has been raised by @jjoe as well – but he didn’t get any answer : “are those 540 devices 64GB or 32GB or mixed?”
Link: http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23mer-meeting/latest.log.html
——————-
Some indicative “answer” by @jlassila :
“If you are among the 540 and don’t want a tablet, you’re spot will be given to the next one in line.”
At the #mer-meeting the 32GB/64BG question were on the desk but was left unanswered. Maybe a bad sign for 32GB-contributions. But it was also stated that contributers who already finalized their purchase will receive a tablet for sure. Still exciting…
Well thats the kind of communication we were waiting for since September last year, but you already stated that you missed to be that “proactive” in communication. It’s better to admit mistakes than to state there are no problems at all. In my opinion, the next steps are clear, tablet for lucky ones (yes I still think it’s an awesome piece of hw with well tailored sw) and a full refund for anyone else. If you can keep this promises and this vague deadline (well it looks like you gave yourself enough time to do so) you should be fully rehabilitated, even for the angriest persons around here. But I personally understand everyone who can’t forgive you that whole story. No go on and spread out SailfishOS to the world in phones, cars, TV’s and refrigerators. And when it reaches a tablet, I will be there. Sail on.
“What has made the past months even more stressful for us has been the realization of the amount of distress we might’ve have caused for our Jolla Tablet project supporters.”
I’m sure there are a lot more supporters just kept silent on the matter and waited patiently for such a closure. While I would agree that communications should have been more open, all these haters shouting in the blog are not representative.
The solution is probably the best possible. It’s too bad that there is no other hardware ready that you could sell in compensation. I still hope for a decent phone for European market soon.
I agree with you: It’s certainly not the optimal solution, but the best Jolla can offer in their current situation.
… rather the most comfortable “best” jolla could offer.
They could’ve repurchased those 3040 abandoned Taobao tablets instead, ask some voluntary community members for helping out in reflashing them to SFOS – in case they wouldn’t trust in DIY – and having them delivered to increase the user-base.
Why can’t you buy one yourself from the refunded money?
… who will flash it for me then ? jolla customer services ? That’d be the sole option if it were possible …
[ Due to proprietarity / license issues of SFOS no individual flashing possible – as with your jolla phone. No publicly available flashing tool. :/ ]
This is confusing. There are more tablets with SFOS already installed? http://www.mobile57.com/cn/products/jolla-tablet-64gb-3611
World most populer tablet brands see it http://gsmabout.com/catagory/tablet/
It’s really sad to see people saying they want a refund and do not want to see Jolla again… It all goes quite well, communication is a difficult thing and Jolla is not as bad in it. One needs to count with problems when trying a new device. But that doesn’t mean the device is bad!
Ok, now go on. A new tablet or phone would be cool!
Well we finally get a post about the troubles. Like most people I’m very concerned about this two part refund. It sounds like the first half of the refund comes from the round C investment and the second half is dependent on Jolla finding enough licensing partners to become a viable business.
Some information at last! Still some vagueness (how many are the backers? Which are in the list to be refunded somewhere until the end of March, and which are on the one year or never list?), but better.
If you had communicated like this before, you would have avoided a lot of the unpleasantness and the attacks many of us (me included) did here.
Now, a suggestion – quickly inform your backers what is their statuis on this refund list. And be ready for some very loud complains of those on the “2017 or never” list – you really should find another solution than letting people wait for another year after a year of half-truths and bad communication. It might cost you less to refund everyone than to endure another year os suspicion and attacks.
How do you guys know, what number on the backer list you are? It takes forever to scroll through the list…!!!
In the blog post with the faq’s
https://blog.jolla.com/tablet_faq/
raron suggested how the chronological list of contribiutions could be exported from igg. Several users did so and posted their files. Search in the page for “raron on October 15, 2015 at 8:23 pm” and read on from there.
Thanks!
So if I bought a combo. 64gb tablet. Received phone only. What happens?
—————————————————–
Well congrats indeed on flushing a 10k headcount SFOS user-base. No further comment :/ ….
—————————————————–
When / in case I’ll finally receive my jolla tablet I’ll probably feel more like a cast away than part of a movement :/ …
Nobody of you guys came up with the idea of repurchasing those abandoned tablets from Taobao, flashing them with SFOS an having delivered the next few thousands ?!
BTW why is it still saying “people powered” on the teaser above ?
I was wondering that myself.
Should probably be:
“Unlike(ly) people powered”.
More like “powered down”.
“People powered” gives a hole new meaning to it when donations to Jolla for backers are opt-out.
Finally decision – that’s good.
After so much bad luck you realy deserve some good luck!
Sail on! Please!
So, out there there are about seven hundred tablets total, and every SFOS 2.x phone user on the more tablet-oriented UI. 🙂
This one is the most disappointing, I still lose my temper when I think of the changes to the UI.
I loved unstable, freezing, native-app-less SFOS because of the UI. I am still using it and will continue to use until the phone dies, and with the new UI and with no other officially supported devices in sight it may be the end of the SFOS story for me.
Tough cookies Jolla, but such is life. And everyone who keeps complaining and whining about the lost money have clearly misunderstood the very nature of crowdfunding, IGG and Kickstarter, risk is always involved. It’s always an investment, not a purchase.
At least I got the phone, and would very like to see SailfishOS on tablet too. Does anyone know a good tablet one could install SailfishOS on?
I’m a bit sad to (very likely) not get a tablet, but overall this post has a much needed positive spin after the whole “death valley” period.
Still, I’d be very eager to see new hardware with SfOS in a tablet form factor and ultimately more phones down the line. The original Jolla, while still my primary phone, is steadily approaching EOL for me …
Whilst I got my tablet with the first deliveries and frankly it’s one of the nicest tablets I’ve used, I’m saddened by this news. Mostly due to the lack of native software for it and the fact that with so few tablets out there it’s unlikely that the amount native apps will grow, meaning that alien dalvik is pretty much all I can use it for.
TBH I find myself wishing I could install Ubuntu or some other “real” Linux distro to it so I can make use of a wider range of software.
Oh well seems like the ultimate ending of this sad story is still to be awaited for some months. I’m pretty sure that contributors of the second crowdfunding phase cannot expect a tablet neither a refund (at least not in the next months).
So.. i really hate throwing things away.. Thus, i am wondering: what can i do with the lastu case? is there any tablet that fits well into it? As jolla tablet now is a thing of the past, i can take a look for alternatives.. I don’t want crapple i’d prefer a linux tablet and i am not afraid of hacking. so is there anyone who has any clue what ppl like me can do now? holding the empty 75€ case in the hands… this was just as expensive as a whole new tablet 😀
yea i know 75 for a tablet is exaggerated.. 😉
just sell it to one of those poor 500 who missed out on a refund.
tbh, i think there are way more cases sold than tablets delivered..
… you mean you got a brandnew authentic Scandinavian tea-time serving tray at home ? 😉
[ … hopefully liquid-repellent 😉 ]
meh.. 😉 With this tea serving tray, this year can only become an ever better one than last.
… wishing that for you ! 🙂
I am using mine with an iPad mini. The Nexus 7 has a similar size, but I don’t have one to try to see how it actually fits.
Refund for me too. Please.
Well that settles it. Since I’m backer ~3398 I probably won’t be getting a tablet and I will be lucky if I get a refund. I’m never dealing with Jolla again and Sailfish is dead to me. It’s a very sad day for me.
how do i check about my number @@
Why you don’t think you will get a refund? Jolla will have to refund all or die trying…
Dave, they wrote a lot of thing during last year, and no wonder people are skeptical. I am also. In the list of backers, I am around 7000/9800, so if the first half will get their money in Q1, second half will get it during the year (IF THEIR FINANCIAL STATE ALLOWS IT…) at least what they’ve wrote…
They only promised to refund the first half of the backers; the second half will only be refunded, “financial situation permitting”, after another year, if ever.
What? I read i as all backers get half of the money Q1 and the rest later?
I’ve read that half of all contributors will get in Q1 and others when their financial situation permits…
That’s what I make of it.
Maybe Jolla can clearify this.
Me too. And probably the Pre-Orderers get directly a complete refunded as might be mentioned in the faq’s. (Somewhere in between the lines)
thank you for giving information finally
If possible would you mind to tell how those 540 units count?
Like if people demand refund after you send invitation, or simply can’t contact for getting the tablet, will you give the priority to the others?
And would you mind to tell those 540 units are 64gb or both 32 and 64gb version tablet?
thank you
again, we are asked to wait for their e-mails. just like when they said, in november and december, they are going to ship all tablets. i’d bet any money that we will not get any information before that e-mail. i just hope this time we get that promised e-mail after all..
+1
Indeed, otherwise Jolla might think we’re donating the money…
“If you are among the 540 and don’t want a tablet, you’re spot will be given to the next one in line.” (Lassila)
May I suggest that quite a few people here add a comment where they say they are sorry for their harsh words and accusations against Jolla employees after the previous blog post?
No names mentioned, but you know who you are.
+ 1
May I suggest you keep your smug attitude to the jolla board room?
I assume I am one of the targets of your message, and the only way I would have apologised for any of my comments was if jolla had delivered all the tablets now, or, failing that, was giving a full refund to everyone who doesn’t get a tablet before the end of next month. One year is enough.
Jolla has given more than enough reasons for all the hard comments here, with all the bad communication and failed promises.
Your assumption about being one of my “targets” is spot on. But fear not, you are not alone. You are unfortunately only one of many who have thrown about all kinds of insults and incorrect statements. Much of which has now been refuted by this blog, i.e. all statements about Jolla not planning to offer refunds – not to mention everyone who seemed to have inside knowledge about the decision to not offer refunds already having been taken.
In my view you and many others owe Juhani Lassila (in particular as he was the target for so many unjust accusations and insults) an excuse. No one can force you to offer such an excuse of course, you are free to not offer it.
Likewise, I am free to consider the whole lot of you tactless if you don’t 🙂
What I read here is just another promise for something in the future.
I swore to myself not to intervene anymore here, but at least now I see a change in style of communication, hence a change of reaction on my side.
For me works in a very simple way, I pay, I get something.
I didn’t receive anything so far but promises that were not kept. To whom do we owe an apology? I am sorry for what happened to this company, but I know I owe them nothing.
I really love the “blame the victim” culture. Jolla has been making empty promises and telling half-truths for over one year, and I should apologise for being upset now that they finally assumed their failure to deliver, made a few excuses, and made some more promises?
As I wrote, and you either didn’t read or understand, if they had delivered the tablet or fully refunded everyone, then I would apologise.
This Kjetil guy is getting on my nerves. Did we got our refund? NO! Did we got our email regarding refund? NO! Why would anyone apologize for telling the truth? Jolla did apologize too many times, but from what I’ve read, their apology doesn’t mean a thing. When they return my money back, then I will think if I will ever apology for pulling me by a nose for a year now…!
I’ve got a suggestion for the collaborationist faction here, but I’ll keep it to myself.
Whoa man, you really ARE an amazing person, that German guy was right about you. After all hypocrisy and blatant lies that Jolla fed us during last half of a year you suggest US to apologize?.. At most I owe Jolla to accept THEIR apology for my killed nerve cells, if – and when – I will actually see my money on my bank account. Until then this post is just a yet another promise, and Jolla had kept NONE of its promises.
When there are some positive news you find it appropriate to follow up with more lies. Why am I not surprised?
what are the lies? ScumCoder is right 100%
May I suggest something? Since you are hardcore belieber :D…., I think that you and Ossi can donate all your money to Jolla, and make some print screen of that bank transfer and upload it here so it is publicly available. So you both can show us that you are true fans… What do you say?
Since a print screen can’t in any way be manipulated or fabricated I think I will pick you up on that idea. At least I will consider it after I have seen your sincere apology.
Print screen can’t be manipulated? Hm, have you ever heard of Adobe Photoshop or Gimp? Btw. Apology? for what???
Btw, you did notice sarcasm about print screen, right?
But you didn’t, and now try to make us believe you were sarcastic in the first place, too funny x)
No, actually you got me… I haven’t just mentioned photoshop in purpose… 😛
+1 You sir, said it all…
Why that? Add insult o injury? Just because they finally found the balls to stand to the word they gave in IGG?
May I suggest not to piss off people anymore than they already are?
@Kjetil Kilhavn: You’re right, a few people should apologize. Not because of this one blog post, however. It didn’t add much to the information we already had. Those people are are just rude, lacking any education probably. If they don’t applogize for the many, many lies they spread over the last 6 months or so, their parents should: There’s no excuse for such a failure in education.
Anyway, they didn’t apologize before and they won’t do it now. The circumstances haven’t changed only because yet another blog post was published. Prometheus and his socket puppets will continue spreading their lies and bashing.
Concerning lies: http://heise.de/-3086945
For all non German-speaking folks, the vital information in the linked article is: “a former Jolla developer told heise (that’s the name of the magazine) the financial problems were already perceptible in late summer”.
Your loyalty to a company and a product you love are totally okay with me, but you cannot ask everybody to stick to the facts and look the other way when facts come up thta clearly indicate that Jolla screwed up.
Amen to that.
@eMeM Actually, Jolla has been in financial problems since day 1. They always managed to make it from one financing round to the next, generating losses (and I’m not talking hundreds or thousands here) in between. This is not the surprise you’re trying to make of it.
“Q: Was the August-September pre-order campaign built to save the project? Were you in financial trouble already back then?
A: No. During the autumn we were still very confident that we could ship the devices according to the new schedule after the unexpected delays.”
“a former Jolla developer told heise (that’s the name of the magazine) the financial problems were already perceptible in late summer”.
That doesn’t go together, no matter how you put it. But that’s only my opinion. You have yours, which I had the pleasure of reading about for a year now, learning that nothing can shake your believe in Jolla. I’m hoping everything turns out good for all the people involved, too. But I can still honor the fact, that they apparently weren’t completely honest with us.
All the best
@eMeM: It might be a lack of personal experience when you think that a tight budget and financing troubles always mean you cannot achieve your goals. If this were the case, not one single startup would succeed, not one of the projects I’d worked on during the last years could have been a success. Heck, even I myself am in financial trouble every now and then and still manage to successfully run my life. HHow should these two sentences be connected?
Q: Were you in financial trouble already back then? (August-September)
A: No.
3rd party: financial problems were perceptible in late summer.
??? I think now you’re trying really hard to not see it. But that’s okay for me.
I know budgets in IT projects are tight. Always. My “personal experience” is 10+ years of working in the IT field. So it’s not “lacking” and there is no need to be so cendescending. I’m really not after playing “who’s got the most profound expertise” here.
No hard feelings. I salute your indestructable belief in Jolla and I admire your passion about the project.
I feel a little cheated. And I am entitled to my opinion and voicing it here like everyone else.
Not everyone who expresses scepticism towards Jolla, based on last year’s experience, is a liar that wants to destroy them.
I would love to see them succeed and I was very impressed by Sailfish.
But I think everybody here knows (admitting it or not) the whole tablet thing wasn’t Jolla’s brightest example of excellence…
Have a good one,
MM
The sensible thing to do is to continue operating as if the finances are going to be OK, so long as you have a fair reason to believe they will be.
From the statements I have seen Jolla had no reason to believe that the finances would not be OK until the financing round was delayed this winter. But then again, I base that on the statements I have seen, I have no first-hand knowledge about their outlook on the financial situation last summer.
When you write that Jolla were not completely honest with us, is that meant as ”Jolla told us things that were not true”, or “Jolla did not tell us everything about their company, their plans, their finances, their negotiations”. I would say the former is equal to not being honest, the latter is not in conflict with being honest.
What lies?
Jolla took my money for a tablet to be delivered almost a year ago, but didn’t.
They asked me to pay tax for the tablet in October, but didn’t deliver.
Now they claim they will deliver mine (but not all the others) – but I still don’t have it.
Why should I trust them? They claimed to get me my tablet so often, but never did! I will believe it when I have it.
Same with the refunds. They claim they will do that, but it will take months, and not a single cent was given back yet. I’ll believe it when I see it!
Jolla screwed up, communicated badly in a way that it’s reasonable to call them liars – they weren’t straight with us for months.
I’m not gonna apologize for Jolla taking my money and failing to deliver what they promised me. You know, because my parents taught me to actually do the things I promise to do.
@Turbinenreiter: It would be a lie if they had known back then (when they collected the money) that they wouldn’t be able to deliver. But there was no way for them to know. So it cannot be a lie.
The decision not to deliver the tablets was taken after Christmas.
There are two words that you guys abuse constantly: “promise” and “lie”. When a company announces a product, it’s not a promise. It’s an announcement. A promise is something personal. There’s a difference between “I’ll come to your birthday party.” and “I’ll come to your birthday party, you can rely on that. I promise.” The first is a statement about my current plans and both of us know that circumstances can change. The second is a commitment that I’ll do my best to visit you even if circumstances change. In business, companies don’t make promises. They tell you what their current plans are based on the circumstances.
A lie is when you knowingly and intentionally tell the truth. Announcing future events that just don’t happen the way you would expect cannot be a lie. I’m not aware of any single lie by Jolla. But there were lots of lies by people here in the comments section that they should apoligize for.
Jesus Christ, you’re thick in it.
On SLUSH Mister CEO promised that all tablets will be delivered. He personally promised.
Why do you even bother?
You’re damn right – he’s thick.
“A lie is when you knowingly and intentionally tell the truth.”
Your chronic difficulty to understand the most straightforward and obvious facts or events, as well as your constant struggle with the whole world in hope to make *it* comply with your neurotic, insane, delusional requirements come from this particular take of yours on reality and basic, simple, common sense. It all adds up now. You’re sick. You need help; professional help. Please consult.
@ossi1967 & Kjetil Kilhavn
You really are extraordinarily smug. And wrong.
As others have pointed-out, and as Jolla have, now partially, done; it’s the offender who apologises, not the victims.
If Jolla had posted like this from the outset, identifying problems and being open, then most of the “insults” (read forceful opinions!) would have been posted.
that should read: “…would NOT have been posted…”
@Ossi Did you take your medicine today?
Either I misunderstood the refund processing, or someone else misunderstood it.
The way I understood it all those who were to receive refunds would receive half the amount now, and then the rest of the amount later. That would mean a lot of extra expenses and time spent to refund the money as they would have to handle twice as many payments. So, it was probably me who misunderstood. Let’s hope for smooth sailing so everyone who wants a refund can get one.
It could be worth a try: https://together.jolla.com/question/128034/take-pre-orders-for-the-first-3rd-party-tablet-running-sailfish-os/
At least those of us who want a tablet running Sailfish OS and are willing to wait for one could see this as a preferred option. Not only would it help Jolla keep the Sailfish OS development in focus, it would also (hopefully) help get a tablet with Sailfish OS to the market. To me the money contributed to the Indiegogo campaign is “sunk costs” in the sense that I don’t expect them back. If I get them back I will just “waste” them on something, I won’t set them aside to buy a tablet.
I propably will not get the tablet, but this is good news anyway 🙂
Dear Antti Saarnio,
thanks for finally delivering a clear and unambiguous message and a path forward. I would have loved to hold the tablet in my hands, but I can live without it. It would be nice if you endorse the Fairphone2 port officially at some point, so that I can finally enjoy Sailfish OS.
As to the reimbursement: I realize that all the transfer and admin costs would add up to quite some sum, and I am very willing to just let things rest as they are. Giving the message that you have just given was a much more important token of respect towards your backers!
Best of luck to Jolla. Sail on!
+1
I’d love for Jolla to make SFOS on Fairphone2 official.
It would certainly convince me to donate my tablet refund and get another Fairphone.
Could you ask the backers who will be able to get the tablets first if they want them or a refund? Just so that us “late” backers also have a chance 😉
If Jolla actually sends some tablets out (I will doubt it until I see it), I will get one. I already finished my order in mid-October, payed taxes and all. I’m somewhere around #240 in the list.
Thin is, I don’t want the tablet anymore. But I also don’t want to wait on the refund for months or years, or even risk not being refunded at all (no trust for them left).
It’s a 64GB tablet, tax already paid. I’d give it to you, unopened and untouched for the same price I paid for it.
Does that sound fair?
I don’t want to profit or anything, I just want to leave all that behind me and get my money back as fast as possible.
I’d like to take your tablet 😀
I will pay the delivery costs.
Thanks.
One important answer is missing: when will a tablet running SFOS be available?
all official (community) ports are listed here: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris 🙂 so there is an incomplete port for the old nexus 7 2012 maybe someone pick it up?
besides this there is a very talented guy with his raspberry pi port… build a tablet yourself; https://sailpi.wordpress.com/installation/ 😉
(yeah i know that is both not a real option for all day use 🙁 )
Well yes. But as you say: no real option for all day use. I just would consider to buy one, if it were available. But I lived without a tablet till now, so I can go on without one. Have an ebook reader though …
Giving up is not a solution without any reasonable
alternative.However, “Won’t Get Fooled Again”.
I want Jolla products. Jolla phone is the best, please make new tablet and phone. Shut up and take my money.
*polite golf clapping*
Now that Jolla has agreed to this course of action and refunding, it comes down to upholding your commitments.
First deathly date: March 31st. Under 99% of people’s reasonable expections this is the latest date that Jolla must do the first half refunds by. Anything else and there will now be even more kvetching and lawsuits for failure to uphold contract.
Second deathly Date: December 31st. Again, this is the latest date that Jolla must do the second half refunds by. Same potential of kvetching and lawsuits.
Frankly this is the optimal solution for me because the Jolla Tablet is now so far behind bleeding edge that it no longer makes sense for me, nor would I want a Jolla Tablet as the lack of native applications makes it effectively useless.
I disagree with your opinion that the hardware is outdated, but you are definitely right about the deadlines. “Q1/2016” is as unambiguous as it can get. (Not for Ossi or Kjetil, of course).
Effectively useless? Far from it.
The shortage of applications is an issue for the phone as well. For some it is a real problem, for many primarily a perceived problem.
No matter how many applications I had available, more than 80% of the time I used the Jolla Tablet (which I am not likely to get) I would be using the browser or email application.
Some of the remaining time would be spent using other applications which are available as native. Much of the remaining time would be spent using applications which run on Sailfish via the Android support (e.g. Kindle).
Then there is a portion of time which I would have spent in meaningless games less entertaining than the native moose game (can’t recall the name, it has been uninstalled since I didn’t find it very entertaining).
There is still a small portion of time left. It would have been spent in applications which I really would miss not having available for a tablet running Sailfish OS. That small portion of time does not make it “effectively useless”.
Perhaps you overlooked the preamble to that paragraph. Let’s try again
“Frankly this is the optimal solution for me because the Jolla Tablet is now so far behind bleeding edge that it no longer makes sense for me, nor would I want a Jolla Tablet as the lack of native applications makes it effectively useless.”
90% of my use case is location based Augmented Reality game. Because there’s only going to be ~1000 total tablets, the game producer won’t create a native client. Using the Alien/Dalvik android port is almost a instantaneous no-appeal ban due to the abuses that have been conducted in the past.
If there were 10k (or more) users, I might have been able to convince the company to let a fan supported port go through. Not on 1000 hobbyists.
I was not disagreeing with that being the optimal solution for you, merely protesting against your statement that the tablet would be effectively useless.
I thought the user base on Sailfish OS had exceeded 10 thousand (phones) long ago. Unless the game is completely useless on phones (and that would then apply equally to phones running other operating systems) I don’t see why the tablet should be so important. There are a lot more phones around than tablets, and I believe that applies to all the operating systems.
Pressed the submit button too soon…
Anyway, interesting use case for a tablet and very different from everyone I know, but I don’t know many gamers at all – and those I do know use PCs or game machines.
Have been following these threads for some time and have had to hold myself back from writing increasingly negative comments, as I don’t think they’re constructive to anything in this case.
I’m glad that you have made a decision on refunds and hope that you can follow through on your promise.
Really do up hope Jolla has a future, but please do follow through on your promise, look at how you can rebuild your community and above all else take a serious look at how you communicate with your followers/supporters.
Is there a course of action if you don’t need/want the refund? (i.e. “donating” the refund)…just ignoring the email?
The good thing is that since noone knows if he is part of the first half due to blurry communication, they can make us all wait for one year without refunding us 🙂
They are too good.
Dude, half the money. Not half the people.
We will see. I think the sentence is vague as usual. It could be half of the backers.
I am pretty convinced that they mean half the backers, but it might be another example of bad communication by jolla.
Thanks for the news. Hope Jolla can continue developing Sailfish OS after this throwback!
You have my support!
Wouldn’t open-sourcing Silica and other parts of the OS that are still closed-source help you with the development (and financially)?
Anyway, good to see the company is running again! 🙂
So… no change to get a tablet with Sailfish OS then? Pity. I guess it’s time to start figuring out how to Ubuntu Touch a Galaxynote 10.1.
If you want Sailfish on a tablet, check this out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/hp-touchpad/other/sailfishos-2-0-touchpad-t3226902
After all this Monty Python show, I don’t want to see Jolla or Sailfish. Ever again.
The main issue here is, that Jolla as a Finnish company has broken not only the trust of their trusted customers, but also the Finnish law.
The company can now be sued by all the backers who don’t receive their tablet with the following laws.
20.1.1978/38,
Yleiset säännökset
1 §
Tämä laki koskee kulutushyödykkeiden tarjontaa, myyntiä ja muuta markkinointia elinkeinonharjoittajilta kuluttajille. Lakia sovelletaan myös, kun elinkeinonharjoittaja välittää hyödykkeitä kuluttajille.
myöntämää etuutta.
2 §
Mitä tässä laissa säädetään kaupasta on sovellettava myös vaihtoon.
2 a § (21.1.2005/29)
Tämän lain 3, 4 ja 6 a luvun säännökset sekä 6 luvun säännökset kotimyynnistä koskevat soveltuvin osin takauksesta ja vierasvelkapanttauksesta annetussa laissa (361/1999) tarkoitettujen yksityistakaajien ja yksityisten pantinantajien sitoumuksia luotonantajille.
3 § (5.1.1994/16)
Kulutushyödykkeellä tarkoitetaan tässä laissa tavaroita, palveluksia sekä muita hyödykkeitä ja etuuksia, joita tarjotaan luonnollisille henkilöille tai joita tällaiset henkilöt olennaisessa määrässä hankkivat yksityistä talouttaan varten.
myöntämää etuutta.
2 §
Mitä tässä laissa säädetään kaupasta on sovellettava myös vaihtoon.
2 a § (21.1.2005/29)
Tämän lain 3, 4 ja 6 a luvun säännökset sekä 6 luvun säännökset kotimyynnistä koskevat soveltuvin osin takauksesta ja vierasvelkapanttauksesta annetussa laissa (361/1999) tarkoitettujen yksityistakaajien ja yksityisten pantinantajien sitoumuksia luotonantajille.
3 § (5.1.1994/16)
Kulutushyödykkeellä tarkoitetaan tässä laissa tavaroita, palveluksia sekä muita hyödykkeitä ja etuuksia, joita tarjotaan luonnollisille henkilöille tai joita tällaiset henkilöt olennaisessa määrässä hankkivat yksityistä talouttaan varten.
4 § (5.1.1994/16)
Kuluttajana pidetään tässä laissa luonnollista henkilöä, joka hankkii kulutushyödykkeen pääasiassa muuhun tarkoitukseen kuin harjoittamaansa elinkeinotoimintaa varten.
5 § (5.1.1994/16)
Elinkeinonharjoittajalla tarkoitetaan tässä laissa luonnollista henkilöä taikka yksityistä tai julkista oikeushenkilöä, joka tuloa tai muuta taloudellista hyötyä saadakseen ammattimaisesti pitää kaupan, myy tai muutoin tarjoaa kulutushyödykkeitä vastiketta vastaan hankittaviksi.
6 § (5.1.1994/16)
6 § on kumottu L:lla 5.1.1994/16.
2 luku (29.8.2008/561)
Markkinointi ja menettelyt asiakassuhteessa
1 § (29.8.2008/561)
Hyvän tavan vastaisen markkinoinnin ja sopimattoman menettelyn kielto
Markkinointi ei saa olla hyvän tavan vastaista eikä siinä saa käyttää kuluttajien kannalta sopimatonta menettelyä. Sopimatonta menettelyä ei saa käyttää myöskään asiakassuhteessa.
2 § (29.8.2008/561)
Markkinoinnin hyvän tavan vastaisuus
Markkinointia pidetään hyvän tavan vastaisena, jos se on selvästi ristiriidassa yleisesti hyväksyttyjen yhteiskunnallisten arvojen kanssa ja erityisesti jos:
1) se loukkaa ihmisarvoa taikka uskonnollista tai poliittista vakaumusta;
2) siinä esiintyy sukupuoleen, ikään, etniseen tai kansalliseen alkuperään, kansalaisuuteen, kieleen, terveydentilaan, vammaisuuteen, seksuaaliseen suuntautumiseen tai muuhun henkilöön liittyvään seikkaan perustuvaa syrjintää; taikka
3) siinä suhtaudutaan hyväksyvästi toimintaan, jossa vaarannetaan terveyttä, yleistä turvallisuutta tai ympäristöä ilman, että tällaisen toiminnan esittämiseen on markkinoitavaan hyödykkeeseen liittyvää asiallista perustetta.
Alaikäisille suunnattua tai alaikäiset yleisesti tavoittavaa markkinointia pidetään hyvän tavan vastaisena erityisesti, jos siinä käytetään hyväksi alaikäisen kokemattomuutta tai herkkäuskoisuutta, jos se on omiaan vaikuttamaan haitallisesti alaikäisen tasapainoiseen kehitykseen tai jos siinä pyritään sivuuttamaan vanhempien mahdollisuus toimia täysipainoisesti lapsensa kasvattajina. Hyvän tavan vastaisuutta arvioitaessa otetaan huomioon markkinoinnin yleisesti tavoittamien alaikäisten ikä ja kehitystaso sekä muut olosuhteet.
3 § (29.8.2008/561)
Menettelyn sopimattomuus
Menettelyä pidetään sopimattomana, jos se on:
1) elinkeinotoiminnassa yleisesti hyväksyttävän asianmukaisen menettelytavan vastainen; ja
2) omiaan selvästi heikentämään kuluttajan kykyä tehdä perusteltu ostopäätös tai kulutushyödykkeeseen liittyvä muu päätös ja johtamaan siihen, että kuluttaja tekee päätöksen, jota hän ei ilman menettelyä olisi tehnyt.
Sopimattomina pidetään erityisesti menettelyjä, jotka ovat 4–14 §:n vastaisia.
Jos menettely on suunnattu tietylle kuluttajaryhmälle, menettelyn sopimattomuutta arvioidaan tämän kuluttajaryhmän näkökulmasta. Jos menettely on omiaan heikentämään sellaisten kuluttajien päätöksentekoa, jotka ovat erityisen alttiita vaikuttamiselle ikänsä, vammansa tai herkkäuskoisuutensa vuoksi, ja elinkeinonharjoittajan olisi pitänyt se kohtuudella ymmärtää, menettelyn sopimattomuutta arvioidaan tällaisen kuluttajaryhmän näkökulmasta.
myöntämää etuutta.
2 §
Mitä tässä laissa säädetään kaupasta on sovellettava myös vaihtoon.
2 a § (21.1.2005/29)
Tämän lain 3, 4 ja 6 a luvun säännökset sekä 6 luvun säännökset kotimyynnistä koskevat soveltuvin osin takauksesta ja vierasvelkapanttauksesta annetussa laissa (361/1999) tarkoitettujen yksityistakaajien ja yksityisten pantinantajien sitoumuksia luotonantajille.
3 § (5.1.1994/16)
Kulutushyödykkeellä tarkoitetaan tässä laissa tavaroita, palveluksia sekä muita hyödykkeitä ja etuuksia, joita tarjotaan luonnollisille henkilöille tai joita tällaiset henkilöt olennaisessa määrässä hankkivat yksityistä talouttaan varten.
4 § (5.1.1994/16)
Kuluttajana pidetään tässä laissa luonnollista henkilöä, joka hankkii kulutushyödykkeen pääasiassa muuhun tarkoitukseen kuin harjoittamaansa elinkeinotoimintaa varten.
5 § (5.1.1994/16)
Elinkeinonharjoittajalla tarkoitetaan tässä laissa luonnollista henkilöä taikka yksityistä tai julkista oikeushenkilöä, joka tuloa tai muuta taloudellista hyötyä saadakseen ammattimaisesti pitää kaupan, myy tai muutoin tarjoaa kulutushyödykkeitä vastiketta vastaan hankittaviksi.
6 § (5.1.1994/16)
6 § on kumottu L:lla 5.1.1994/16.
2 luku (29.8.2008/561)
Markkinointi ja menettelyt asiakassuhteessa
1 § (29.8.2008/561)
Hyvän tavan vastaisen markkinoinnin ja sopimattoman menettelyn kielto
Markkinointi ei saa olla hyvän tavan vastaista eikä siinä saa käyttää kuluttajien kannalta sopimatonta menettelyä. Sopimatonta menettelyä ei saa käyttää myöskään asiakassuhteessa.
2 § (29.8.2008/561)
Markkinoinnin hyvän tavan vastaisuus
Markkinointia pidetään hyvän tavan vastaisena, jos se on selvästi ristiriidassa yleisesti hyväksyttyjen yhteiskunnallisten arvojen kanssa ja erityisesti jos:
1) se loukkaa ihmisarvoa taikka uskonnollista tai poliittista vakaumusta;
2) siinä esiintyy sukupuoleen, ikään, etniseen tai kansalliseen alkuperään, kansalaisuuteen, kieleen, terveydentilaan, vammaisuuteen, seksuaaliseen suuntautumiseen tai muuhun henkilöön liittyvään seikkaan perustuvaa syrjintää; taikka
3) siinä suhtaudutaan hyväksyvästi toimintaan, jossa vaarannetaan terveyttä, yleistä turvallisuutta tai ympäristöä ilman, että tällaisen toiminnan esittämiseen on markkinoitavaan hyödykkeeseen liittyvää asiallista perustetta.
Alaikäisille suunnattua tai alaikäiset yleisesti tavoittavaa markkinointia pidetään hyvän tavan vastaisena erityisesti, jos siinä käytetään hyväksi alaikäisen kokemattomuutta tai herkkäuskoisuutta, jos se on omiaan vaikuttamaan haitallisesti alaikäisen tasapainoiseen kehitykseen tai jos siinä pyritään sivuuttamaan vanhempien mahdollisuus toimia täysipainoisesti lapsensa kasvattajina. Hyvän tavan vastaisuutta arvioitaessa otetaan huomioon markkinoinnin yleisesti tavoittamien alaikäisten ikä ja kehitystaso sekä muut olosuhteet.
3 § (29.8.2008/561)
Menettelyn sopimattomuus
Menettelyä pidetään sopimattomana, jos se on:
1) elinkeinotoiminnassa yleisesti hyväksyttävän asianmukaisen menettelytavan vastainen; ja
2) omiaan selvästi heikentämään kuluttajan kykyä tehdä perusteltu ostopäätös tai kulutushyödykkeeseen liittyvä muu päätös ja johtamaan siihen, että kuluttaja tekee päätöksen, jota hän ei ilman menettelyä olisi tehnyt.
Sopimattomina pidetään erityisesti menettelyjä, jotka ovat 4–14 §:n vastaisia.
Jos menettely on suunnattu tietylle kuluttajaryhmälle, menettelyn sopimattomuutta arvioidaan tämän kuluttajaryhmän näkökulmasta. Jos menettely on omiaan heikentämään sellaisten kuluttajien päätöksentekoa, jotka ovat erityisen alttiita vaikuttamiselle ikänsä, vammansa tai herkkäuskoisuutensa vuoksi, ja elinkeinonharjoittajan olisi pitänyt se kohtuudella ymmärtää, menettelyn sopimattomuutta arvioidaan tällaisen kuluttajaryhmän näkökulmasta.
4 § (29.8.2008/561)
Markkinoinnin tunnistettavuus
Markkinoinnista on käytävä selkeästi ilmi sen kaupallinen tarkoitus sekä se, kenen lukuun markkinoidaan.
5 § (29.8.2008/561)
Sekaannuksen vaara
Vertaileva mainonta tai muu markkinointi ei saa aiheuttaa sekaannuksen vaaraa elinkeinonharjoittajan ja kilpailijan tavaramerkkien, toiminimien tai muiden erottavien tunnusten taikka hyödykkeiden kesken, jos se on omiaan johtamaan siihen, että kuluttaja tekee ostopäätöksen tai muun kulutushyödykkeeseen liittyvän päätöksen, jota hän ei ilman tällaista markkinointia olisi tehnyt.
6 § (29.8.2008/561)
Kielto antaa totuudenvastaisia tai harhaanjohtavia tietoja
Markkinoinnissa tai asiakassuhteessa ei saa antaa totuudenvastaisia tai harhaanjohtavia tietoja, jos tiedot ovat omiaan johtamaan siihen, että kuluttaja tekee ostopäätöksen tai muun kulutushyödykkeeseen liittyvän päätöksen, jota hän ei ilman annettuja tietoja olisi tehnyt.
Totuudenvastaiset tai harhaanjohtavat tiedot voivat koskea erityisesti:
1) kulutushyödykkeen olemassaoloa, saatavuutta, lajia, laatua, määrää ja muita keskeisiä ominaisuuksia;
2) kulutushyödykkeen alkuperää, valmistustapaa ja -aikaa, käyttöä ja käytön vaikutuksia sekä hyödykkeelle tehtyjen testien tuloksia;
3) kulutushyödykkeen hintaa tai sen määräytymisen perusteita, erityistä hintaetua ja maksuehtoja;
4) kulutushyödykkeen toimitusaikaa ja muita toimitusehtoja;
5) myyntimenettelyn luonnetta, asiakaspalvelua sopimuksen teon jälkeen ja asiakasvalitusten käsittelyä;
6) huollon, korjausten ja varaosien tarvetta ja saatavuutta;
7) elinkeinonharjoittajan tai hänen edustajansa henkilöllisyyttä, yhteystietoja, ominaisuuksia ja asemaa markkinoilla sekä heidän saamiansa palkintoja ja tunnustuksia;
8) elinkeinonharjoittajan oikeuksia ja velvollisuuksia, mukaan lukien sitoumusta noudattaa käytännesääntöihin sisältyviä velvoitteita;
9) kuluttajan oikeuksia, velvollisuuksia ja riskejä.
7 § (29.8.2008/561)
Olennaisten tietojen antamatta jättäminen
Markkinoinnissa tai asiakassuhteessa ei saa jättää antamatta sellaisia asiayhteys huomioon ottaen olennaisia tietoja, jotka kuluttaja tarvitsee ostopäätöksen tai muun kulutushyödykkeeseen liittyvän päätöksen tekemiseksi ja joiden puuttuminen on omiaan johtamaan siihen, että kuluttaja tekee päätöksen, jota hän ei olisi riittävin tiedoin tehnyt.
Arvioitaessa tietojen riittävyyttä otetaan huomioon tietojen selkeys, ymmärrettävyys ja oikea-aikaisuus, käytettyyn viestimeen liittyvät rajoitteet sekä elinkeinonharjoittajan muut toimenpiteet olennaisten tietojen antamiseksi kuluttajille.
7 § (29.8.2008/561)
Olennaisten tietojen antamatta jättäminen
Markkinoinnissa tai asiakassuhteessa ei saa jättää antamatta sellaisia asiayhteys huomioon ottaen olennaisia tietoja, jotka kuluttaja tarvitsee ostopäätöksen tai muun kulutushyödykkeeseen liittyvän päätöksen tekemiseksi ja joiden puuttuminen on omiaan johtamaan siihen, että kuluttaja tekee päätöksen, jota hän ei olisi riittävin tiedoin tehnyt.
Arvioitaessa tietojen riittävyyttä otetaan huomioon tietojen selkeys, ymmärrettävyys ja oikea-aikaisuus, käytettyyn viestimeen liittyvät rajoitteet sekä elinkeinonharjoittajan muut toimenpiteet olennaisten tietojen antamiseksi kuluttajille.
Kuluttajan terveyden ja turvallisuuden kannalta tarpeelliset tiedot on aina annettava.
8 § (30.12.2013/1211)
Tiedonantovelvollisuus tarjottaessa yksilöityä kulutushyödykettä
Tarjottaessa yksilöityä kulutushyödykettä tiettyyn hintaan markkinoinnista on käytävä ilmi:
1) kulutushyödykkeen pääominaisuudet siinä laajuudessa kuin on asianmukaista ottaen huomioon kulutushyödyke ja käytetty viestin;
2) elinkeinonharjoittajan nimi ja maantieteellinen osoite sekä, jos elinkeinonharjoittaja toimii toisen elinkeinonharjoittajan asiamiehenä tai edustajana, samat tiedot hänen päämiehestään;
3) kulutushyödykkeen kokonaishinta veroineen tai, jos täsmällistä hintaa ei hyödykkeen luonteen takia kohtuudella voida ilmoittaa, hinnan määräytymisen perusteet;
4) tarvittaessa kokonaishintaan sisältymättömät toimituskulut tai, jos näitä kuluja ei voida kohtuudella laskea etukäteen, tieto siitä, että tällaisia kuluja voi aiheutua;
5) maksua, toimitusta, sopimuksen täyttämistä ja asiakasvalituksia koskevat käytännöt, jos ne poikkeavat siitä, mitä kuluttajilla on yleensä aihetta olettaa;
6) mahdollinen oikeus peruuttaa tai irtisanoa sopimus.
5 LUKU (5.1.1994/16)
Kuluttajankauppa
Under these principles, all the backers ase entitled for a refund. Fi the company will not make the refund, the backers are treated as regular customers who can demand their money back and the court can order the company to pay the funds back immediately, as the law states in cases of a refund.
ALL THE BACKERS, USE YOUR RIGHT! DEMAND THE PURCHASED PRODUCT OR IMMEDIATE REFUND. THE NOTICE TO DELIVER ONLY 540 MORE UNITS IS CONSIDERED A FRAUD, SINCE THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF CUSTOMERS WHO ARE NOT RECEIVING THEIR PURCHASED UNITS. HENCE THE COMPANY WILL BE FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY IF THEY FAIL TO DELIVER OR PAY THE REFUNDS TO THEIR CUSTOMERS, I.E. BACKERS.
If Jolla file for bankruptcy, backers will get nothing. Do you want that?
I support the action they are taking.
I will definitely look at it… Thanks for sharing.
I will not. Looks like Oompa-Loompa gibberish to me. Mind you, I quite like those little fuckers.
Might be valid for pre-orderers, but I don’t think you can apply finnish law on an crowdfunding campaign from a Chinese manufacturer (Jolla Ltd. not Jolla Oy). And if you ‘re going to push Jolla into bankruptcy you definitely end up empty handed. I know it sucks to have hands tied and its not fair to wait a year for money spent on nothing and wait another year to get it fully back. This way you might only get your revenge, but not your cash.
Didn’t notice you comment before I wrote mine… 4 minutes faster.
Jolla Asia Ltd is not Jolla? Really..? Wow, some bold statements I might say…
Perhaps you should take a look at this link:
https://jolla.com/contact/
I wouldn’t be to concerned about that – right now Antti Saarnio and Juhani Lassila are officially communicating in this matter and they are both Helsinki-based.
Hi, kewl4u. Might you consider it rude if I ask you why are you doing that now? Going to court of course is your legal right, but what exaclty are you planning to achieve by it? Unless it’s simply revenge, that wouldn’t probably be the smartest possible move.
I don’t know if Jolla has broken any laws and to be completely honest I couldn’t care less. But let’s play devil’s advocate and say that they have. They will probably lose and are forced to pay some fines and the court expenses and finally to as many backers as there are money left. That probably causes them to go bankrupt. In that case where comes the money to pay the rest of the backers? If they don’t have enough money for refunds now, how could they have it after they’ve spent it in the court?
Just speculating.
You sir have a great opinion on that 😉
So if they go bankrupt, that doesn’t mean that they would be free of returning money… In many countries if you go bankrupt, that doesn’t mean that you can lock the company out, it means that they are no longer to be in control with their financial accounts. They get an expert who is capable of getting the company out of financial problems. Also that is capable to return all the money to creditors, which Jolla is obviously not entitled… Jolla doesn’t have any legal right to keep money from creditors. They’ve broke several laws. They’ve broke IGG terms of use (and even for you Jolla “beliebers”, you need to understand that right for money refund is totally legit and morally right). So yes, we will ask for refund, and now that we have the quote of Finish law, we can ask for money to be issued NOW…!
You are making an assumption that Jolla has enough money for legal battle AND refunds “NOW”.
I don’t make anything, I don’t care about Jolla anymore… I care only about getting a full refund, NOW, not within a year as they like to present it…
That’s a hellish lot of nasty dots on top of otherwise unsuspecting and innocent letters.
Thanks for the update!
Sad to see Jolla stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Glad to hear, that there will be a solution. It would have been fine, if the tablet would have been delivered in June or during the summer. It is a pitty how things developed, i didn’t expect that. As i am one of the “late” early birds i can’t expect a tablet. I hope that you will fullfill your promises, and we get the refund. Although i think that Jolla is a great thing and you are doing a good job, i simply don’t like broken promises and don’t like to spend my money for nothing. Still i enjoy my Jolla phone, and i hope you get through the death valley and we will get another phone or tablet with sailfish, it should not be in vain. But also i would like to see the software beeing open source some day.
Great comment, considerate and polite.
FINALLY! The level of communication decreased over time to an unacceptable values. For a few months until now I was increasingly angry at Jolla. I see one positive thing in this post – but you, at Jolla, shouldn’t be happy about that, because that thing is that all of this probably won’t end as a scam. Yup, thanks to your “communication” I, quite big fan of Jolla once, started to accept such possibility.
Well, I’m also angry because I’ve had my money “frozen” for OVER A YEAR! And what I’ll get from that? Existence of a tablet OS that I can’t use on any tablet. Huge thanks to you, really -.-
And what you’ll get from that? Loss of fan, who will never-ever again help you until he sees a ready-to-buy product. I’m still fan of Sailfish, but no more fan of Jolla. You disappointed me immensely.
And now, even if you’ll reveal another Sailfish tablet in near future (with help of some other company?), I’ll probably not buy it, although I’d want it very much, because I won’t wait until your words become reality. And in the meantime I’ll probably have another tablet, or even other use for that money.
You failed me, Jolla. You failed me as no other company before, maybe except for Nokia at its fall.
Does this answer to any facts? Wait for Jolla’s email, yes, how long if you are 2015 March supporter? How strong one can rely on this information? Again waiting…
Whether the motive is certainly genuine? But do not say that the attempt to prevent complaints from taking place. When trust is gone, all thoughts come to mind.
It is so sad. Please do something solid acts.
I think it is a bad decision from Jolla to refund after most of the project part is done. Instead they could finish the project and deliver devices.
By refund Jolla just reducing the number of users. The SailfishOS 2.0 is ready for tablet, the tablet design is already done. The tablet configuration is old and production would cost less.
It remain to produce, deliver and sell more. Unless exists some serious issues with the tablet.
They can motivate backers with reduce prices for next devices, like new phones.
Anyway, at least some numbers and a decision what to expect.
“Unless exists some serious issues with the tablet.”
Well, there are serious issues with the tablet: “The supplier no longer has the needed components and many of them are no longer available”
So the tablet design is obsolete and they would have to start over.
The tablets specs were ok, 2 years ago. Today…
The issue I suspect, is not only with the suppliers, but software integration in the hardware and the hardware itself. Once the software was the hardest and most costly part, why they didn’t change the supplier? all components are even cheaper now.
Let see what issues will have backers who will receive the tablet.
Another point is: application market for SFOS tablets is dead. Who will invest money and time for 700 users.
but the tablets aare for sale in china and in india. so when they have the money to refund, they could also have the money to buy them back, or do i get this wrong?
+1
I think so too, yes. 3000+ on stock – I’m sure those dealers are willing to accept deals realizing significant rebates, instead of selling nothing / few at all. Jolla could do this for USD 400k. Financing Q1 2016 obviously permitting.
https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/?answer=125926#post-id-125926
[ not at least jolla is HK / China based as well 😉 ]
Glad you got your story straight. Btw, this isn’t news to anyone. And why are our tablets for sale in India?
OK I ordered my tablet in the first hour on Indiegogo. So perhaps I may just get this rare collector’s item.
How do I know which position on the picking list I am in? I can’t see any number on the confirmation emails I got from Indiegogo.
The first 1000 tablets were sold out during several minutes. So ordering “in the first hour” is not enough, you should have ordered in the first minute to have a chance now 🙂
Hello to Jolla and Antti,
thank you very much for your explanations about the tablet, and let the story and next so transparent as possible.
I had a BUT and to explain, and a further question to ask which was not exposed on the blog.
Let me introduce it…
Decision is down that the tablet will be out again for a small amount.
And after the explanations, i understand that is really not possible to build the product further, even if with the best motivation.
Then Jolla provide his OS for tablet too, there is currently just few ports on other tablets (most of them are android one).
But that are not fully supported, are not official too.
The only one which could have all the attention of jolla officially and fully supported is now discontinued.
Then there is again no tablet any more.
By jolla I had the ambition to get away from the actions of the big 3 (ios, android, winf).
Something European, more private sphere friendly, and transparent, from founder who is more aware from the community need. It meant for me, that i would have this for my phone and tablet (still have old android one).
Until now i’m happy with jolla and philosophy.
Do jolla have any plans for the short terms and especially for the long term concerning to have a official fully supported tablet?
How may i and others get a tablet which has sfos fully supported from jolla and officially?
Thank you very much in advance for understanding, and answering.
And enjoy for a well constructive discussion.
Cheers
PS: I put my comment here on Together too: https://together.jolla.com/question/128077/jolla-tablet-closure-but-what-else-for-the-future/
As I wrote in an answer before, the change of communication style is refreshing, but nevertheless too late.
If you had this level of transparency from the first problems, I’d probably be willing to give you a second chance.
Will I give Jolla a second chance? Maybe, I first have to digest this episode, after that if the technology is still interesting for me I’ll decide.
In the short term, I don’t see myself giving trust again.
One last thing, normally community doesn’t want empty apologies, just doesn’t want to feel cheated, remember this and you shall succeed next time.
If Jolla still has (enough) Jolla Phones in stock, wouldn’t an option to trade in a Jolla tablet contribution for a Jolla Phone shipment be good both for Jolla and contributors willing to use such an option?
Jolla would save cash as no cash refunds on those “trade in”s are needed. And contributors in turn would get a device they can use immediately.
Or are there any reasons why Jolla can not offer such a “trade in” option?
+1
I will take the refund because I already own a Jolla phone, but I agree with you.
The experience to use a Jolla SFOS device is so damn good!
Thank you for the update. I understand there is not enough time in a day to do all tasks at hand with minimal staff and budget. Key people fled. Supply chain didn’t do well. Really sad to see current version of tablet being dropped out.
I hope you have energy and inspiration to continue development and do refunds. This whole tablet episode is a big blow below belt for Jolla and Jolla community. The episode makes me think at least twice before any decision w/Jolla.
Hopefully you have brighter announcement cards in your sleeve. Looking forward to read about those, but it has to be more concrete than a promise.
Given that the Jolla tablet (the device) is available for purchase from TaoBao, why don’t you sell Sailfish OS licenses for end users? That would make Jolla some money with little complication.
AT LAST!
A decent, honest and clear statement of intent.
I only wish Jolla had produced this kind of statement 5 months ago, then most of the complaints and bad PR on these pages would never have happened.
Thanks Antti for bringing some clarity
@wittgenfrog: Is there anything in this blog post that could have been known before but wasn’t published? Most of what they write here is common knowledge. The only thing that was new for me is the exact number of tablets to be still delivered (probably not yet known in Dezember) and the exact procedure of the re-funds. Those are details, but the big picture didn’t change.
@ossi1967
Don’t be silly!!!
You take grovelling fan-ism to ludicrous lengths.
There is more actual genuine unequivocal information in this one post than in previous communication from Jolla in total.
It’s not that much, but it’s something!
Can I pay adding some more money and get anyway a tablet?
I need it.
THIS is an excellent question, I find! Hope it will be answered.
Because there will be a fixed amount of tablets available, paying more money for a tablet would mean ‘buying your place in the line’ and effectively pushing someone else off.
Would be off-limits.
I mean pay more money to help Jolla to change the old and obsolete electronic components (that seem impossible to find nowadays) with brand new ones and continue the tablet production.
Design to me is ok, also the screen is ok!
SFOS is quick enough to work well on not-so-new devices.
So in fact you’d like to pay for the development of a new tablet?
Not gonna happen..
Don’t be so sure, maybe he has a couple million € in his wallet and just really REALLY wants a jPad
Like many others I have been keeping out of this argument until we got some clear indication of the resolution of the tablet project.
I would like to summarise waht must be the views of many:
There is no visibility of any reasonably upto date product, tablet or phone which would answer the needs of most of us here in Europe, where we all believed the project was based.
How can we get hold of a phone or tablet, preferably both, which will provide security and full Sailfish functionalty that will satisfy the original backers her in Europe?
Will one of Jolla’s partners provide these?
Will I be able to do a fully supported installation on another device like the Fairphone 2 or even the Nokia tablet?
I have been waiting for 2 years now for a device that will be Google/Apple/Microsoft and the original Jolla phone did not satisfy my needs for offline and OTG working.
What is the chance that I will be able to buy some sort of device in the next year?
I am getting desperate now and am even considering Ubuntu phone Amazon controlled).
Shall I give up now and stick to my feature phone and laptop?
I don’t seem to be able to edit the typos, but apart from the obvious ones I meant of course to say “Google/Apple/Microsoft free”
You just gotta love these websites where you cannot correct anything 🙂
Let’s speculate little bit longer:
It looks like Jolla is doing some performance show for backers – again… Perhaps, this is due to MWC 2016, so they don’t get additional bad publicity. Better to keep people calm till they finish with PR, after that we might receive additional surprises of Refund option REVOKED…
Dear fellow Jolla bloggers,
So finally we have Antti Saarnio’s explanation and proposed solution for all of use who either backed the tablet or actually ordered the tablet from Jolla’s store. Here’s my 2-cents on Antti’s update:
December 31st Juhani Lassila
“However, you can be sure you will not end up empty handed. We might even have some positive surprises in stock for you.”
Lance: Well I certainly did not see any “positive surprises” in Antti Saanio’s email.
January 28th Antti Saarnio
“We have been analyzing different alternatives regarding the Jolla Tablet project situation. But no matter how you come at it, the tight financial situation remains a major constraint and therefore a main driver of the solution.”
Lance: This was expected.
“The supplier no longer has the needed components and many of them are no longer available. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done now to change this.”
Lance: This was expected.
“1. Ship remaining Tablets to Indiegogo backers: we will ship 540 units as soon as we can starting from February. This was already mentioned in Juhani’s New Year’s greeting. We realize that this is just a small portion and does not help in resolving the overall situation.”
Lance: This “small portion” was expected even though we did not know the exact number. However, IMHO these units are now just as useless as my N900 and my N9, because they will not be supported beyond the SFOS they will ship with.
“Q: I ordered the Jolla Tablet directly from the Jolla Shop in the autumn, and not from Indiegogo. What happens to my order?
A: As your transaction was a product order, you will be refunded for the total value of the purchase. No action is required from you at this point, you will receive an email confirmation about it.”
Lance: This is how it should be for those who ordered the tablet from the Jolla Shop.
“2. Refund the remaining Indiegogo contributors: Jolla aims to refund the total contribution, including shipping and all accessories. Due to the financial constraints this will happen in two parts: half of the refund will be done during Q1/2016, and the other half within a year, our financial situation permitting.”
Lance: I understand the financial challenge for Jolla and their intention here, but it is still disappointing that it is only a 50% refund in Q1/16 with the other 50% just a good faith intention.
So for now I will wait for the refund email.
Meanwhile, is there anyone in the community looking at porting SFOS2.0 onto the Nokia N1 tablet? Which has a very similar spec and chipset to the Jolla Tablet?
Just for the records, being asked – by no means negative thinking – this “solution” still is quite a sneak-away. It is settling by no means – neither fairly nor constructively.
By supporting the “people powered” tablet, jolla could realize “their” so-called crown-jewels ( aka SFOS 2 ) by convincing investors with an overwhelming willingness of support and funds collected.
In exchange, 90% of the contributors neither got realized a sustainable increase in user-base growth ( I guess that’s why the majority was willing to embark ) nor at least a trace of an adequate reward / interest rate for effectively funding jolla’s development of their “crown-jewels”. Not talking about offering a recognizing shareholership in exchange for supporting jolla’s portfolio. BTW many aspects of the SFOS 2.0 UI development had not been actively synced with the community – it has been discussed in the community if all that development work was really necessary to deliver a tablet.
Reading from the numbers of contributions, orders effectively placed past November 19th, 2014 virtually will have no chance of ever seeing something in exchange – aside their decision & commitment to support and to prefer Sailfish than something else. According to the refund plan just proposed above, the last refunds should occur by January 28th, 2017 ( “within a year” – well noted : “financial situation permitting” ).
That means half of the money contributed will have been with jolla for 2 years, 2 months, 1 week and to 2 days. For nothing appreciative in exchange at all.
Quite sobering – if not unacceptable, aside new – yet to be proven – promising surprises from the MWC 2016.
Thanks for the open words. Please keep up the good work on SailfishOS. 🙂
So i see that at the moment there is no actual hardware device on the European market supported by Jolla (beside the 661 Jolla tablets).
Is there is a plan to support some new one, like Fairphone2, official by Jolla with SailfishOS?
Or a tablet from an other manufacture?
As i understand, allow the BIG investment in SailfishOS 2.0 now the support of *many* other hardware devices *without* big changes.
Ok. I ordered the tabled plus a phone for my wife.Yes, I am an early one. Well, I can wait, no problem. My wife can’t.
More, I am a C++ programmer, and those whatever people declined my first approach. Cause: some QT-Widget not allowed. WOT?
Left to say: FU! I may tell ya where to push your phones.
Hope I get my tablet. I so want this gizmo with the new OS.
I would take the tablet, which I paid, but the refund is not an option that I can say I’m happy about. Two reasons: 1) I supported a company which I believed could make a difference. 2) After the Jolla phone, running Sailfish OS 2.0, I would have wanted to receive a tablet, which has the same degree of customizing with the native apps, and yet runs nearly all Android apps.
Since I have now been given the notice, that I will not receive the unit, I am angry for having waited so long for empty promises. There is no future for Jolla anymore, the story will end soon. The user community together with the developers will eventually abandon Sailfish OS. The only correct action would have been to produce all the orders, despite any further delays or changes in the components and other obsolete hardware. Now Jolla is giving a strong message, we can’t deliver a tablet running OS 2.0 for mass production. How would any other manufacturer want to step on this uncertain and unpredictable path? Without the Sailors the ship will not sail.
I hear you, bro. Nothing can echo my thoughts better.
Wonders when in India they indicate Jolla tablet to come for sale with SFOS:
http://www.91mobiles.com/jolla-tablet-price-in-india
€ 212
There are information on Official Website: “Click here” (and it is http://jolla.com/tablet)
There are also link to “Notify me when it’s available”, and there it says “The device you are looking for is not available in the market currently. As soon as it is available in stores, we will notify you”.
What is this and whether this is true or not?
You think that Jolla should know something.
Hi Tuomo. Jolla Tablet is not going to be on sale in India. We contacted 91mobiles and asked them to remove the release date (they even called it ‘official’), and that they did. Other information is taken from various sources.
Thank you very much!
despite of your request they are still keeping this page alive – even updating it: “Updated on:Feb 03, 2016”
would it be sooooo good ‘click magnet’? 😉
Wonders when in India they indicate Jolla tablet to come for sale with SFOS, €212. There are also link to “Notify me when it’s available”, and there it says “The device you are looking for is not available in the market currently. As soon as it is available in stores, we will notify you”.
What is this and whether this is true or not?
I did comment with the links, but it went to moderation. Someone know?
Very sad. I would really prefer to have tablet then my money back ;). Would it make any difference if some decide that Jolla can keep some of the money? Would it help to improve SailfishOS? How many would prefer to keep the money @Jolla and not want a refund. To be honest I never thought of getting it back after paying.
*Sigh*
– Wait for months/years for us to offer your money back.
– If you fail to reply to our email, we’ll assume you donated the money to us.
Are you trying to come off as dead beats or just this clueless? At this point I feel ashamed by association as user of your phone. If it takes a long time to refund all orders, so be it, but do not f***ing dare to default to people donating their money. That will mean every human and mail server error is more money for you and you will have zero incentive NOT to screw up processing refunds.
To accept donations like a respectable poor company, you should offer that as an OPT-IN when you are ready to refund. In the mean time, you should prominently display the number of people waiting for refund on your web site. That would give you the incentive to get it done.
+1
+1
+1
+0.5 (You’ll get my other +0.5 within a year, financial situation permitting.)
LMAO!!! You win this comments thread mkld.
http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss275/wyrd_fishes/win-one-internet.jpg
I haven’t yet become anti-Saarnio, I must say, despite the snark of “let’s make this [year] an ever better one than last” and “have some closure”. This aside, INSTEAD OF using OUR money to “investigate this matter“ – a costly process Jolla probably cannot and should not afford: a SUGGESTION (“people powered” okay?!): use OUR money to buy the Tabao-tablets and let THEM ship to whoever still wants them. Give us the possibility of downloading SF. AND what about keeping us informed thus “proactively” repairing your “mistake”?
Questions:
— “soon after the Indiegogo campaigns, (…) we experienced severe issues with component deliveries and with the display quality” Display issues, delivery issues a surprise? Didn’t engineers know their hardware? “Soon after” that, you started a pre-order campaign, based on „confidence”. Is this sound planning, is it well established business logic? Honest? So far, it seems the planning was faulty (surprising for people with Nokia background, perhaps this partly explains the Nokia fate) and that at no point did the Jolla tablet project “captain” have its hardware specs and supply chain under sufficient control. Someone now has a batch of tablets to make some money on the side – dishonest but effective. Dr Saarnio has no control over this either, so any promise is misguiding or at least unclear. — On November 28, 2014 (how time flies by!) I paid the gogo-“perk” to Jolla Asia Limited. So, who has filed for bankruptcy where? In any case, Jolla Asia is probably outside Finnish jurisdiction, but has my money. Finally, I do not understand this story of financial support withdrawn, then granted at a time when it should have been clear that losses caused by mismanagement and lack of funds were too large to recover from.
The proposed solutions are once again none, just promises.(cutting out the blabla): “we will ship 540 units as halfsoon as we can starting from February”, and as “to refunding, we plan to start refunding during the course of February”. Make that “at some point if at all” – speaking of closure. Reimbursing us should be a priority. “Half of the refund” means refund 100% to half the contributors, or refund the half to all?
“The supplier no longer has the needed components and many of them are no longer available. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done now to change this.” But in your November 24, 2015 „open letter” dr A. Wrote: “hardware is the easy part”. Not easy enough, it appears.
Finally, it seems to me that the Jolla specs announced an impressive piece of hardware. Bar details (like a comparatively weak battery, the lack of FM etc.) almost perfect and as far as I’m aware unequalled. The more I think of it, the more paranoid I get. Was Jolla too competitive? Has anyone undermined it? Any similarity to the Nokia developements? Or is the captain lying and everybody knows?
I strongly agree with you on this: “use OUR money to buy the Tabao-tablets and let THEM ship to whoever still wants them. Give us the possibility of downloading SF.” Very good suggestion. This stupid “feed the lawyers” game helps noone (except for the sharks, obviously).
I think this is useless: https://jolla.com/tablet/
instead of “Jolla Tablet sold out”
should be “Jolla Tablet project failed”
and instead of “Missed your chance to get the Jolla Tablet? Be the first to know about availability and other Jolla products!”
should be “Missed your chance to order Jolla Tablet? The you’re lucky that you didn’t lose your money. Be the first to know how you can lose more money with us!”
91mobiles site uses it on their site jolla-tablet-price-in-india
Expected Best Price: Rs. 14,990
Key Features Sailfish OS v2.0
On the left column there is:
Updated on: Jan 30, 2016
Users Viewed: 8,642
Official Website: Click here (http://jolla.com/tablet)
What this means who knows?
91mobiles says on it’s site:
“91mobiles.com is the largest gadget research site in India that provides tools, reviews & rich content to help people decide which gadget best suits their needs. The platform also helps users to find best prices/offers for the gadgets.
91mobiles is visited by over 8 million gadget enthusiasts every month, and ranks among the top 250 websites in India. We have a team of 60 people based in our offices in Gurgaon (HO) and Chennai. We generate close to $100 million in sales to our retail partners through 91mobiles platform.
We work with most of the leading consumer electronics & telecom brands (Samsung, Intel, Micromax, Airtel, etc.), as well as leading online retailers (eBay, Amazon, Flipkart, etc.), to help them reach 91mobiles gadget enthusiast community and to promote their products & offers with innovative ways and messaging.”
I’m 5160 on the list. Hope I see my refund THIS year – so I can buy an INTEX Sailfish OS phone – but only if they market an above mid spec 5″+ FHD AMOLED screen phone (not interested in entry level rubbish) with Australian frequencies (LTE Bands 1,3,5,7,8,28 FDD,40 TD)like my new OPPO R7 Plus.
Sail on Jolla – I am still faithful to the cause.
I am not buying this.
First of all it says aiming for closure… Nothing guaranteed.They just buying more time.
Secondly, this part…
Furthermore, due to the delays in the latest financing round it has simply become too late to produce all the tablets for the project. The supplier no longer has the needed components and many of them are no longer available. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done now to change this.
In November CEO gave us a personal guarantee (which is worth nothing as we learned) that the tablets will be delivered. Now, just 2 months later, there is no parts to build tablet. Really? Within two months you can not find parts? How the hell did you planned to ship the Pre-order tablets (initial plan Q1/2016?
It smells. Unless I hear a clear explanation for this it hard for me to believe whatever Antti is saying.
And on top of everything – 600+ tablets. Great chance for developers to create more apps. What is your plan for the future? Any other tablet projects coming up? Or is the Sailfish tablet dead and buried?
I am thinking to let Jolla have my money. Don’t want to deal with them any more in any level. Specially if I have to wait a full refund for another year and it will mean I need to fill out some forms for it. The fanboy in me is dead. Sail on or don’t… don’t care.
I have a feeling that all tablets were produced, but that they ar still in China and that the producer tries to limit their loss by selling them on Taobao. Jolla CEO probably thought that Jolla could negotiate with the producer for some way to close the deal and be able to ship those tablets to backers and customers, but that went bust. And now there’s no components to start a new production somewhere else, so that might not be a lie.
But that’s what we have asked: “can’t Jolla buy them on Taobao and reflash them?”. It should cost Jolla approximately the same no? We can see the tablets at ~200$
But again, a non-answer from Jolla:
– us: Why can’t you buy the devices on Taobao?
– Jolla: Unfortunately the manufacturer had already sold the few hundred devices to resellers before we could get them back.
-_-‘
If there were no parts for the pre-order tablets, how could there be any parts for tablets that were order later when the initial batches (pre-order + backers) were delivered? Or was the tablet only supposed to be delivered to backers and per-orders?
Before Jolla lied and deceived, I was actually waiting for the tablet to be finished so I could order one. I took probably half a-year after Jolla phone was finished before I actually order one for myself.
However, that doesn’t matter any more. Happy iPhone and iPad user now. 🙂
Byt the way:
Aim means the idea which is intended to you sometimes.
Thus, we do not accept this! Give us our tablets. please. 🙂
I am under the impression that the tablet calculation was off. Striving for super-cheapo instead of high-end. Jolla is making a mistake in this respect: Currently their main group of customers is not looking for the cheapest device. They want SailFish for all what is good about it and are willing to pay a premium. Maybe the problems could have been avoided had the tablet price been 100.- EU more? It costs what it costs.
But what I am really missing is this option: “Use the money you paid for the tablet as partial payment towards a future SailFish device, like the Fairphone 2.” You paid for a tablet that never came. But you can choose to have this money credited directly for a new device that will appear in 2016. I imagine this could be an interesting option for some.
When participating IGG I understood that I can loose my money. Now I have done it.Ordering Lastu case was my own fault. Why ordering accessories before having delivery.
When I get the invitation I will inform Jolla that they can keep my money.
I don’t understand people made their “investment” using IGG and now ask refund. It was clearly written that if the tablet failed, you loose your money.
Good luck for Jolla and you can keep my 209€.
One major question (or a group of questions) is missing from the faq:
How many tablets were produced? If the answer is more than the ones that have been/will be shipped, it’s reasonable to assume that at least the wardware of the tablets sold in Taobao might be “authentic”. So really. No need to answer to the question “What are the tablets in Taobao?” Just answer to “How many Jolla tablets were produced?”
If there is authentic Jolla tablet hardware out there, what is Jolla planning to do about it? Buying back the finished hardware would help Jolla to ship at least a bit more tablets. By reading the comments here it seems pretty obvious that not all of the backers want just the refund. There are people who think Jolla tablet hardware is worth of buying and the only thing that keeps them from doing this is the slight change that Jolla is going to get the hardware back and ship to the backers. So I’m asking: Are you planning to get the hardware back? Simple “no” is enough unless you are REALLY planning to get them back.
How exactly are you investigating the tablet situation in Taobao?
What is the case about the Indian website and official release date of Jolla tablet in India? Was the release of the tablet in India planned, but abandoned later? Was the site just a misunderstading or hoax? Is the tablet manufacturer actually producing the tablet now?
(The little I know about mobile manufacturing, is that setting up an assembly line to produce less than 1000 products is relatively expensive. Running that line again for another 1000 costs next to nothing more than the material cost. It’s a bit hard to believe that the manufacturer would do all the effort for just a couple of hundred products…)
I’d be more than happy if these questions would be answered. Keep sailing \o/.
I would really appreciate official Jolla answer here…
I could refer to ‘openness’, ‘people powered’, whatever seems to be fancy blablabla – but I say that would be just nice, instead…
I would let Jolla keep the payments for the tablet and the extras if and actually only if I can have Sailfish 2.0 installed on a tablet of my own. For instance Lenovo IdeaTab A10-70 10.1″ tablet. I can pay for that hardware and bring it to the Jolla offices myself since I live in Espoo.
Good one. Can you bring one for me, too?? 😉
May I speculate?
The hardware is no longer available because the tablets were built.
The 541 to be shipped are ones Jolla had taken custody off, and the remaining 7000 are now on Taobao. “Still investigating” is probably nothing but nonsense.
I’d venture to speculate that the factory decided to use the components they had laid out money for, to produce the remaining tablets, which they had made a production line for (hence the 600 some tablets produced as a test) and was relying on Jolla to honor some commitments made to pay for the rest.
Jolla decides not to, and gives us a non-firm refund option, where they do dishonestly claim they will repay all eventually.
I feel free to speculate that the second 50% will never happen, and that Jolla is hoping that this kills the bad publicity while they wait for us to “go away”.
I haven’t seen the positive surprise yet that Juhani offered us to speculate on.
This is somehow a valid point. The tablets might already be produced and inside the production factory. Now there would be two scenarios while considering the financial situation of Jolla. Either Jolla buys half of the existing tablets. So half of the backers get their device. The other half won’t get anything. Or all backers get half of their invested money back. I also understand that the factory won’t wait for Jolla to gather money to buy the remaining tablets some day. So anyway some tablets would end up at Taobao, etc. It’s all weird and I now tend to understand the impact and background for Jolla’s decisions.
I also tend to think that Jolla should give the factory permission to sell the tablets with Sailfish OS on it instead of Android. That would at least give the opportunity to increase the user base for Sailfish OS in China and India.
This is a serious issue. If Jolla can find money to refund the empty-handed backers, how could it not find the money to buy the Taobao tablets and deliver them to backers in the first place?
In absence of any other explanation, I doubt they *don’t* have the money. This does not bode well for the backers expecting their refund.
Probably because the factory wants Jolla to buy the entire stock and currently Jolla does not have money for that. Hence the split of refund into two batches.
One think has not been discussed. Why Nokia has not got a hand on all of this. MeeGo was Nokia’s invention, after all?
DownTwist, what an excellent idea. As I wrote earlier I don’t want my money back but using Sailfish in my IdeaPad 2 10-70 is great idea
srsly,
i waited longtime, but i really want that tablet…
is there a possibility to still stay patient in hope to get one… perhabs q3 of 2016? would wait that long… doesn’t matter anymore…
but i WANT that tablet.. ;P
..and beside that, a refund is not really a nice surprise like promised in the last post…
littlebit sad all that..
the more i think about it the more i’m pissed off…
you sold min. 10000 tablets and you gonna deliver only 650? how do you plan to get any good reputation, if you get the price for the best tablet in barcelona 2015 and now you don’t even bring it to the market? this can’t help jolla oy in any way..
+1
What about getting a Jolla phone instead of the tablet, for those who wish? If offered I think the option will be used by many. Including me.
+1
I’d be interested in getting the phone also. It’s basically just a smaller tablet anyways. And if it came unlocked. We might even be able to put it on one of those “pay as you go” plans.
agree with the said. my interest is mainly in sailfish OS and I just opted for the tablet since it should contain sailfish 2.0 already. but if not available I would like to have a phone instead as refund for the not delivered tablet too
Jolla. As soon As you fully refund all backers. They faster you potentially have new customers. As long as you still “owe” us money less likely we play nice so don’t let it take a year.
perhaps they like to have a bad publicity…
Jolla, that’s the whole result of your announcement of “We might even have some positive surprises in stock for you.”? What is the concrete surprise you announced in the New Year’s Greetings-Blogpost? That most of the backers will get a half of their money back? And how did you think will it became “a great year for Jolla and Sailfish OS – together!”? Together with whom? With the few backers getting the tablet – or a lot (future partial) refunded backers?
It seems like Jolla is running the contest “How to make people wait and understand, that they lost their money”. What they did there at JollaHQ we call “Betrug” or “Insolvenzverschleppung” in german. It doesn’t make a difference wether you don’t deliver a promised free and open “Robin-Hood”-device from Finland or if you don’t deliver a prepaid and promised car, furniture or other gadget on ebay. The man who made that great tablet-promise, Marc Dillon, left secretly and quiet a long time ago. He did’t leave because the Tablet was a great story to end. They knew that they’re not able to ship the tablets for month. And they lied to us to keep calm instead of going to the local police department.
And update by update they told us nonsense, while they didn’t act as they described in the crowdfunding campagne. The worked on software (what should be their core business), not on producing tablet.
Several fanboys here still dream the dream of freedom and openness. I know, how sweet that is, because I dreamt it for 2 years. But, believe me, it’s time to wake up. Jolla is just another case for the judgement. Sometimes the one who seems to good is evil!
they collected 2.5 mio! and now are shipping less than 700 tablets. that’s a nice “betrug”!
+1
and so many people including myself fall for this piece by piece fooling.. sry but i can’t gett rid of that impression. that’s one of the most annoying things about it..
“We have something up our sleeve yes, but we just didn’t get it into this communication.” just another example of fooling piece by piece – until everything is barred and forgotten..
Sailfish is crippled when compared to other Major OS
i dont understand how sailfish can survive if BBOS cant survive. It would be better if Jolla can partner with other player to use Tizen
FYI: #Tabletgate now known as #Tabletdisaster :
http://heise.de/-3086945
Q: If I do not want a refund, and want to donate the money to the future of Jolla. What can I do?
A: We are very happy to receive this question, thanks for the support! If you are an Indiegogo backer, you will be asked to apply for a refund. By simply ignoring this you will be donating the funds to Jolla for its exclusive use. If you are a pre-order customer (August-September 2015) and would like to donate your pre-order payment to Jolla please submit a request here.
You still have no bleeding decency, do you ????
I must request a refund ???? Are you completely off your rockers ??? You just refund my money and if you are still cheeky enough to ask for a donation, you let me opt-in for that option, not vice versa. Criminal Pack !
Well, they don’t have the money, it is as simple as that. That is why they hope that no one will ever ask for a refund. I agree, it should have been opt-in.
I love you.
Whoa whoa guys! Looks like Jolla reads our comments and updates the text of this blog post “on the fly”! Gotta re-read this post from time to time to not miss some important info
hey that’s cool, thanks for letting us know! i hope they add more details with regard to deadlines e.g. when we can expect the e-mails or updates regarding the positive surprises..
+1
Damn this lack of editing — I obviously meant to give a +1 to ScumCoder & joel72.
Active engagement from Jolla is a welcome change.
Thank you Jolla for answering (~) my question and thank you ScumCoder for pointing that out.
“(NEW)
Q: Why can’t Jolla buy these devices [Jolla Tablet with Sailfish OS in Taobao] back and ship them officially? How many devices are there available in China?
A: The approx 500 devices we aim to ship to IGG backers are from the same batch as these devices…”
I swear I just heard a sound of 10000 “clicks” from the Taobao website. (I hope people do realize how Chinese New Year affects the shipment schedules. It’d be shame if all the impatient people started to hate China now…)
“As these are not official Jolla devices, we can’t be sure what changes have been made to HW/SW. These devices might not receive software updates, and Jolla Store might not be used on them.”
If they are non-modified, will Taobao buyers then get updates? Or are all except officially shipped devices excluded from updates?
Thank you Jolla for this information. I sincerely hope you make it through and build further upon sfos. In my virw it has great potential nit onky as pure sailfish but also the ability to encapsulste android – s great security option for the future. Will though greatly miss the pure sfos Jolla tablet.
Good luck – will remain jolla user.
Thanks for the update. I understand nothing much can be done about the tablets. But what about the people who had ordered LastuCase? Will they at least get the case?
If you pledged for a LastuCase on Indigogo, you’ll get it refunded as well. Only those who bought the case directly from Lastu got it.
FYI: http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/01/jolla-confirms-the-sailfish-tablet-is-dead/
What makes me dissapointed is, that it seems that for Jolla the prodution of the tablet was not the main priority, and still maybe they don’t try all they could. In summer it was announced, that maybe Jolla will be splitted in two companies, a “hardware company”, and the one which remains now the “software company”. Its not their plan to make any hardware any more. I guess, the main reason why Marc Dillon left the company was, that they didn’t want to focus on the problem with the tablets, instead they worked on software to make further buisness. I think, they should do all to deliver as much tablets they can, buying it back from the resellers at tabao (or whatever) and give them to the backers. Still i believe, Jolla is an important project, but they left their supporters dissapointed, which are still waiting for the refund. They should do all they can to solve this problem, and then go on.
Here are some more infos regarding the Tablets in China.
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.de/2016/02/jolla-tablets-in-china.html
If there is an enterprising member of the Jolla “Community” with Chinese contacts, or at least a proper Chinese speaker, there would be an opening to make a small profit and supply these to some of us. It would be well worth the gamble of trying to get Sailfish running properly and if that fails to fall back to Android. I for one would be interested in buying, it seems a waste to just have Android on them.
The question is: is it really the same hardware? i don’t think so. so as komented on that post, nobody knowas what the chinese are selling and it is not clear, that sailfish can be run on that platform. so that is too risky. When we buy chinese Tablets, we support the false machanisms of business which are prospering in china like copying and stealing designs in every branche.
You: “The question is: is it really the same hardware? i don’t think so.”
This blog post: “The approx 500 devices we aim to ship to IGG backers are from the same batch as these devices.”
-_-
“When we buy chinese Tablets, we support the false machanisms of business which are prospering in china like copying and stealing designs in every branche.”
Oh my Gott.
Chinese people developed the hardware of Jolla Tablet, Chinese people manufactured this tablet *and* your Jolla phone, and you are bashing on them? Believe me that even if the Jolla tablet was actually designed by Jolla, *nobody* in China would waste his time to make bootleg copies of it.
srsly, even after i read the news written on reviewjolla, i think they should buy those tablets from taobao and shipp them to those who will take the risk.. (i would!)
i waited that long and i think 40% of tablets delivered is much better than 661 out of 12000…
+ 1
I’m thinking of taking the risk now and buying the tablet from Taobao. Then maybe I would get the refound so it would be like getting the tablet.
Basically I think so too.
It should be no problem for them, if the HW was produced to jolla requirements – after all jolla’s credo always mentioned “Power to Hackers” and they have a China-based office in HK as well.
The thing gets difficult if the manufacturer cleared the warehouse mixing up remaining AiGo tablets with jolla tablets – but then a jolla representative has to visit the seller(s) on location for inspecting the packages.
By the way I’m sure the seller(s) are willing to grant significant rebates, if they’ll decide to repurchase all. There will be no second customer like this.
But I don’t know if jolla thinks that extra effort ( still ) is worth the growing userbase. The basically bad news of failure already spread.
…. btw only 8 people up-voted this option until I closed the poll ( running since December 18th ) with the new message from jolla:
https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/?answer=125926#post-id-125926
———-
20 people feared a destroyed supply chain :
https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/?answer=124810#post-id-124810
———-
…. maybe many just gave up caring.
… or as @JSApoulsbo put it above :
“Don’t know whether to congratulate you or send my condolences. Grats: You might get one.
Condolences: You are getting a piece of abandon-ware, … “
+12000
Written by November 20th 2015 the following was meant to become a reply to an upcoming – usually longer pending – jolla blogpost which eventually became the “Open letter to Jolla community”. I then decided not to post it due to the vagueness of the then situation and the essentially powerless management.
I still find it quite hefty that it had not been made very clear to the investors of the new round that a 10k self-established(!) user-base which would spread SFOS on jolla-branded hardware globally was on stake and needed to be served under any circumstances. How to reconvince them ( ever ) again ? Relying on experimental community ports solely ?
[ Get me right, highly admired community porters : you are doing this very well considering you’re achieving this in your spare time ! d (o_o) ]
Those 10k contributors were by no means all nerds or Bohemians, but a particular bunch of sensitized people willing to support the realization of a promising community-empowered, open-minded and privacy-respecting approach. This conviction constituted a next step for the young movement since the introduction of the jolla phone.
If in contrast Barcelona 2016 would not bring anything real convincing at all, even I’ll be probably disembarking for alternatives, to settle for a different peace of mind …
———————–
So in the following my thoughts of last November :
# Be(come) agile. Stay two steps ahead.
Purge, consolidate & don’t be snobbish. Let efficiency arguments decide. Ask your community before rushing. Don’t operate sub-optimally.
Don’t loose gifted, charismatic & vital faces / sales(wo)men such as M. Dillon. Invest in them – and don’t stop reading just because I said this ;).
Make thinking two steps ahead a standard attitude – to have one to react. Don’t be clueless. Maintain a pioneering competence.
# Keep, focus & build the brand.
Further concentrate on building a coherent “unlike” brand & perception.
Keep a neat & effective marketing division which should mainly develop new markets & channels & assist the CEO to realize advantageous HW / SFOS partnerships.
Selling authentic jolla-developed devices is crucial for profits. It’s more difficult to sell SFOS alone. You still have to gain a critical proliferation. Remember the pre-Jobs era at Apple with those Mac clones ? The Apple message got lost: the clones didn’t differentiate perceivably from the ordinary industry PC. No reason for a MacOS to further exist.
Maybe you reconsider giving away/up your HW division …
IMHO the current jolla phone is an authentic Scandinavian icon such as the Bojesen monkey, the Koskinen block lamp or Aalto’s Savoy vase. Unfortunately not recognized as as it deserves to, the jolla phone has been timeless & distinctively elegant since its conception in its own right. This distinction in design is missing with other devices such as the Fairphone or the Puzzlephone
Keep an authentic, exemplary device competence – don’t loose TOH. It differentiates strongly and offers the end-user the opportunity to refresh / expand / adapt or at least peace at mind of not owning a static, enboring piece of device.
“Mummy / Daddy, why don’t you get a jolla phone ? It attaches to the LEGO-OH controller and it looks so cool on you ! … or “if you want me to practice some knowledge or skills, it also attaches to an [ age-specific ] OLPC-OH :)) !”
[ see also : https://together.jolla.com/question/116259/savetheotherhalf-toh-development-deserves-a-quantum-leap ]
After all that you’re may be too young to diversify already by now into different fields – except you intend to ( silently ) give up on phones / SFOS “Jolla adventures” by perception is equivalent to “Saarnio adventures” to me – but has nothing to do with a focused device / OS maker.
You should concentrate on incarnating & pipelining SFOS & driven devices, developing cooperations for this but not offering horizontally distributed services. You’re too small for that.
# Make it pro
(Re-)gain a professional reputation of what you’re launching is working in decisive details. Especially concerning ports: If one selects Fairphone HW a.o. for it’s dual SIM capability it should work on SFOS right from the beginning. One will not have to pray to you and wait another year to get that dual SIM support. The same goes for Nexus or Xperia HW – maybe choosen for superior camera / display quality : crucial elements have to be supported right from the beginning ( excepting beta-releases ). If Fairphone / Puzzlephone will update their HW modules you should be involved right from kickoff to be right there on the landing ( to convince by professionalism ).
Make it as a main goal to introduce your products as a reliable & distinctive(!) alternatives for professional applications. It could turn out very profitable.
Always keep a competitive pace – maybe at cost of funct. features / “extra chic” but never at the cost of your core ( convincing ) values i.e. best-in class UI, responsiveness, efficiency & reliability.
Also make it a habit to keep your competitively set timelines.
# Feature & get known beyond a nerd community
Strategically seek distributive partnerships with established & recognized networks & customer bases sensitive to Scandinavian / intelligent / techno-affine Lifestyle & design: not too eco / not too over-commercialized ( where your popularity in sales would rank around #10148) or too old fashioned ( gold-plated TOHs for Harrods-clientele 😉 ? ) … Seek networks such as those of marimekko, BO concept ( smart home TOH? ), Muji, Magazin, B&O ( special editions ? ), fnac, hoepli, design & fashion-label editions ( e.g. Alessi, Diesel, Falconeri, … ) … your marketing division will find out myriads more options for sure …
Maybe virialize by modern art museum shops as well by iconic designs / OH functionality ? Maybe 3-5 little test boutiques in hip, buzzy global-minded locations ? Tokyo, SFO, Florence, Dubai, Capetown, HongKong, Dehli, Rio de Janeiro, Berlin, Moscow, London, … ?
Show that you are there for support. Devices & Android support must work out of the box. The hosting distributor mustn’t be clueless, but convinced to transmit a picture of jolla’s agility & competence !
Feature exemplary success stories & community members with their arguments & point of views. Make jolla hip & desirable beyond a nerd community ( even though remaining nerd at heart !! 😉 ) The marketing department should not be attached too nerdy, not too “promised-landed” BIRCS but also globally connected to an “unlike” way-of-thinking pulse while remaining tech-affine differently.
# Keep & built your community.
Treat your community with deserving respect – never presumptuous or as a clueless bunch of kids.
Feature / feedback them something to think / challenge / tell about regularly.
Jolla is now running on tehe Turingphone
http://www.turingphone.com/
Congratulations. Are we financing that with our tablet?
^^ thanks for the info ! Glad to see some movement concerning SFOS-licensing & supporting devices 🙂
( Tablet – still – is another thing to be satisfied )
actual link :
http://us11.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1d34480bd339567cb5c193ac8&id=c77735a18a&e=324fb6b2da
Why didn’t I know about this device?
Thanks for posting it
http://us11.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1d34480bd339567cb5c193ac8&id=c77735a18a&e=eaab3519d3
Based on this article, it seems like Jolla and Turing were meant to be together –
http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/2/10899178/turing-phone-delayed-ditches-android
…. iff anything will ship at all. When you’re starting up you’ll have to promise and deliver one thing after another … as simple as that.
MWC’16 will enlighten us about real facts & chances for jolla and the proliferation of SFOS. The media will be hopefully prepared to ask further, deeper digging questions – if you can’t make it there personally.
Hopefully the “post-Dillon” jolla GOT IT that they’ll be approaching a real crossroads regarding their future at stake.
Slush’15 had been an awkward situation in many directions. I wouldn’t wanna remember that one too long :/ ….
I really wish them the very best.
well bummer… I was somewhere around 2500 according to that clever document I first saw what seems like forever ago. I think a bunch of “first hour” people would have to request refunds for me to have any shot. Oh well…
So, this post was made over a week ago, but the most recent communication I have from Jolla in my inbox is from October 9, 2015 – I wonder when the “further instructions” will arrive?
A: The approx 500 devices we aim to ship to IGG backers are from the same batch as these devices.
Well if that’s true all the 64GB backers won’t get a tablet as all the devices on taobao seem to be 32GB – why did I opt for the upgrade 🙁
Ah, I guess I didn’t have to worry about that after all, I was a 64gig too… probably I don’t count either.
OK I’m totally lost. From what I read here I thought it’s the other way around, the 64G tablets are done and 32G tablets are not. Maybe there were two manufactured batches – 32G and 64G, and Jolla bought (some of the?) 64G and could not buy 32G, that’s why Jolla was shipping only 64G and the Chinese are now selling 32G?.. (Just speculating)
Someone reported on jolla.fr that he ordered a tablet from Tabao. At the time of ordering, he could choose to have it delivered with SailfishOS installed for an extra $32. He chose that option, the tablet arrived with SFOS 1.0.8 installed, and he updated it without problems. His only complaint was that the Android support was in English rather than French.
Link to thread (in French): http://jollafr.org/jolla-livrera-quelques-jolla-tablet-et-remboursera-les-autres-contributeurs/#comment-202129
Originally reported by Jordi on TMO: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1497727&postcount=4507
Does anyone has any news from Jolla ? Or we have to wait another 6 months?
Simple we all know that Jolla HQ uses a different dictionary than the rest of the English speaking / writing world.
So “soon” in Jolla English means maybe now .. maybe next week, maybe next year .. even maybe never.
So until we have some IGG backers confirming to receive their refunds I would not get my hope up high.
Jolla has been full of sh*t and still is until proven differently.
Some nice words in a blog which came 8 month too late does not change a thing.
Jolla PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS !
Someone reported on jolla.fr that he ordered a tablet from Tabao. At the time of ordering, he could choose to have it delivered with SailfishOS installed for an extra $32. He chose that option, the tablet arrived with SFOS 1.0.8 installed, and he updated it without problems. His only complaint was that the Android support was in English rather than French.
I posted this already with links, but that one is waiting for moderation. It will show up here eventually: if you are impatient, go to TMO and look for a post by Jordi on the “The Future of Jolla’s Tablet” thread.
https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/609383890956910592
Uhm, don’t tell me you’re only becoming active, when you don’t have to leave the building ….
… now 8 auctions online :
https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/?answer=125926#post-id-125926
Wow, they have sold -610 tablets in one month.
“Après que tu es commandé, il te demande si tu veux Sailfish OS pour 32$ supplémentaire.
En tout, ça m’a coûté un peu moins de 275€ (tablette 168$, SOS 32$, intermédiaire 10$, assurance 7$, transporteur 30$ et taxe 53€). Livré en moins d’une semaine.”
Source :
http://jollafr.org/jolla-livrera-quelques-jolla-tablet-et-remboursera-les-autres-contributeurs/
“… en moins d’une semaine” = in less than a week
“…. les mises à jours s’installent comme sur le téléphone.” = updates install as on the phone.
“…. il te demande si tu veux Sailfish OS pour 32$ supplémentaire.” = you are being asked if you’d like a SFOS for USD 32 in addition.
f°°k, could someone please tell me where to click on taobao to buy that tablet? i don’t speak chinese…
thx
or could jolla perhabs just buy that for me? wasn’t my fault, that my already paid tablet ended at taobao.. 🙁
Google taobao agent. Make sure to choose one that is willing to ship stuff with battery inside (most of them mainly ship clothes).
BTW don’t forget to vote this :
https://together.jolla.com/question/128326/community-port-requests-2016/
…. those guys are willing to port SFOS to the device(s) of our choice ! 🙂
The clearer the results of the poll, the better for their focus. 😉
@Juhanilassila: is there a Reason, that Jolla HQ is silent about Turing Phone switching from Android to Sailfish? Even on Twitter! Normaly you guys are so proud of such things… was this information released by Turing too early? was it suposed to be released at MWC 2016?
Those who still want Linux on a tablet might be interest in the Ubuntu touch tablet which is supposed to be released in 2Q 2016, according to this: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/02/04/canonical-reinvents-the-personal-mobile-computing-experience/
More info: https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Ubuntu_Touch
Sorry, if that comes across as advertisment, I am not related to Ubuntu in any way.
“1. Ship remaining Tablets to Indiegogo backers: we will ship 540 units as soon as we can starting from February.”
I’m on of those about 70 people who already paid tax+shipping in mid-October.
First week of February is over and I got nothing. No news, no tablet. Three weeks left.
I will post this every week of February until I got my tablet or at least a mail about it.
“I will post this every week of February until I got my tablet or at least a mail about it.”
One day, your children will be so proud of you.
@ossi1967
“One day, your children will be so proud of you”
and your kids will proud of your qualified post too ;).
wtf? if you are treated that way u have every right to be pissed off. whats your problem? what is the intention of your post? please clearify!
In mid-October, I payed them for tax and shipping. They claimed to ship the tablet within 10 days. I still don’t have my tablet.
I never got one single mail from them ever since!
You’d think when they make you pay tax and promise shipping within 10 days, they’d send you a notice if they can’t make it. But they don’t! They never directly contacted me.
Do you think that’s OK? I mean, when they wanted my money, they were able to send me a mail, but for some reason they couldn’t even drop me a line about the fact that they aren’t going to ship my tablet at all.
And now, they claim again that they will ship my tablet. I’m waiting. I got no power here. If they want to, they can shit all over my head, never send me a tablet, never send me a refund and never even send me some kind of information about that.
The only thing I can do is let them know I’m waiting. Let them know I haven’t forgotten they took my money.
I am a person who spend almost 300€ on a product I never received. And when I dare to ask when I may get it, you dare to make fun of me?
All they have to do to get rid of me is send my tablet or give me money back. The only way for them to get out of their responsibility to the backers is by going bankrupt. You can’t just keep on keeping on after you took 2.5 millions from people without delivering.
And please don’t act like Jolla is so important. You can buy an Ubuntu phone right now, which is on the same level in terms of privacy and compared to Jolla even is real Open Source OS, instead of a proprietary UI.
And how about you try to net get personal? Involve peoples kids? Who the hell do you think you are? What gives you the right to judge me, insult me and even insult my kids?
+1
+1
+1
+1
Once again, your patience is amazing.
@Turbinenreiter Oh come on. Don’t act as if you had kids. Based on how you write (and what), you’re too young and immature to keep a family. That’s why I wrote “One day…”
You spent some money on a risky project and cannot cope with the fact that the risk has actually materialized. You’re taking that on a personal level (didn’t you realize? Why accuse me for following you to this level?), you lie and curse and swear and threat and whine… You’re making a fool of yourself. Hint: If you ever have kids, don’t act this way. They will want to be proud of their parents.
I still don’t understand why you keep trying to explain your situation to me. My situation is in no way different than yours. Only difference is that I seem to know what happens because I read and understand Jolla’s communication. Plus, I understand that such investments may be lost and there is no obligation for Jolla whatsoever to return the money. (Quite on the contrary, there might be legal obligations at the moment that force them not to start a refund process just yet.)
As for Ubuntu: I have bought an Ubuntu phone because I’m an addict and cannot keep my hands off anything that claims to be a GNU/Linux based mobile {put your favorite gadget here}. (I also will buy the announced Ubuntu tablet.) The problem is: It doesn’t work as a main phone. Everything the Jolla phone is bad at, the Ubuntu phone cannot do at all. It doesn’t even come with a mail client. Sailfish isn’t as far ahead as it used to be because Jolla wasted all their development resources on the tablet for 1 year now, while Ubuntu did make same progress. Still: It’ll take some more time until Ubuntu is a viable alternative.
Don’t be so sensitive once someone holds a mirror up to you. You’re one aggressive, rude person and shouldn’t be surprised when people start talking to you in the same way.
@ossi1967 might your elderly wisdom perhabs be so kind to tell me where exactly jolla communicated in a professional matter? risky? you mean 600 out of 12000 risky? 5% risky? after winning even awards for the device that is now not delivered? what about the community? the programmers who put there work in that project in writing apps fort the tablet etc? how the hell should jolla be taken serious ever again after funding 2.5 mio and just let the manufacture of the device sell it on taobao? if you do the maths you would know that buying all tablets on taobao it would cost even less than refunding and if properly communicated it could win back some of the totally lost trust.
please be so kind and enlighten us with all of your wisdom..
thanks
“You’re one aggressive, rude person and shouldn’t be surprised when people start talking to you in the same way.”
Where have I been aggressive or rude?
You are the one who started personal attacks. You are the one who thinks you are a better person than me because you are older.
“you lie and curse and swear and threat and whine”
Where have I lied? Where have I cursed? Where have I whined?
All I do is, over and over again, state some simple facts.
“You’re making a fool of yourself. Hint: If you ever have kids, don’t act this way. They will want to be proud of their parents.”
Again, the fact that you don’t even seem to understand how vile these type of comments are makes me sick. If you are talking about mirrors, try getting in front of one and think about why it’s so important to you to ridicule me for trying to be heard and trying to put some pressure on Jolla to actually go through with their claims.
“You spent some money on a risky project and cannot cope with the fact that the risk has actually materialized.”
That is not true. I backed plenty of Kickstarter projects. Some of them went south. But all of those tried to make things right. All of those kept me informed and respected me. I have 800€ of backer money in a project right now that was time critical to me. It’s about 3 months late now which is a big problem for me, as I have to delay shipment of testkits myself, but I never once complained about that. Because they are working with me to resolve the issue, and not keep me in the dark and make false promises. And those 800€ are about 3 times of what I spent on the Jolla tablet.
There is another project, where I’m just in with about 50€. They had faulty components that forced them to completely redo the whole product. New components, new PCBs. Almost a year late. But they are still fighting, they communicated clearly and their backers are willing to help. Their backers helped out with more money and with technical expertise. Those guys will ship or die trying.
And there is something else you don’t realize: if you do a crowdfunding campaign, your companies very existence is tied to delivering. You can’t just take the money and then say ‘whoops, sorry!’. The only way to get out of your responsibility is to go bankrupt. There is not a single company out there that still operates after failing to deliver. Fulfilling their promises has to be priority one. You keep saying that they have no obligation to return that money, but you are wrong. As long as they exist, they are obliged to fulfill their promises.
“Only difference is that I seem to know what happens because I read and understand Jolla’s communication.”
You read blog posts, that come months late. Because there is nothing else.
Again, I got an email from Jolla in mid-October, claiming that my tablet will be shipped in 10 days. It didn’t and there was no communication until their November 24th blog post.
I never got a mail informing me that the 10 days window would be missed. In fact, I have to come here to find information. In fact, if they’d send me mails, I _never_ would have come here and I’d _never_ posted.
Why don’t they send that out per mail to all their backers?
Why don’t they send me a mail, like the one asking me for the tax money, to tell me that the tablet wouldn’t be shipped within 10 days as claimed?
But go on, call me immature again. Make fun of me and my future kids. Show everybody how mature and smart you are, and how stupid everybody else is for asking to get what they payed for.
Alternatively, you could stop for a second and think about my questions. Think about why Jolla wasn’t able to communicate to me directly when they missed their shipping window.
I know in your head Jolla is some kind of white knight fighting against the evil of the world. But they aren’t. They are a business. One that failed to deliver on a promise. One that wasn’t able to treat their backers in a way that would have made them allies in their fight for survival.
+1
+1
@Turbinenreiter: There’s so much wrong with your post, it’s hard to even start shaking my head because I know I could never stop.
Maybe the one sentence that your whole strange view evolved around is the following:
“If you do a crowdfunding campaign, your companies very existence is tied to delivering. […] Fulfilling their promises has to be priority one.”
Of course, this is utter nonsense. Priority number one is developing Sailfish OS. That’s what the company is about, that’s what it was founded for in early 2011. The same priority (because you cannot have the one without the other) is to keep the company alive, despite all the financial troubles. Anything that would jeopardise the survival of Jolla as a company has to be stopped.
The tablet is one project among many. If you follow Jolla’s press releases, interviews and such, there were a dozen or so promising projects of theirs that failed miserably. The tablet isn’t all that bad in comparison: At least part of the project was successfully delivered. They managed to make the OS hardware independent and ship at least a few units. Only part of it failed this time.
If you expect their communication to be as frequent as your whining here, then we can only thank God it isn’t. You have made your point months ago (feels like decades), and you keep repeating it mindlessly ever since. Is this what you expect? Should they publish the same text over and over again, several times a day?
No offense, but the penultimate chapter was funny 淘寶 🙂
@ossi1967: jolla has lost its integrity to me. i was not whining nothing, i trusted them and waited whitout any nagging for 14 months.
but when i realised, that what i had financed is finally sold on taobao and they even didn’t try to solve that issue nor communicate it directly to me as a backer of the project i was pissed. i never received on single email from jolla, not for my problems with my “the first one” jolla phone and its technical problems nor for the delay and bullshit with the tablet. thats how you lose your fellow followers. if people powerd means that the community itself has to find the backed product on taobao by themselves i’m out.
and btw the hardware is not worth 250 euros. so i paid not only for the tablet i paid also for the siftware and i also would have been ready to pay more just to see my tablet at my hands. but this kind of behavior prooves to me, that jolla seems not to be really interessted in their customers anymore. they hope for big license deals, not for a vivid community. if not, why should they tell me bullshit for months when they allready knew that i won’t get my tablet and probably have to wait another year to get my refund… after collecting 2.5 mio and distributing more then 12000 devices…
could you enlight me with your wisdom again?
thank you in the kindest way..
@tobasmogaster In short: You’re making things up out of thin air (“distributing more than 12000 devices”, “when they allready knew that i won’t get my tablet”) and then criticise them for the things you just made up – plus, you criticise them for not communicating those things before you made them up.
You know, if Sailfish OS is truly hardware independent, why couldn’t Jolla create another tablet and install Sailfish OS on that instead and delivered it to all the backers? This is actually a rather simple question since hardware is _so_ easy according to Jolla.
When I think about it, hardware independent is only a goal for Jolla and it should not have been required for the tablet.
and just to be clear: i’m following jolla since the beginning, i made it known in my friendscircle and i believed in it. bought all products and wanted it to be successfull. but i don’t understand why toh is almost abonded and i seriously can’t understand how they think anybody could back for example another crowdfunding campaign after this desaster. dude! they won the price for the best tablet and now it is not only abondend, but also the backers are left alone. this is the best way to screw any investor. if its a igg backer or some big fish. btw: any idea why the big investor left the ship? perhabs cause he was able to witness what actually was happening?
@Turbinenreiter
@tobasmogaster
You are feeding the most disgusting, detestable troll in this forum. Don’t you see that he is laughing at you? The best you can do is ignore him and hope that he will eventually shut his fetid sewer.
valid point. sorry
Thanks for the amazing comment.
https://mybalancetoday.com
+11ty billion
You’re crossing a line @ossi1967. Leave people free and let them be open without involving anyone’s children into your comments. Be free and stay open in your own opinions too, but stay in the subject. We’re all people, hopefully ones with feelings.
Ubuntu Tablet BQ Aquaris M10 tulee myyntiin Q2 2016.
ubuntun sivu /tablet
…. thanks indeed for that ! I really appreciate the fact it is intended to integrate decent – if not awesome – office and graphical productivity tools such as LibreOffice or the gimp !
Too bad jolla decided not to really deliver tablet HW at all : https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/?answer=124904#post-id-124904
IMHO jolla should’ve still tried to deliver & distribute as much as possible – even if it meant to repurchase those “lost” devices from diverse Chinese dealers. Juhani’s FAQ reply above – sorry to say that – basically is an unmotivated, resigning response to me. Jolla operates a Chinese, HK-based office and by now 3 Taobao offers explicitly welcome distributors for deals and share along contact details to get in touch …. a piece of cake & a matter of showing commitment to reflash them with SFOS if necessary.
Facing the truth is, that the Jolla is sinking to the ground of the seas. There is no tablet, nor a privacy aware people powred OS. There is just an Linux based OS which you are free to license and bunch of hardware which is not supported by it’s manufacturer anymore and that. The captains and machinists left the ship, but only a few passengers are left in their cabins….
Off-topic but anyway, Marc Dillon interview:
http://areena.yle.fi/1-3297279
I completely agree on everything.
“Det välkomnande Finland har förändrats”? Is he talking about immigration there? (I don’t use Flash and I’m not sure if I care enough to install it just for that one interview.)
Immigration among other things. How Finland has changed and such.
@jollakooth thx for this link. Some of what he said almost made me cry because it’s so right and so human and should be made available to a much larger audience. I had no idea Mark was so vocal in this political discussion.
Thanks! Very interesting thoughts. He seems to have a choice of career as a politician I could vote for… 🙂
He mentions on several occasions the ‘best education system in the world’ but there’s not much evidence of it in terms of communication and business skills in this company!
@giles On the contrary: It’s more likely that they’re used to the higher reading skills people have in their country.
I regret, for the late backers like me, that there is no planned way to actually buy a Sailfish-powered device.
Short of tablets, even a rebate on, say, a Fairphone preloaded with Sailfish would have been both efficient for ‘showing’ Jolla, and cool for me, allowing me to personally get safe from Apple/Google -which was why I support Jolla to begin with…
+1
+1
Hi @Herve5,
I thought so too … but to my surprise only 3 upvotes to that :
https://together.jolla.com/question/124808/poll-deliver-the-tablet-or-loose-a-burden/?answer=124878#post-id-124878
[ but I also wonder if jolla would’ve paid attention for various reasons ]
Hi Launchpad,
I must say I just upvoted over there because this is another forum which I read much less often than here (having no Sailfish device yet 😉
I want to use Sailfish OS on a tablet soon.
Please give us the possibility to use Sailfish OS on a tablet.
And please also make a port of Sailfish OS to Fairphone 2, this would by a great symbiosis!
How about a specific timeline on the e-mail for refund , something . Don’t keep us in the dark for another 3 months , at least show you have learned something from the past .
My theory is that lawyers have told them not to inform customers to avoid unnecessary claims.
I think an unfortunate attitude
Jolla bye bye
PS: The issue is not that the latest announcement is only a week
PS2: Is there anyone in the company who can do Jolla specific planning?
PS3: Not a priority project? Is not an uncomfortable situation?
PS4: Forgive my English
Another report of a successful purchase of a Jolla tablet with SailfishOS from taobao, with a detailed description of how I did it.
N.B. Going this route has its risks: you don’t know about the real security or privacy of such a device, and if anything goes wrong that you are not able to fix yourself you depend on the good nature of other people who have done the same. Personally, I’m not going to try this, but if you are more adventurous than I am you can find the story here (I’m posting without a link, to avoid the moderation delay):
(1) Go to together (dot) jolla (dot) com
(2) Find the thread called “Taobao jolla tablet and os security [answered]”
(3) Look for an answer by a user called “RussH”
I’ll post a link as a reply to to this post, but it may not show up for a while.
And here is a direct link to RussH’s answer:
https://together.jolla.com/question/128547/taobao-jolla-tablet-and-os-security/?answer=128851#post-id-128851
@Antti So what is the situation? Jolla sold material and license to this companies? Or Jolla just accepts that they are selling non licensed products?
This is the question, how this game can go on.
I would be really interested in any official statement here.
On the other hand that can easily be the case it is how business goes in China – especially if relationship goes bad to one reason or an other…
“detailed description of how I did it”
Aaaargh, what a typo! 🙂 Correction:
“detailed description of how _he_ did it”
So far we have 2 sellers that are proven to ship tablets with real Sailfish OS (another was mentioned by the French guy here: http://jollafr.org/jolla-livrera-quelques-jolla-tablet-et-remboursera-les-autres-contributeurs/).
Any information about the other sellers?
Be aware that the seller mentioned in RussH’s post had 44 tablets with “original Jolla OS” two weeks ago. The day the faq was updated in the blog post we are currently viewing, the number dropped to 2. A couple of days later it showed those were sold out. Now a while ago the number went back to 20. In the same time 0 tablets with Android were sold. This makes me speculate that either:
1. There was an error in the website
2. Someone ordered 20 tablets but cancelled them
3. The seller got more tablets (from where?)
If option 3 is correct it means that we can’t be sure whether tablets ordered now will be from the same batch as RussH’s.
So bad !!
No news about the real deal from Jolla invite this week?
You know, Jolla wouldn’t be the first company to use the age-old “this year February has 29 days, lol” trick…
So I might be getting a tablet! Yay for me!
This update is long overdue, but the delay understandable to a degree. I feel sorry for the peeps who won’t be getting their tablet.
Have to say: The bark squad who keep flooding all the blog updates with flame should take a chill pill. I get it you’re pissed, you now got an option to get your money back. Get on with your life, I am going to even if I won’t get the tablet. There is much more to life than hurting your butt in internet. 200-300 $ isn’t really that much money to invest all your free time for 6 months to crying in here. Even if refund wouldn’t have been an option you could’ve taken action instead of bantering and achieving nothing but general annoyment and less if any comments from the devs and staff. Haven’t seen any of those in a while.
Thanks Jolla for the update, this is the way to relay information. Sailfish is the OS for me, stop screwing around with bad news and lay them out. Be the company to look up to.
Somebody sent a link to an extracted list of backers a while ago. I think I have been anonymous at that time of extraction. Can that operation be repeated and a new list generated? Or is there another list showing also dates of contribution?
If you see the language and the tense on the Indiegogo website, it leads the reader to believe that SailfishOS’ work is done, and that only the hardware work is remaining. There are quotes that lead us to believe that Wired magazine has reviewed this SailfishOS 2.0, etc. The gist of all future blogposts, too, were very hardware focused.
Now, we get to read that Antti is surprised that people expected a tablet running SailfishOS, and further surprise that people should know that without the OS, the tablet is just hardware.
There is a disconnect between what was advertized in the campaign, and what was communicated later via blog posts.
Lesson for Jolla: Please be very careful on what you are committing to. Your Indiegogo campaign advertized a tablet (with the OS being read and reviewed). Right now, you come across as liars.
So, it looks like hardware may not be Jolla’s niche at the moment. Many others are able to get hardware manufactured just fine in China.
Lesson for Jolla: Perhaps Jolla should seek better/multiple partners?
Many people are still defending Jolla in this and in other blog posts, and are continuing to wish them well.
I myself am disappointed by the mis-leading communications in the campaign. However, I’m contemplating continuing as an investor, and may even back future campaigns. I really believe in the vision with which Jolla was founded, and I hope this vision becomes a reality.
Lesson for Jolla:
a. Get Antti some independent advisors on ethics and on integrity.
b. Remember the reason why you quit Nokia and founded Jolla, and further remember that you continue to have supporters around the world.
“Q: Why didn’t you communicate more frequently during the campaign?
A: We realize now that in the Spring/Summer 2015 we were not that proactive in our communication. We were anticipating the project to proceed with speed, and aimed at communicating about that next. This was clearly a mistake, we did not communicate proactively enough.”
Almost two weeks later and all we’ve heard since this announcement is crickets, great job guys!!
“Many people are still defending Jolla in this and in other blog posts, and are continuing to wish them well.”
Barcelona ( Hall 2 Stand 2EMR.K6 ) will tell if it all has been giving pearls to cats ….
If by then no real future materializes, I’ll be getting worried about the establishment of SFOS as a sustainable mobile OS alternative. For that I’m keeping my fingers crossed and I can accept the silence of communications just right now.
I’m hoping even one or two interesting community SFOS-ports will make it to presentation on their booth to underline the vitality of their very supportive community.
More on this :
https://together.jolla.com/question/128326/community-port-requests-2016/
^^
BTW: EXPERT SCORE APPRECIATED to score list of nominated target devices …. Thanks !
Indiegogo Jolla tablet page now says: InDemand.
This is all new to me but this apparently means as they say: “InDemand lets anyone back you after your crowdfunding campaign is over – you can keep raising money as you choose.”
After all, it may have been there for a long time…
Well, now it became “closed” anyway.
@AnttiSaarnio, @JuhaniLassila, @jolla ( in case you are following blog comments ) :
… why not dropping by Hall 5 Stand 5B81 at MWC 2016 and figure out about device strategies & competence @Gigaset ?
A quite experienced European, Munich-based device maker – IMHO really worth a second glance ….
Their very first smartphone device family is just about launching today – and it looks great considering the quality of make !
Their so-called #GTag’s could be made working under SFOS as well – a nice goodie to App developers ! 😉
More infos : https://twitter.com/Gigaset
( Update: both Düsseldorf & Munich based )
…. Gigaset Elements is their business for smart home / home automation. Maybe also interesting to become natively supported on SFOS ?
http://www.gigaset-elements.com
Their docking station is awesome as well :
http://www.gigaset.com/de_en/gigaset-mobiledock-lm550.html
Maybe even an opportunity to co-develop a “Sailfish pro” version …
#info Refund program for Jolla tablet is not a trivial task as there is no ready solution available. Jolla has been working super hard on it with good progress, and is starting to send instructions etc. to contributors.
#info All the perks (64GB upgrades, delivery fee etc.) will be included in the refund program
#info There are both 64GB and 32GB tablets in the batch of 540, but no exact figures of each.
#info It should not take long for the shipping of remaining 540 tablets, although no exact date yet. Please also refer to FAQ in latest blog post for other questions.
JuhaniLassila: “Selling unofficial devices on Taobao with SFOS on them is not OK for us. We have raised this topic with our partner.”
————-
#info Intex phone will be available in India only
#info Turing CEO announced their intentions last week, and Jolla can confirm the partnership
More: http://merproject.org/logs/%23mer-meeting/%23mer-meeting.2016-02-11.log.html
Thanks a bunch for some fresh info man
Many thanks for passing this update along.
OK, so according to this information backers should receive an e-mail or other kind of message really soon. I’m really hoping it will be a matter of a few days and not weeks..
Instead of IRC, I think Jolla should hold their meetings in Person even if it costs a little more money.
In fact if they would hold them in the US, I’m sure we could arrange free board and room for all staffers, paid for by the US Marshall’s Service.
I wonder how many countries would arrest these people on first sight.
+1
It is a bummer that we will not get a tablet. Is there a way we could get a Jolla phone 2.0? I live in the U.S and the current phone does not work here.
I am truly sorry the tablet campaign failed. Much of the failure was out of your control. That is what happens when a small boat dares to sail against the wind alongside two massive ships steaming in the opposite direction.
May only calm seas be ahead.
I know it is all history now and I don’t want to reopen all the arguments, but I would like to make one obvious point.
Jolla should by now be communicating directly to its backers by email. There must be many who still have not read all these rumours on so many different websites.
It is only common courtesy to send a message direct – it was easy enough for them to do it when they were encouraging us to pay for more features.
@mariner further more intersting question: did anyone ever get an answer on any mail regarding the indiegogo campaign… just wondering…
Yes:
Jolla (Jolla Service and Support)
Hello,
the list of recipients for the 540 Tablets is still under review, because of changes to the list. This is for reasons of e.g. people having moved to unsupported countries or being unable to confirm new email addresses in place of ones that we know have expired. Please note however that in the first hours of the campaign we had thousands of people contribute to the campaign.
Please stay tuned to your email for instructions that will tell you which group you belong to (refunds or recipients).
Thank you for your patience!
Sincerely,
Jolla Customer Care
@elastic
lucky you. i never got an answer from the igg cmpaign. and the customer care for the phone also didn’t answer for like 6 month…
Jolla. Is OK to buy stuff from you and pay you in a few years or never? That is what you are doing to your customers right now.
Dave999, you can always do what I did and get your money back…
I could. But I don’t need the money. I just think its up to jolla pay back their supporters if the want future support.
If you want to run a serious business and grow you have to act serious and support you customers because thats the fastest way to new customers.
Even intex phone will suffer if no refund will be done.
I think we all passed that period. They did fool us several times regarding delivery, and finally they stated that they are unable to deliver what they’ve promised. They also implied how we should not ask for tablet, but software that is more important to them (at least what you could read from their official statements, even though IGG terms of use says different). They did mentioned about refund which is ridiculous, I will give you half of your money somewhere in Q1, and second half in (well when we feel to be ready). This is not legit, and they knew it… Again, I have been more than understandable and patient till September last year. I waited till December for positive feedback, but as we all know, it is February and still this charade continues. I don’t have anything to do with Jolla anymore, (as I said: When I get my money back, I am out of here…) Cheers and good luck to you all
Yes, Jolla wasn’t true to customers and the campaign and business partners. The campaign should have been named: Contribute to jolla sailfish OS.
The customers will judge them and I will let every customer do that their own way.
Personally. I will not put any money into their or others businesses using their OS as long as jolla not fully refund all the supports.
I think that is fair.
Could you tell how you got your money back?
Does anyone has any news ? A tablet ? A refund ? Or are we still in the dark ?
Jolla said they will ship approx 600 tablets rest they will refund. Half the amount soon and the feast maybe later.
But Jolla has said things like this many time and then nothing so until you got …consider yourself in the dark 😀
“1. Ship remaining Tablets to Indiegogo backers: we will ship 540 units as soon as we can starting from February.”
Second week of February is over and I got nothing. No news, no tablet. Two weeks left.
I will post this every week of February until I got my tablet or at least a mail about it.
Sailfish/Jolla..powered by people..hopefully the saga continues..I do like the Idea, but i do not understand how the businessmodel could work/ be profitable or even break even…the cashflow into Jolla must be a steady flow, not just phones and IGG campaign, hope you find a way out of this mess..
I would love to just have a refund at this point. Whatever interest I had in this product has long ago disappeared.
@Mamo63
Me too I just want at least some of my money back….
“Q: Why didn’t you communicate more frequently during the campaign?
A: We realize now that in the Spring/Summer 2015 we were not that proactive in our communication. We were anticipating the project to proceed with speed, and aimed at communicating about that next. This was clearly a mistake, we did not communicate proactively enough.”
Nearly 3 weeks since this statement was posted an no updates, Oh Jolla you never cease to amaze.
Jolla can be in hiding for months just to wake up and announce a delay. I doubt 560 tablet or refund will start but rather another delay.
+1
That’s exactly what I was thinking as I typed in the blog’s url, hoping that my mis-trust would be disproven by a new blog post. Not a chance.
This kind of reminds me of when they promised – both on Twitter and on the app store – that they would start reading and replying to store comments. They did it once and then forgot about it. Maybe that’s why I feel I have a déjà vu…
Hallo.
How do I get paid for the contribution, if my credit card is no longer valid?
It’s middle of February and still no invitation. So, ok, will wait some time, but looking at another tablets and platforms.
Hey!
Thanks a lot for our work anyway. And I hope you did not stop because of this temporary troubles.
Wish you a good luck and tailwind for your boat.
Yep still nothing .. but I guess @ossi1967 can say something obscene to cheer us up ?
Come on ossi1967 ! We are waiting for your remarkable comments to make this Jolla BS all better again ..
Yeah come on ossi1967…
Give us all something (or someone) to laugh at!!
Put a smile on our faces.
I sort of feel bad about that comment. But then I remember back to him trying to b!tch slap me.
He has finally shut up, and now you are asking for more? Are you guys masochists or something?
@Maikel I’m sorry I missed your comment – all this bullshit being posted here makes it tedious to even quickly scan the new messages. – OTOH, I don’t think I understand what I could do to help you. What exactly is “this Jolla BS” you are referring to? It’s a post that most people thought was very helpful and informative. Still didn’t get it?
I opened a dispute on PayPal on January 27 and got my Pre-Order money (306 €) back the very next day. That was quick. 😀
Because I bought already an expensive LastuCase and don’t want to use an Apple or Android device, I ordered a Jolla Tablet via Taobao.. my Taobao agent purchased it today for me, so it should be in Germany until next week.
Thanks for the info, what exactly did you write to PayPal to get the refund? I think I’ll be doing the same, my patience with Jolla has come to an end..
+1
Here is my exact text I used at PayPal:
“You delayed the delivery of my pre-ordered and already paid Jolla Tablet for a multitude of times and were unable to deliver the Tablet for already 5 months now. You broke your own set deadlines repeatedly and are unwilling to fulfill your duties as a merchant. That’s why I demand a refund of my paid 306,13 € until the next 12 days.”
You can open an PayPal dispute just for 180 days (at least here in Germany), so that could be a problem.
I am a Pre-order customer, not a crowdfounder.. I dont know what will happen if you use the same method to get the Indiegogo money back, but maybe you should give it a try. 😀
Many thanks for the reply, I’ll have a look into it.
Thank you for the info, but i think you didn’t ordered during the crowdfounding period?
If so what did you write to PayPal?
Could you please post the link to Taobao online shop.
I would like to buy also one.
Regards
Manfred
I use the same merchant as “Hanteville” described on this French Jolla page:
http://jollafr.org/jolla-livrera-quelques-jolla-tablet-et-remboursera-les-autres-contributeurs/#comment-202129
http://world.taobao.com/item/525246736574.htm
I use “Basetao” as my buy agent, who orders and ships the device for me. The communication with them is very smooth and easy (they had to instruct the merchant to deliver the tablet with Sailfish OS instead of Android (!) and English as set language, and to put the real price + shipping fees on the custom declaration, so there wont be trouble with the German Custom (19 % import tax on tablets)). Seems to be an serious Taobao agent, although they demand payment in advance, but I almost lost the 300 € already one time, so what . 😀
I will post when the device is in my hands.
The process to get a refund and the terms used in that process may vary depending your local laws and language. In the US, you “report a problem” and “initiate a dispute” in the “Resolution Center”.
Depending on your local laws and PayPal policy, there may be a time limit on how long after the transaction you may initiate a dispute.
@ tipo158 Have you filed a claim with Paypal US?
Yes. I pre-ordered at the beginning of Sept. and started the dispute at the end of Nov. My money was refunded at the beginning of Dec.
@4mbit http://goo.gl/s9m9KZ
@federico1828 thank you, but i must learn Chinese language now
@ 4mbit Use chrome and will translate for you. Im about to order on as well.
This Blog should have eben titled
Jolla Tablet: aiming to miss our deadline again.
where’s the refund, you sad f…rauds?!
Don’t tell me you have another lame ads apology up your sleeves?! Can’t wait to hear what it is this time. Anal probing aliens? That might actually explain alot.
Go to hell, all of you.
Leave the aliens out of here. Thus is between jolla and us.
But yeah. Jolla is stalling. There is simply no way jolla can ship tablet or refund supporters in February.
Expect another stalling blog post.
I went to Finland to got phone, and after all that, think i will go to get MY tablet. I’m tired of shit.
When you go to Jolla office, could you please attach a Gopro to your chest/shoulder or something? Because I wanna see this
@DimaAsket go to #MWC2016, Jolla will be there.
@DimaAsket https://www.mobileworldcongress.com/exhibitor/jolla-ltd/
tbh, though I am sick and tired of “the waiting game”, I didn’t expect to hear anything from Jolla soon since MWC2016 is around the corner and they might have to deal with that at the moment. Not that I don’t think they would be obliged to talk to us, but seeing how all this went down I’m sure they can only deal with one thing at a time. At best 😉 I was enthused, then I was enraged, now I simply don’t care anymore. Gimme my money and I abandon the ship, waving farewell, looking for greener pastures.
+1 : That pretty much sums up my feelings..
It’s quite sad how they’ve managed to loose so much good will that they had built up.
To be fair to them they said refunds will start in Q1 – more like end of, so 6 weeks to go!
They said delivery: may, june, august, decemeber. They promised delivery at an event…so does it matter what they say?
Don’t you think it was about time to remove the tablet from your products instead of still advertising it as if nothing were?
According to the site I could still buy one… 🙁
… it’s more like a slap in the face of those who contributed to the tablet especially as the first menu item on the very top of the tablet page says “Meet your Jolla tablet”.
Antii, you are a captain of a submarine that dives each time you have to take responsibilities.
And, please do NOT call me your captain.
3 weeks later .. still no e mail regarding the refund ..
Come On how difficult can it be ?
This is a serious company, http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/18/nextbit-robin-review-an-aesthetic-escape/
Not like Jolla, learn Juhani Lassila & the other responsible for this fiasco.
… well, alea iacta est !
It seems, some of you will finally get happy :
“Jolla Tablet Pre-order: Your refund is being processed”
received from: campaigns@jolla.com
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 12:39:16 +0000
…. as for me it has been last option I wanted jolla to realize. Right now I really don’t know if this will mark a creeping end or a healthy coup for jolla / SFOS. Hopefully it is not jolla’s or their investor’s dream to end up as the “Tizen” of Intex.
More than 10.000 (!) formerly convinced contributors & supporters have just been flushed without any appreciation. Jolla is operating on half the staff since December 2015. Milestones are lacking. Apple seems to withstand FBiOS these days, ubuntu is surrecting, jolla is silently giving up on own HW/TOH concepts ( Puzzlephone taking over ) and selling points of jolla are eroding like snow under the April sun.
Who / what will cure this disappointment ? Who is left to become convinced ?
Last trump pending : MWC 2016 …. feel free to speculate ! ;<
^^ “Puzzlephone taking over” :
I should’ve better said “MS is taking over” :
https://together.jolla.com/question/116259/savetheotherhalf-toh-development-deserves-a-quantum-leap/?answer=128206#post-id-128206
“Your refund is being processed” – FYI:
http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=9fa131561747fd5ea8037f0c2&id=6559a7a677
Is this official? There’s some spelling errors in the message.
…. nothing left than to lean back and wait :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOKHtVLY-FI
“1. Ship remaining Tablets to Indiegogo backers: we will ship 540 units as soon as we can starting from February.”
Third week of February is over and I got nothing. No news, no tablet. One week left.
I will post this every week of February until I got my tablet or at least a mail about it.
Are you sure jolla meant February this year?
@Dave999 Jolla is busy @MWC2016 all financed by our IGG contributions.
Please provide some information on what people can expect if they want a SailfishOS-based tablet. It’s far from optimal for anyone that hardcore Jolla fans have no other options than
betraying the company they adore and buy an unofficial tablet from China w/o warranty.
yes, yes, yessssss! 🙂
The Chinese merchants are including 12 months warranty. 😉
Something like that.. where’s my tablet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uTMTyqQxl4
I know where my tablet is.. just arrived at the warehouse of my Taobao agent, it comes with Sailfish 2.0 and looks very good to me. 😀
I would like to link some pictures, but then my post would probably would stay “under moderation” like my post from 3 days ago, where I posted the link to the Taobao shop. 😀
On behalf of “betrayal of Jolla”:
I gave you a interest-free loan of 306,13 € for about half a year when you were near bankcrupcty. So stop whining about the fact that the Chinese are flashing Sailfish onto the “unofficial” Jolla Tablets, Antti, you should be happy that there are lunatics like me who enhance the userbase against all odds. 😉
@MeegoUser it would be nice to take the tablet to #MWC2016 and show it there personally. Jolla is having a stand at #MWC2016.
I won’t be there, Barcelona is too far away from southern Germany. 😉
Jolla is probably renting a meeting room in hall 2. I don’t think they have a typical stand there. The Intex phone will be in hall 7…
…. yes, back from scratch. But back is good.
Hall 2 Stand 2EMR.K6
https://shows.showplans.com/mwc-barcelona/technical-showplan [ lower left, magenta colored area ]
@ caprico Im sure, We also paid for that stand as well.
These are some pictures my Taobao agent sent me moments ago:
http://goo.gl/zGcC7S
http://goo.gl/iuX6nu
http://goo.gl/rgj2Qd
Can’t wait to put it in my LastuCase. 😀
@ MeegoUser Good for you, looks great.
I want a full refund. I do not wish to participate in the indiegogo donation program.
FYI: Refunds to web-order customers have commenced meanwhile …
https://together.jolla.com/question/129864/fyi-jolla-tablet-refund-procedure/?answer=129969#post-id-129969
Thanks for sharing this Launchpad, I still can’t believe we (the community) have to find out about this stuff through unofficial channels. I’m really getting tired of Jolla’s mouth writing checks its ass can’t cash.
@4mbit, my post from February 17 is unlocked since today, you can read now how I purchased my tablet from China. 😀
@MeegoUser thank you i will try to get one.
Until now i can’t create a account at this online shop ;-(.
Did you already received the tablet in Germany?
Bist du aus München?
A friend of mine visit the MWC2016 in barcelona and i pleased him to visit Jolla asking for my tablet.
He told me that jolla has a little conference room at a dead end of the fair and as he asked them about my tablet, they told him that all tablets are already shipped to the IGG customers and the rest will get the first half of the refund in a few weeks and maybe the other half in year if the investors agree. His opinion is that very thing looks very sad, maybe they are still searching for investors.
So i think we must be happy to receive the half of our money.
I hope jolla isn’t sinking.
Look below, today I posted a picture of my tablet in the LastuCase. 😀
You cant create an account at Basetao?
I am from Constance. 😉
@MeegoUser
Thank you now i understood,i have to create an account at Basetao.
I failed to create an account Tabobao
Let me know if you need help while ordering. 😉
A month later and still no comment via email, no tablet, no refund. Have I been lost from the list. You managed to take my money?? What the!!! Only found out about this following a twitter link about something else entirely. TALK TO ME!!
“Our #MWC2016 show is on with #Intex!” ….
Being honest this is good – but was expected …
It could be that I may not be the only person, if I expected a least three more SFOS showcases such as the
Turingphone in reality, the Puzzlephone concept and the Fairphone story. Maybe showcasing some “crazy” community ports on different devices as well, such as Intel-based tablets ….
IMHO a dedicated SFOS promotion booth would’ve been the right choice keeping SFOS alive within the real world : experiencable, assessable & interviewable. To spread a message, that SFOS has not died and is evolving & versatile ( not only in India ).
Oh boys, don’t come home without any promising new reputable licensors / cooperation agreements from the venue !!
I already mentioned, Gigaset at booth 5B81 could be worth a talk ….
Maybe get inspired by this ongoing, highly frequented poll as well : https://together.jolla.com/question/128326/community-port-requests-2016/
I want you to see securing SFOS proliferation by all means ! d (o_o) b
Hello,
As a indiegogo contributor for “jolla Tablet – world’s first crowd-sourced tablet”,
I hereby would like to apply for a full refund including shipping and customs cost.
This decision is primarily motivated by Jolla’s failure to deliver the “perk” while 479% of the needed funds to ensure delivery where met.
Also the fact that the tablet is on the Chinese market proves that producers completed the product, and meeting your obligations towards the backers is only some clicks on a keyboard away.
I understand this is due to a mis-allocation of funds, But I see a shift from, I set a deadline, and I make the deadline, To, I mis a deadline and I set a new one to end up at, hopefully within a year start counting from an uncertain point in the future, permitting funds… This is not something I can rely upon.
sincerely,
V. Wim
Are they still aiming? No wonder they never hit anything if it takes them so long to just aim at stuff. Just get it done Jolla!
They have been doing something. New Intex Aqua Fish has Sailfish 2.0.2.390 Aurajoki:
http://www.jollaes.com/content/uploads/2016/02/IMG_0044.jpg
Might have sailfish, but is otherwise a phone with extremely crappy specs for 2016.
What’s with the delay again?
I was one of the first Indiegogo supporters (November 2014) and I still have not received any e-mail with directions how to get a refund for the jolla tablet. It passed almost 4 weeks from this blog post…
Tick, tock!
Nearly a month since Jolla acknowledged they have not communicated enough and not a peep more out of them. Please get us our full refunds ASAP.
At least a few weeks to go before anything will happen:
“Regarding refunding IGG backers, that work has progressed and we are close to finalizing a front-end solution that will be used to collect data from backers and that will be used to verify backers’ contributions, respectively. We are still at least a week or two from making the solution available to backers.”
Collect data?
What else do they need besides bank account numbers or addresses? Data Jolla already should have.
———————————————————-
FYI “TABLET REFUND” :
together.jolla.com/question/129864/?answer=129868#post-id-129868
———————————————————-
https://together.jolla.com/question/129864/?answer=129868#post-id-129868
Thanks 🙂
Want SFOS on Fairphone ? Consider to leave a vote there :
https://t.co/pWKWFRcPCU
Come on folks, I don’t need the refund. I would like to have a next generation Jolla phone. And I again wohl be an early baker for that.
Simply can’t imagine any Android f… carrying around with me anymore. So take the money and make me happy later.
Hell, keep on dudes!
I have just received my Jolla Tablet, an oddysey of 6 months comes to an end. 😀
At the moment I am updating it to the latest Sailfish version, I will upload a picture of it in my LastuCase soon. 😀
When and where did you order ? What was your number in the queue ? I am ~460th backer on IGG and no news at all…
I am probably Nr. 21800 in the line, I am a pre-order customer and got already my money back. 😀 And with that money I ordered a tablet from Taobao.
+1 🙂
congratulations! the official one or from a china-shop?
@ MeegoUser congrats! please upload some pictures!
@AnttiSaarnio, @JuhaniLassila, @jolla
Sure I will not get the tablet. I was too late to pay. But seems the refund will not be possible also. My credit card which I used to pay the perks expire 04.2016. So new card will have another number and I afraid the refund is not possible. Is there anyone with the same problem?
Hi @omax,
I just re-asked your question to @larstiq here :
https://together.jolla.com/question/129864/?answer=129868#post-id-129868
Open all comments to check it. Hope it helps.
… so there you go 🙂
“[…] those are the kinds of issues we’ve been thinking about. The instructions for what to do will be in the blog post next week.”
“A new blog post will go up next week, if not earlier (MWC etc). We’re working on a survey for IGG backers. I believe we’ll have that out in a matter of weeks but I’m loathe to commit to a number, unforeseen issues/interrupts keep popping up. I’m doing my best to have you see material progress in March.” – larstiq
February gone, nothing happened. No money, no tablets, no information. And they don’t even believe themselves that they can make it in March.
I don’t get it.
Especially the shipping of the 500 tablets. They told me it was already produced in October. Why can’t they just ship it?
Honestly, I don’t believe a word they say anymore.
Apparently my tablet is lying around in some warehouse but nobody seems to be able to put it in a box and send it to me.
@Turbinenreiter, I suspect they have serious issues with hardware or integrating the software into the planned hardware!
Otherwise, to produce the hardware and ship it would be only option, not refund.
The batch of maybe 4 or 5 thousand tablets with 32 GB was indeed produced in October 2015, it is printed onto the box.
My tablet from Taobao came with version 1.1.9.28, which was released already in September 2015.
If Jolla had not breached their contract (no pay for the contractor), then probably everything would have went out fine.. whoever worked as CFO for Jolla at that time and did the calculations should be tied up and thrown into the Baltic Sea.
..aaand still no Refund.
has anyone got an email, should I be checking my spam folder?
I take everything back.
My tablet was shipped yesterday.
They just failed to inform me.
http://track.aftership.com/dhl/9983842363
For everyone waiting for the tablet and the refund:
This is great news! Things are going forward. They are making good on their promises now.
It took a while, but for everybody waiting this means that trust is being reestablished.
It has been a mess, but Jolla is finally coming trough. Good job. I wish you all the best for your future.
If anyone want’s my tablet – contact me. I’ll sell it for the same price I payed and send it to you unopened as soon as I get it.
Just sent you a email 😉
Hi,
how long did it take since the Tablet was “In Picking” until it got sent? My order status changed from “On Hold” to “In Picking” one week ago so….I am still optimistic 🙂
My tablet arrived today.
It was in picking since October … .
I bet you will get yours in the next days, too.
I wrote customer service last week, asking why I still don’t have my tablet, and they responded with the tracking link. I have no idea why they don’t send the tracking link to people on their own, but hey, that’s Jolla for you.
I think all the 500 tablets will arrive in the next few days. I already got mine, so I think people can start to trust Jolla again.
That will happen only after everyone else get their money back.
What are the 3 last digits of your order number? 🙂 is your order still “in picking” in the jolla shop? i haven’t got mine jet. it’s in picking since october…
“Q: Why didn’t you communicate more frequently during the campaign?
A: We realize now that in the Spring/Summer 2015 we were not that proactive in our communication. We were anticipating the project to proceed with speed, and aimed at communicating about that next. This was clearly a mistake, we did not communicate proactively enough.”
One month later, and here we are again learning everything we (The community) need to know from 3rd parties, keep up the embarrassing work ethic Jolla!
Here a picture of my Jolla Tablet in the LastuCase:
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/big/lw7g-1-ee8a.jpg
It is from the Taobao-Shop called “925shops” and cost 1280 Yuan. Like you see, it was able to update to the latest Sailfish version, everything works fine, otherwise Jolla seems to scare people away from the “unofficial” devices. 😀
@Jolla. For the love of god, please do not screw this up. You have created greatness right there, please do not leave me hanging like with my Nokia N9. 😀
Same pepole were involved in N9 product, than they balme Nokia for failure. Next they openeded their company and it seems that it will fail again. So maybe not the Nokia was maun cause of failure? Same pople having same problem in different environment. Hmm, coincidence?
Main failure at Nokia was Jorma Ollila’s horrible role as Chairman of Board of Nokia. He hired Stephen Elop, who butchered MeeGo in favor of Windows Phone (and thus butchered the whole Nokia device department).
The way I see Jolla, technological Sailfish OS is superb, but they seem to have huge problems with translating that into revenue and to create a sustainable business model(and keep the investors happy). Why the hell do they have not included a payment system for their app store? If it is so hard to implement such thing, why they do not license that from Nokia (the payment system on my N9 worked really fine)?
We will see how well the current licensing plan (like with Intex now) works out, who knows how much the hardware producers are willing to pay for Sailfish.. hopefully enough to keep Jolla alive.
Very much the “Party Line”.
Simple truth: NOKIA’s culture was inward-looking & arrogant. They lost the plot, and Elop saved NOKIA’s bacon by offloading the ‘phones to MS, otherwise the whole thing would have crashed & burned.
Fast-forward and we see that Jolla too is inward-looking (never communicates) and arrogant (everything is always wonderful).
They over-promised and haven’t delivered.
What I find particularly strange is that they took Meego – partly an INTEL project, ported it to ARM, then appear to have failed to make it work on INTEL hardware.
How so?
Not important, the Tablet is dead, and most likely Jolla will be soon too.
Your remarks about the corporate cultures at Nokia and Jolla may be correct, but this is historical revisionism:
“Elop saved NOKIA’s bacon by offloading the phones to MS”
The only thing Elop saved was his 25 Million Dollar bonus when the sale took place. The sale was lead by Risto Siilasmaa, Elop was at that time already removed as head of Nokia. 😉
Jorma Ollila originally wanted to place Anssi Vanjoki (head of the MeeGo team) as CEO, but Meryll Lynch and Morgan Stanley as US investors wanted to see an outside solution (and Ollila hadn’t enough backbone to refuse that bullshit).
Seems like Apple’s and Microsoft’s marketing departments were very succesful at spreading their PR bias into smartphone consumer brains. 😀
My experience working at Nokia was that they weren’t inward-looking or arrogant. They were quite the opposite. They just misidentified where the threat was.
Symbian was a hastily thrown together attempt to prevent Microsoft from overrunning the mobile market, back when Win CE seemed a credible future threat.
Symbian’s technical shortcomings soon became clear. Nokia already had promising Linux devices in prototype. But there was a group of rising young management types who decided to build their careers on being the Symbian experts, and they were able to prevent Linux phones from being produced with the argument that it would cannibalise the Symbian phone market.
I think you are probably also wrong about Jolla being inward-looking and arrogant. The Finns have a famously unique communication culture. The don’t talk bullshit, they don’t make promises casually, and they are very comfortable not speaking much at all. If you say something rude or stupid to a Finn in public they may not be able to reply at all because it’s distasteful for them to make another person lose face.
I reckon these guys are working flat out in very difficult circumstances and aren’t saying much because there is very little that they can promise with certainty.
I wish them luck. It’s not an easy thing that they’re trying to do.
@ MeegoUser Glad for you! Taobao is more reliable than Jolla.
Actually I should be happy that all the mess occured, as Pre-Orderer Nr. 200 or so I would have never gotten an tablet from Jolla (as overall Nr. 21800 in line) and had to rely on the crowdfunders to sell me theirs. 😀 Everything has its pros and cons.
If someone else wants to sell forward a Jolla Tablet (from IGG) please contact me here: palomakijussi@gmail.com. I know someone who really wants one but doesn’t want it from Taobao…
I’m also interested for IGG or in pre-ordered Jolla tablet … thus NOT Taobao.
I’ll pay 32 GB version 240€ and 64 GB 260€.
Unopened, of course.
Payment … PayPal only … safety for both participiens.
For contact zoranselinsek@hotmail.com
Thanks
AWESOME RESULT !! https://t.co/pWKWFRcPCU
I appreciate you guys *still* supporting and voting for Sailfish after all ! 🙂
Almost 1 month after the statement.
I just want to know when will the refund for IGG backer start?
I’m pretty sure people would appreciate a blog post today… 🙂
Me too! 🙂
…and then once a week for the life or promised projects that involve the community.
They’ve actually gotten worse at communicating since acknowledging that they’ve done a terrible job at communicating. Blog updates use to come every 2-3 weeks, now we’ve been waiting a whole month for a new update.
Hmm, my Google Now just showed me announcement about a new post in this blog.
“Protected: Jolla Tablet: project update, how do we move from here”. But link is broken, what’s that? Have anyone also seen it?
It seems they’ve published a blog post for a short time and brought it down immediately. Because, I got notification about a new blog, but when I clicked the URL there’s a “Page not found error”. Find below the URL.
https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-project-update-how-do-we-move-from-here/
It seems they’ve published a blog post for a short time and brought it down immediately. Because, I got notification about a new blog, but when I clicked the URL there’s a “Page not found error”.
*Original comment with blog link awaits moderation
I just came home and was very surprised to find a yellow DHL shipping bag from China on my doorstep. My Jolla Tablet just arrived! 😀
As for “communication”:
My order in the shop still is “In Picking” (since october) and also I neither got any shipping notification nor tracking link.
Still, I’m very happy right now!
too bad that the tablet probably essentially won’t be, looked really extraordinarily beautiful in all images I have seen… 🙁
I still want a tablet!
If you want to resell a tablet with sailfish contact me at voggy(at)gmx.at
Thank you that you refund the money of our contribution, but in my opinion you stop a real good project to early. I would have prefered an other solution: Ask all the crowdfunders for new money or create a shareholding-company and make the crowdfunders to shareholders. From my side, I would be willing to wait 1 or 2 years more and give you again money, because I belive in crowdfunding and I belive in Jolla. You havn’t asked your crodwfunders, If the are willing to go a longer and maybe “painfull” way.
Hi Elmar. Thanks for your great idea and suggestion. As you may have read from our previous blog posts this project got into trouble especially because of the financial challenges we faced at the end of last year. Through hard work, we got to a solution which made the continuation of the company and Sailfish OS possible. However, as we all now know, the end result was unfortunately not favorable to the Jolla Tablet project, and we had to take the refunding route. This was obviously not something that we planned or hoped for, and we are also sad that it had to end this way. But business is business, and sometimes you need to make decisions that hurt to continue the game.
Well… we’re at the end of april right now and I personally have had no news about the refund what so ever. I have submitted my details hoping I would be refunded. But I haven’t heard from Yolla since.
I would really like an update as to the status of refunding the backers.
Looking forward to your reply!
Hi. We have made good progress with refunds, and part of them will be completed this week, the rest in May, as we’ve communicated earlier. You will get a confirmation through Paypal when it is done for you. Thanks again for your patience.
still waiting
So. Over one year has once again passed. How about refunding the rest as promised in 2016?
This was truly uplifting news. Much thanks to you. Clear answers and even a guarantee to discount the IGG cash (which I considered danger cash in the first place) pretty much reestablished my confidence in your judgment. Redmi Note 9