Today we are happy to announce the availability of Sailfish X for Sony Xperia 10. We also introduce a campaign giving all existing Sailfish customers a nice offer on the Sailfish X licence for Xperia 10, and for other devices.
As the latest additions to the Sailfish X product family, the Xperia 10 and Xperia 10 Plus have been reviewed as good value-for-money devices with eye-catching 6 and 6.5-inch 21:9 displays, and premium build quality. The devices are also the first Sailfish devices to come with user data encryption enabled by default. We think they’re great devices and we think you’ll love them too.
The Xperia 10 and Xperia 10 Plus can fully utilie all the latest features and updates in the recently announced Sailfish OS 3.2.0 Torronsuo release, including the latest hardware adaptation support updates, the enhanced security features, the latest Android App Support and more.
*Sailfish X offer for all Sailfish users
To celebrate the release of Sailfish X for the Sony Xperia 10 and Xperia 10 Plus, we have a special offer for all current Sailfish customers: you can now purchase a new Sailfish X licence for any supported Sailfish device for just 29.90€ for a limited time (normal price 49.90€). No matter which Sailfish based device you’ve been using, as long as you have purchased a licence or a Sailfish OS device, and activated your Jolla account, this is for you!
To be clear, this can be any Jolla branded phone / tablet, Intex Aquafish, Sony Xperia, Gemini PDA etc. The offer is valid only for a limited time period until December 31, 2019, so if you want to get a new Sailfish device, now is a good time for it!
To utilise the offer, just go to the Jolla Shop and log in with your Jolla account.
Sailfish X survey gave us valuable feedback
In order to better understand the wishes for the Sailfish X program, we conducted a survey during the summer of 2019. The response was phenomenal and many Sailfish X users gave us valuable feedback on satisfaction levels, availability, pricing, and other topics.
One of the questions was about wishes and willingness to switch to newer Sailfish X devices. Over 63% of respondents answered that they are interested in moving to a newer device with Sailfish X. This is one of the reasons why we’ve focused our efforts on introducing new devices and also why we are today announcing this special offer for current Sailfish customers.
We’ve also been exploring the possibility of switching to a subscription-based model for the Sailfish X program. From the survey we found out that the majority of respondents clearly do not support this idea, and hence we’ve decided not to continue on this path for now. Sailfish X is a community program at the end of the day, and we value the feedback a lot. Thanks to all survey participants!
About Android app support for Sony Xperia X
The Sony Xperia X device has been the pilot and the flagship for the Sailfish X program. It has now been two years since the first release of Sailfish X for Sony Xperia X and we’ve released many software updates supporting it up until now, and with more to come in the future.
Support for new device options is a constant request from Sailfish X program users. Adding new devices to the Sailfish X portfolio comes with a cumulative maintenance cost. This has resulted in a decision that we won’t be upgrading the Android app support to Android 8.1 on the Xperia X, or other older generation devices like the Jolla C.
The problem is that porting Android app support 8.1 to Xperia X would mean that we update the baseport to Android 8 on that device. We can’t do this over the air, which means that we would have to create and maturize new HW adaptation for Xperia X and either stop supporting old adaptation or to support two adaptations for Xperia X. Supporting two different adaptions for same device would obviously be more work than just having one. If we’d only support new adaptation with SW updates would mean that old users would need to reflash their devices or they would stop getting updates.
We simply don’t have the necessary resources to do it justice given the older hardware and several additional HW adaptation versions needed to support them now and in future.
This isn’t a decision we’ve taken lightly. We are rightly well-known in the industry for the exceptional long-term support we provide for all of our devices and we will naturally be providing all the regular Sailfish OS software updates for the Xperia X, including Android 4.4 support, just as we do for many other older devices. The recent release of Sailfish OS 3.2.0 Torronsuo underlines our commitment to this.
We hope you’ll enjoy Sailfish X on the new Xperia 10 and Xperia 10 Plus as much as we do and will take up our offer!
Keep on sailing,
Martin
Thank you for this clear words! While it is a bit disappointing to see that the Xperia X will not receive Android ( support, I can understand the decision.
And I really appreciate the clear announcement.
In addition I have to say that Sailfish for the XA2 is really usable now so the XA2 became my daily driver. It feels more mature now that the Xperia X.
I keep the fingers crossed for Jolla and the community that you sailors stay on course!
Thank you
I think Jolla is doing fine. Unfortunatly, it doesn’t suite my needs too well. I spent money on one JP1, 2 Xperia X, one XA2, and corresponding licenses. Wouldn’t mind to spend more money on licenses, but that was already too much for hardware. You say, you support Xperia X. Well, kind of. One of your points to not upgrade Android support was that users would have to flash their devices (in one scenario). On the other hand, one of your suggestions to handle the “SIM removed” issue is to reflash the device. This is more “abandoned” than “supported”. I don’t need Android support, but my wife, kind of, needs. In first place because the native mail app is unsusable for for her, she can’t track on her desktop mails forwarded on the app. So she uses K9, which might stay fine with 4.4 for longer. Second, but not used now, apps from flight companies and alike. So, no more money for hardware… YMMV…
Well, that is quite a disappointment. I would have no problems with reflashing my Xperia X if that means Android 8 support and I would think this would be the same for most of the target audience of Sailfish X, since they tend to be technically inclined. And I’m not really willing to upgrade to a newer phone either, since mine is just 2 years old and still works perfectly. I’d rather pay again for Android 8 support, than to pay for a newer phone. On top of that, I dislike the size and aspect ratio of the display of the Xperia 10. 5 inch is already quite a huge phone for me and 6 inch is not going to be any better.
On the other side, if the browser is going to be more up to date with recent Firefox releases (or I’d even take Chromium at this point) and WhatsApp would allow 3rd party clients, makes an official Sailfish Application or isn’t used by 95% of the population anymore, my need for Android Application support would be gone.
This is exactly my point of view (apart from WhatsApp, which I don’t use). I don’t want to buy another phone at this point, and by all accounts the 10 is not as good a phone as the X (I’m sure that SFOS runs fine on it, but there are question marks over Android app performance, and the point of me switching to the 10 would be for Android app support). I’d be quite happy to reflash. Oh well….
I agree.
Indeed, it’s a bit strange that Xperia 10 is really not a significant upgrade if one at all compared to Xperia X. Can be seen even as a downgrade in some aspects, such as the strange screen aspect ratio.
I guess things would be a bit different if also a more high end Xperias very officially supported, which would mean another baseport to support though.
I totally agree
I second your statement totally.
Just agree, no problem for reflashing
Same opinion here:
– Sony Xperia X already needed flashing to get Sailfish X to begin with.
– Some problems (like cell modem related) require reflashing anyway.
In this context, requiring yet another flash isn’t unreasonable if it brings newer kernel and newer android app layer.
Indeed, I’d reflash my X in a heartbeat to get Android 8 (or 9) for the handfull of apps that won’t ever find their way to SFOS.
I line the Kiwi browser on my X in Android mode. For now it works pretty good on my X
Hello Martin Schüle! Please tell me when will the port (Sailfish X) for Sony Xperia 1, Sony Xperia 5? I am ready to purchase even for $ 50. I need a smartphone with a top processor and camera. No need to advertise SailfishOS, I know that it is unique! So tell me when will the port (Sailfish X) for Sony Xperia 1, Sony Xperia 5? In a year, 2, 3?
+1 for that. I also want a faster phone with better Camera…
I think if a more high end Xperias were supported, people would actually have a reason to upgrade their hardware, unlike with Xperia 10 which even as a brand new device is just comparable if not worse to a years old Xperia X.
But I guess there could be a couple issues other than another baseport to support, namely some of the additional features of the high end phones, that Sailfish OS currently has no support for.
Does the Sailfish X offer include the Jala Accione?
Jala Accione running Sailfish OS are sold with pre-installed system and don’t need a paid licence as far as I remember.
Bought my Accione at the La Paz experience center in december last year and have tried to get it flashed with Sailfish OS since then without success. The contact at Jala told me that isn’t possible to get Sailfish OS installed on the Accione. That is why I’m asking about Sailfish X for the device. The phone was not purchased to run AOSP…
Will there be Sailfish X for the PINE64 PinePhone?
Or a official support for the Volla Phone (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/volla/volla-phone-freedom-through-simplicity-and-security)?
+1 for PinePhone. Would prefer a smaller phone, but it’s hard to say no to PINE64’s philosophy.
Or an official support with Android compatibility layer for the Fxtec Pro1 ?
https://www.fxtec.com/pro1/
https://together.jolla.com/question/208399/official-fxtec-pro1-sailfish-support/
There is already a community port on the way:
https://community.fxtec.com/topic/2467-community-build-sailfish-os-32-for-fxtec-pro1/
Actually, some developers from Aurora (the variant of Sailfish OS used in Russia) seem to be helping with Sailfish OS/Aurora port for PinePhone. See the slides attached to this talk – slide 32:
https://linuxpiter.com/en/materials/2664
The GitHub repo they link to:
https://github.com/sailfish-on-dontbeevil
(“Don’t Be Evil” is the name of the Pine Phone development board.)
@Cryx Volla Phone doesn’t exist yet and isn’t even funded. That’s no basis for a cooperation.
That’s right. But an official supported Sailfish version of this phone could lead this project to better Crowdfunding results…
Why not coöperating with a hardware maker like this? Volla promises an encrypted phone. I hope that Jolla will give encryption for the X and the XA2 (plus) too and not only for the 10.
The idea for a standard phone (Volla) is not so bad! We can’t go on buying phones every year.
I guess Jolla as a company might have been burned by their experience with Turing phone (if they actaually ever worked with them).
On the other hand, seems to have been fine with Gemini PDA & looking forward what happens with Pine Phone and F(x)tec Pro1.
Thank you for your message. One thing I don’t understand: is data encryption only available at Sony 10 devices? My XA2 plus is not yet one year old and I am really satisfied with it.Probably the last straight Sony design.This model is now sold out, so it is understandable that Jolla has to join newer models.Yet we should not be forced to buy a new phone each year.A subscription model for Sailfish updates would suit us better. Someone should be paid to maintain the appstore for example.
Good question!
If I would flash the XA2 anew (e.g. with new license), would then data encryption also be available for the XA2?
Data encryption needs repartitioning. So you need to reflash.
You can however encrypt your sd card already with existing installations.
My question is whether a repartitioning that is needed for data encryption will also occurr with a XA2 if I flash the XA2 from the scratch (i.e. a new XA2 with a newly downloaded image – would I then have data encyption on the XA2?).
Or is it, that only the Xperia 10 image provides for such repartioning
I think newer XA2 Images will include that aswell.
Xperia 10 is the first device that comes with the Home encryption enabled by default with the latest SW release 3.2.0 Torronsuo. We are planning to gradually roll out the functionality also for other devices in upcoming releases. However, it is not feasible for oldest devices, such as original Jolla 1, due to hardware limitations. Meanwhile, all the needed enablers are available for the community in public repositories and thus you may enable it for yourself e.g. for Xperia XA2. Please note that turning on SW encryption for a device erases all your user data.
Could you be so kind to explain the enablement of the user data encryption for the XA2 device (i do not mind if reflashing is needed).. thx!
Thanks for the post.
Are there any strong chances that in the following 9 months, Jolla provides SailfishOS + Android Support OR the ability to run PWA to other phones than Sony’s? I have nothing against Sony hardware, but I’d rather try more exotic stuff like Fairphone 3.
We are open for new cooperations with other companies, and see great potential in spreading Sailfish OS to other devices. However, at this moment we cannot commit to a timeline.
It’s good Jolla plans to support newer hardware, but major disappointment in regard decision to no upgrade baseport for Xperia X.
IMHO it’s wrong on at least two levels, one being users trust. It’s clear message that make a port in finished state (ie all major features being implemented) is not a priority. That’s for me enough to loose interest in future purchases in Jolla shop.
Second is technical one, in short term it might bring some some saving but in the long run it’s gonna hurt.
As it is said in blogpos above Jolla cannot afford bloatin amount of baseports to support. And that’s what exactly this decision does.
Right now they got
– JP1
– AquaFish/Jolla C
– Sailfish X (Xperia X baseport 6)
– Sailfish X (Xperia XA2 baseport 8)
– Sailfish X (Xperia 10 baseport 9?)
– other devices being somwhere in between JP1 and Xperia X
New ports for Xperias X and XA2 would mean more effort in short term as it has to be made and for moment there would be two baseports supported per device. But this would allow to phase out old ports and move all Sailfish X ports to common base.
Yep, I know ports are per device, but common base means common featureset and no, or at least less worries about making Sailfish X work on different baseports (6,8, 9/10).
Unless Jolla plan to just drop older ports and just focus on new one. With new Sailfish releases working on older devices by accident. Which makes it all go to the point #1, being loosing user trust.
ATM I’m sorry to say this, but if there was any good alternative to Sailfish I’d do the shift without hesitation.
yes, I totally agree
Well, I see it as follows: Jolla promised support for certain models, not certain baseports. Telling customers using Xperia X devices (For over 1.5 years I might add) that they need to reflash to get future updates and upgraded Android support does not seem unreasonable at all. If the customer doesn’t want to reflash, that is their choice, but no more updates.
Despite I’m happy Jolla is brining Sailfish to new Phones I can’t agree with the decision to drop the upgraded AD support for Xperia X models. We all had to flash our phones to get Sailfish working. And now the burden of flashing is used as a reason to skip porting AD 8 to Xperia X phones. That doesn’t make sense to me.
Jolla is supporting and providing Sailfish OS updates for years; e.g. Jolla 1 has been launched almost 6 years ago and still received the very latest Sailfish OS update. We are also committed to provide Sailfish OS updates for Xperia X, as stated in this blog.
You are right that a common base means a common feature set. However we have learned that in practice, due to e.g. differences in the HW components, special and device specific implementations are needed which easily grow, cause bugs and require major resources.
All in all, technically it is possible to upgrade, however we had to make the difficult decision. We simply don’t have the necessary resources for the development and support now and in future in a quality that would do the device justice.
Well, the thing that often gets lost in discussions about upgrading the baseport to get a new Android emulation layer on Xperia X is that a new baseport also fixes many hardware issues due to updated drivers containing various fixes. IIRC on the Xperia X an updated baseport would fix at least the currently useless speakerphone mode/echo cancellation and would likely also significantly improve performance due to proper core scheduling.
So without the possibility of using a newer baseport on an Xperia X (personally I would not mind a reflash & or paying for the upgrade, even including a subscription 🙂 ) you will have latest Sailfish OS, but minus proper hardware support, not only up to date Android emulation support.
I suppose you are talking about existing users.The XA2plus is sold out, probably the XA2 too, so if Jolla will give new users a chance to experience Sailfish, it has to support new Sony devices.If Sony would come with a sustainable device that is available for a longer period…..
good to see new members in the Jolla family – on the.other.hand, these devuces are huge, I mean HUGE!
not considering myself a small guy witg considerably sized palms – and even XA2Plus is BIG…
do you, Jolla, consider including some smaller devices in the pack?
and not with this strange aspect rati…
I agree, somewhere between 4.1″ to 5.1″ is the “sweetspot” in my opinion. (Not everyone wants a HUGE screen phablet, I only want a phone) And device dimensions are even more important. As a man, where/how do you carry such a huge device?
The Xperia XA2 Plus and Xperia XA2 Ultra are in fact big devices. On the other hand, the Xperia 10 and Xperia X are quite close to each other when looking at their dimensions: Xperia X 143 x 69 x 7,9 mm vs. Xperia 10 156 x 68 x 8,4 mm.
Based on my personal experience I percieve the Xperia 10 even smaller in my hands than the Xperia X, propabaly due to its larger screen and being more narrow.
The aspect ration os Xperia 10 is indeed very strange. Hopefully Sony will not risk so much money by introducing a phone that is totally unusable, but still. 🙂
Nice to hear about new devices, now let’s port SFOS on Xperia 1 or 5 and on a small form factor device and polish the OS a little bit more…
Thanks for the good news and work!
Ok, that means I will to give UT a shot, when the Xperia X port is stable.
So, the missing question in the poll was: If you have an Xperia X, what would you prefer?
1) Continue supporting Android 4.4, no reflash needed.
2) Sailfish X will continue to receive updates like normal, but Android 4.4 support will be dropped. No reflash needed. However, you can reflash (and thus wipe) your device again, and get Android 8+.
I assume supporting Sailfish sans Android on an older baseport is easier, and frees up resources.
Currently I’ve an XA2. Of course I’d prefer OTA updates, but I have I have no problems if reflashing is needed in order to use new features in the future. After all, I already flashed once…
Wise decision, keep up the great work! 🙂
This blog post teaches us that if Jolla releases Sailfish X for a certain phone you may get some updates until they switch to the next phone. From that moment you shouldn’t expect any fixes of the existing limitations.
I guess this is even worse with most major brands of Android phones, they have a decent support of their hardware and often provide updates to one or two more recent Android versions.
Personally I wouldn’t mind spending the extra money for an Xperia 10 as it is rather cheap, it’s more that I care for the electronic waste and the resources used to produce a phone, hence I would like to keep a phone as long as possible. Hopefully Android 8.1 will last for a while but I do understand the disappointment of the Xperia X users.
I think that’s part of the issue – but rejecting all the users requests for updated Android support & baseport on the Xperia X Jolla is really sending a bad message to the community, one that can I’m afraid alienate many current members & have people think twice before joining the community.
In my opinion even a halfassed almost self supported updated baseport for the Xperia X would be sending a better message than this.
I agree with you MartinK, we support jolla (i’m supporting it from 2014) But now it’s too much. so i reflash to android or lienageos because i use a lot of android app … reflashing is not a problem we have done it all…Xperia X is a good hardware and in a world where we consume to much, we have to use the hardware longer than 1 year ….And i agree with others that xperia 10 is not a good hardware if you check hardware …sorry to be honest…
I’m a bit disappointed, even if it was expected. The Xperia 10 is more or less an Xperia XA2 in another formfactor (though the Xperia 10 is inferior).
Personally I’d rather reflash my Xperia X and even buy a new license with Android 8 support than buying new hardware.
The Xperia X might be 3 years old by now, but it’s still better than the newer Sailfish X devices.
I might consider a new device if there were something with better hardware supported, like Xperia 1 or 5.
Exactly, Xperia 10 does not really bring anything new. Actually, in roman numerals X == 10, so I guess that’s what to expect. 🙂
On a more serious note, support for better hardware would give people a concrete reason to upgrade. But you would still need a “cheap” hardware line as well, as only supporting high end devices could be a significantly high bar for new starters.
I’d pay 50€ for Android 8 on Xperia X.
IMHO you should discontinue the old adaptation and maintain only the new one for people who buy it.
Users who don’t want to buy the new license will stop getting updates or reflash with the community edition. Remember: we paid for 1 year support and 2 years have passed since then.
Thanks for reminding all of us of Jolla’s commitment to support devices and provide Sailfish OS update for them for years.
Seconded about paying for updated baseport for Xperia X – I’m fully aware that this is not free for Jolla to create and maintain & I’m prepared to help cover the costs.
Don’t get me wrong Jolla, i am a really big fan of your OS and its development and its at least SFOS upgrade policy. But i simply don’t buy your argumentation considering the Android upgrade to Android 8. For sure the goal of most SFOS users is to get rid of Android, but as long as there is such a small app universe, and there are some apps that aren’t updated since years, there is no way for developers to also offer paid apps, SFOS users will need the Android layer, and as more and more developers and apps are dropping their support for Android 4.4, with this move you will loose a lot of userbase. The userbase of Sailfish OS has never been published but communicated by Sami to be in the hundred of thousands of devices. Most of it should be Xperia X users that exept to Jolla 1 users are the most senior SFOS users. According to the discussions in your forums, the number of people asked in your survey should be around thousand. So we have thousand people asked vs. a userbase of hundreds of thousands of users, of course there is the possibility to virtually scale the results of the survey, but this for, the survey should be representative, which would mean the exact mirror of the userbase. Being an early access user i never saw that survey, so what i doubt is the representativity of it, and that it is just used to blend the Xperia X users, as one of your main arguments to use SFOS is its longevity which by above facts is reversed, as you should buy a newer device to use a SFOS version with the latest Android layer. By updating the Linux kernel of Xperia X, you would bring it to same level then other SFOS devices with newer Android version, which would first save you the work of backporting SFOS features to an older kernel and make it really easy to adapt the Android layer of newer devices to it, so it would be a winwin situation for both Xperia X users and Jolla, and as far as i know there is already a proof of concept of that. So please Jolla reconsider your decision regarding the update of the Android layer. Thanks a longtime SFOS user
I second your rationale.
Have tried to buy X for xperia 10 as an existing member but it’s asking me for the full price not the discounted one, any ideas anyone. Also anyone know if it supports the dual sim version of either of the xperia 10’s. Cheers
Both, the Single SIM and Dual SIM version of the Sony Xperia 10 are supported. The exact model numbers you may find from here https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360012176974-Sailfish-X-for-which-device-models-is-it-available-
Any news on the Cosmo Communicator support? With the device finally being in construction and the first batch already shipped to backers (me included), I wonder when we’ll see the first SFOS build for it. The fact that it is mentioned at no point in this post really concerns me.
Does the license offer for existing users apply to the Cosmo as well?
The special offer applies to the supported Xperia devices, as you may see in the table featured in this blog. We cannot speak on behalf of another company, therefore we encourage you to get directly in touch with Planet Computers.
I bought it and I will install it in the evening. It’s nice to see installation is possible with Linux. Thanks for your hard work!
Finally a clear response. As a Sailfish Xperia X family we can can live with it. We enjoy using the native apps. But the frank tone is hopefully a turn of tides. Thank you!!!
So, Jolla. At least you have made a statement at last – thank you for that.
But you are forcing me and even more users to leave with this.
Why should I throw out my Xperia X just because newer version of Android support? there was said something about long-term support, sorry, but this is not long-term support if you want me to buy new phone every 2 years.
There are people who don´t want to tear their pockets with paddle like Xperia 10. Ind if I compare Xperia XA2 vs Xperia X – its not big difference between hardware of those 2 models, so there is no reason to change Xperia X for XA2.
So, even I hate Android with my whole heart, I will propably have to do Bye Bye Jolla and flash CarbonROM. Because even if I try, I cannot be completely without android support, because native apps for SFOS are still missing. If there is enough apps in native format, I´ll be glad to throw-out android support.
I don´t understand what is that BIG problem, if I can run Android 9 on Nexus 4 from 2012 without any problem.
You´re saying that users would have to flash their devices. Almost every user when bought SFOS had to flash his device, so what´s the problem now?
This is Jolla’s second big disappointment now.
First the tablet story where I am still waiting for my money and Jolla is sitting out the matter. That was the first big disappointment and a very big loss of confidence.
But I stayed with Jolla.
But now also still the long-term support with JP1 to quit meets in the middle in the heart. With it the loss of confidence has finally occurred.
What does the end customer want. A smartphone with SFOS and a compatibility with Android. Nothing more.
This whole Jolla concept is a constant back and forth without reliability, farsightedness, transparency, sustainability and absolute hostility to customers.
Everybody is talking about climate crisis and at Jolla I should now buy a new mobile phone every 2 years. That’s not contemporary, climate hostile and stupid.
Too bad. I can’t recommend Jolla any more today.
With Jolla the dollar signs sit deep in their eyes and they no longer see what they once wanted.
They now do their own thing regardless of what the users want.
Driven by the fast pace of life, they run from exhibition fair to exhibition fair always looking for what’s going on, what they can still do, like a couple of school kids who always want the biggest chocolate.
In other words a handful of dynamic young entrepreneurs who want to confirm themselves fast times and besides for it still to be paid would like.
Jolla lacks the overview of the whole.
This is the best way to lose yourself and your customers as well.
Earning money is one thing his customers to keep the other.
Jolla can’t do both very well.
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator
At least three Google trackers on this site, why? Why not using Matomo?
Thanks for suggesting an open source solution. Matomo seems to be called Piwik earlier. We will check and would be happy to take alternative solution into use.
Thanks James. Just want to let you know that I am happy with Sailfish on the XA2 plus.(The X had buttons on the wrong place, resulting in screen pictures all the time). It is my daily driver. Although not perfect, Sailfish has improved a lot.
Almost exactly 6 years after receiving my Jolla 1, after the humiliation of the Tablet debacle, this decision to abandon Xperia X users by refusing to support more up to date android apps is the last straw for me. SFOS is still too much of a niche project for anything other than a handful of developers, whom I thank for their perseverance. With a heavy heart, goodbye, I won’t be back.
I can fully understand how you feel. But were you wanna go to? The next best option beside a hand phone with SFOS is having no phone.
Almost 40% are not interested to switch to a newer device. I’m impressed by this green community!
For new customers, it’s great to have new HW available. As for me, I’m happy to go with the same device for at least 3-4 years given that SW updates keep coming!
Well, it is not just ecology, but the new hardware not really providing much if any improvements while being larger and/or in a weird form factor. 🙂
I do appreciate the clear words. Accepting ones resources are limited and with that focusing on the possible tasks seems to be the correct way to do things. So I can understand Jolla’s decision here and I agree.
To be honest, what I miss most is native apps.
The OS itself is quite fine for me now. It may still have some problems but concerning the os, my Jolla could be my daily driver easily.
Still, it isn’t.
The reason is there are way to few native apps and the ones available often are…. well… let’s say not sufficient.
This applies to most of the store apps and some for the core apps too.
Especially the calendar app is not what it’s supposed to be. Besides synchronisation issues it gives one way to less information without keeping clicking ones fingers to death.
So, dear Jolla, please think about upgrading the Jolla store. Think about opening it for payed apps to maybe attract some more developers (and some for the greater companies maybe?).
And please think about spending some of your resources for making the Jolla core apps not just more usable, but think about making them to top of the state apps.
In the end users do not use the os directly. In the end users use apps.
Why develop native apps for Sailfish Os?
I can give some information from the developer point of view about why we are still lacking many native apps:
– Jolla store sucks: allowed set of APIS is very limited, there is no web version, developers don’t ger any notification about new comments & can only reply via Store client (no wonder why most native apps go via OpenRepos these days)
– many superb native apps rivaling in functionality even Android and desktop apps (such as OSM Scout Server & PureMaps) get low exposure as they are OpenRepos only due to not fitting to Jolla Store limitations
– even if not limited by Jola store, the available libraries are still limited (basically just C++/Python and QtQuick are supported for UI, and even then there are many missing Qt modules, such as QtQuick Controls) and out of date (prehistoric Wayland, GCC still in 4.X series, Qt 5.6 with upgrade being delayed yet again to next year – at least we have relatively cutting edge Python 3.7)
– the outdated libs hold native apps back : updated Qt 5 might make PureMaps finally Jolla Store available, outdated Wayland (and at this point likely also GCC) is preventing people from porting modern Firefox as a native application (there have been attempts)
– no usable up to date web engine: the default browser uses an outdated version of Gecko, which is not usable by other apps anyway, there is an outdated version OS QtWebkit that can be used by other apps, but that’spreatty much it – QtWebkit updated or QtWebEngine has been promised for years and nothing so far, this severely limits alternative browser development and apps that might need an up to date webview
– many services no longer provide public API, so a third party developer can’t really make an app for such a service & the company behind it is unlikely to create a native app for such a minority platform such as Sailfish OS (this is actually the main usecase for the Android emulation layer – communicating with such API less services via their Android apps)
So that’s it – I would say we can be actually happy we still have some native apps in active development given what application developers need to go through. this is really something that needs to improve soon, or else we might loose even more of them.
Hi MartinK,
many thanks for all that information. I knew of some of these points but by far not of all of them.
Seems, Jolla has quite some tasks to do.
@Jolla:
Maybe some Jolla official wants to copy your list of issues and start solving them? ;).
+1
+1
I think you are right about the app store and paid apps. They can be an incentive for creating quality apps.I paid for apps several times (Piepmatz f.e.), but for Jolla it seems complicated setting up a paying system, since Europe doesn’t have a credit card.Perhaps Ideal could do the job?
Would it kill Jolla to make step-by-step videos on flashing Sailfish using Linux, Windows (especially), and Apple?
When does anyone guess Jolla will cease service and updates for XA2? I ask because I am not too chuffed with design of Xperia 10 (the phone is too slender and long insofar as it is a nuisance to hold in one hand and doesn’t fit well in one’s pockets)?
Hi caloma,
I agree with you. The formfactor of the Xperia 10 is failed. I don`t want to carry a cinemaphone in my pocket. It is too long.
I´m satisfied with my XA2. This phone is a little thicker, heavier and got sharp edges but the dimensions and the formfactor is still pocket-size.
Many Thanks to Jolla for your good work. The OS is getting better and better.
I understand your policy and agree with you in relation of the Xperia X and the Android support. Don´t look back in time too far.
It is only sad thing that it is hard to get a new and unused XA2. For people who don´t like the physical dimensions of the Xperia 10 and I can imagine there are many there is no current alternative.
Good question! I even would like to see videos about how to download audio, copy/paste,how to use files, for non tech savvy people.
Can anyone from Jolla provide the update on any chance to re-enter SFOS in India?
Sony has already quite some Asian markets including India, so if any indian user wants to purchase SFOS device then where can he purchase?
Is there any plan for India???
I just recently replaced my N900 from 2009 with Xperia 10 (I had one easily available, otherwise would have gone with XA2).
I have J1 for work, can live with it, but I also would like to see few applications from the Android side as native Sailfish applications. That won’t happen until Sailfish has measurable market penetration.
The Xperia X support is rather hard question and your decision is understandable. On the other hand I think it would have been acceptable to require everyone to re-flash the device and just drop the support quite rapidly from the old HW adaptation. As someone already pointed out, everyone using Sailfish X has already practiced the re-flash process.
I would like to see Sony offering phones with Sailfish out of the box, that would be really nice. But I guess they wait until the “big” applications, whatsup etc. arrive to Sailfish.
In all those comments here one can read the word “android” quite often. So it’s clear that android apps are important for many SFOS users. On at least a XA2 and with SFOS 3.1.0.11 it was easily possible to “map” the android storage to a sd card, which was very helpful when using bigger data amounts. (See part “3 Answers” in https://together.jolla.com/question/203539/guide-externalising-android_storage-and-other-directories-files-to-sd-card/.)
With the new SFOS 3.2.0.12 this is not possible anymore.
I have a hard time to understand why Jolla has not delivered a solution for this problem/bug. I cannot believe that the SFOS developers don’t know how to “repair” this. Otherwise for some users SFOS might get useless. So I’m hoping there will be a solution in short time for this otherwise excellent SFOS.
Many users are geeks.They flash SFOS into their phone could have the ability to upgrade their devices.
Android 4.4 is out of date and many apps’ new version won’t support it.I have to search for older version,that’s unconvenient and unsafe.
Dear Jolla-Team,
thanks for the statement about why you are not updating baseport and Android support for the Xperia X. It is good that you are reacting to comment here, too. I think it is very important keep communicating!
From my perspective you are making a mistake.
It is not mainly about a few thousands of Xperix X users on a device that is getting older. It is about the relationship to opinion leaders and advocates. This most wanted feature for Xperia X users has made a few of those people that I know switch from “Jolla could improve here or there, but I can still recommend it and have hope” to “right now I cannot change, but on next occasion I will”.
The business case for this is huge, because it is the word of these technical folks that will set the initial trust necessary for other customers to get to know Sailfish OS.
If you would reconsider, it would be very cool, but this is unlikely as you’d had to admit that you did not listen well enough. What you could do instead would be one or all off:
* Give a full technical explanation and ability for somebody else to update baseport.
* Explain why flashing would have been necessary in detail, maybe somebody find a solution for this.
* State the funding that doing this baseport and android
port you’d need to be able to do this.
Then people have a better choice and you are keeping your financial risks low.
Best Regards,
Bernhard
> Give a full technical explanation and ability for somebody else to update baseport.
There are already community back-ports of Baseport 8 (or 9 ? I forgot) on the Xperia X.
Now that the community got the final answer from Jolla *MAYBE* we should gravitate together and try to polish the port and get a better community supported Sailfish.
(Just the way Compact X was never officially supported by Jolla, but got some community traction).
@DrYak i am the same opinion then you. Can you please post a site or blog with the porting attemps, i searched for it but just found mentions, but not a concrete project. Probably if more users knew about this projects they would gain more momentum and support. Thanks! 🙂
Giving up on Xperia X’s Android support is a big mistake. Why?
-gives a bad echo in the community which is an important part of the whole thing – or has Jolla gone all corporate/governement now?
-we all have flashed our devices to get onboard with Sailfish so re-flashing is not a viable excuse
-lack of resources is also not a viable excuse as you can ask the users to pay for the continued support which I believe most would be happy to do to not have to buy new hw
or you could reach out to the community for help – we’re in this “Together”, right?
-it makes Sailfish look and feel similar in Android compatibility sense to regular Android devices in that perfectly usable hardware becomes unusable (to some) just for the lack of upgrades
-having same baseport level throughout the X series of devices can save time and effort for future upgrades despite the initial effort
So, please reconsider this and also ask your community for ways to fund/resourse it, thank you.
@fairFish apparently vknecht is working on an unofficial update of the baseport for XperiaX. Lets try to support him the best we can:
“News are :
aosp8 based port is working and on OBS but sub-optimal (eg. battery drain, usb, bt, cam poblems)
aosp9 based port in progress, very fresh and not tested nor on OBS yet
Note this says nothing about Jolla’s willingness to allow using recent AlienDalvik or other proprietary pieces on such a port, even if device is licensed/registered. Gotta bring the subject up in community meeting…
vknecht (21 hours ago)”
https://together.jolla.com/question/217992/community-iniative-to-bring-android-8-to-xperia-x/
Okay, that is very comforting news.
At least we can have some modern Baseport on Xperia X.
Ha!
That just proves my point which was that lack of resources is not an excuse – Jolla should more actively resort to their skilled community, maybe introduce bounties for solving some of the porting and upgrade issues and items.
If the baseport came from the community Jolla should definitely reward that effort by allowing the use of the latest AD on it and pick up and move that baseport to their upstream.
(Just keep in mind that there’s a lot of difference between a working prototype and a commercial product that can be sold. A lot of polishing is needed inbetween. Just look at the current amount a whining going on about “Sailfish X on Xperia ## is a turd !” going on TJC and imagine the level of complaints a even less polished community port is going to see).
But otherwise I agree that a bounty system could help.
Ideally, the pitch-fork crowd could be kept at bay if Jolla clearly states that the current Baseport 6 is the official Sailfish X, and that they are running an experiment in concert with the community devs in parallel.
That would give some slack where Jolla concentrates on only one working current product, and gives time for a community bounty-financed project to mature until the current pain points mentioned by vknecht (broken USB and BT, high battery drain, etc.) are addressed.
I wish my sony xperia X have an android 8.1 virtual machine.
I don’t mind upgrading. I’m ok with paying for another license because I understand there are costs… BUT I’m really frustrated that I’m forced to upgrade to an inferior product like Xperia 10. If we compare with Xperia X, performance is lower. (https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9353&idPhone2=7948).
I don’t like Xperia XA2 either, reason I didn’t upgrade until now; it’s not slim.
I just returned an Xperia 10 plus. You might get use to being big, but the problem is because of its length is not balanced in the palm and is very easy to drop by mistake.
Honestly not even Xperia X is a phone I would have selected if not have been for SFOS. Picture quality is horrible, basically useless, but at least is slim, the camera in inside the body and it has a metal body. The alternatives have poorer design.
Just got new Xperia 10 and new Sailfish X license. My old Xperia X runs android now. This is my final argument. I like Sailfish OS.
Dear Martin, android support is not on my LST at all. If I needed it, I would use android. Ungoogling my life is exactly the reason why I am a SFOS fan from the very beginning. /e/ OS was another option for me to consider.Android- Heaven forbid. Keep using android as an expansion vehicle, similar to how Apple used Intel on the hardware, enabling Windows on Parallel and draining Microsoft customer base in their favour. One day, hopefully, people will wake up to what goolag really is.I use duckduckgo for 4 years,the result= spam is almost gone from my mailbox.
I’m so glad that I stopped at tablet fiasco! looking back it was the right decision.
As it say: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
I still didn’t get my second half of the money from the tablet… but hey… shame on you!
For last few years I see that you’re trying to lose the remained supporters.
When does anyone think Jolla will cease services/updates for XA2 models?
@Jolla I get the point that you need available devices to attract new customers but taking in account that we all should do something tyo preserve the planet I can’t see the point of refusing paid upgrades if there is a base of customers willing to pay and keeping their devices…
Btw: Sonys decreasing sales should tell you something… The new firm factors are just not very practical…
A few days ago Google and Apple are charged because of abusing child labour in cobalt mines. Children died. That’s one thing. The other: we are running out of precious metals with overproduction of devices. Third: biodegradability of devices is bad. You are right elastic. This has to change.
Why i can’t buy sailfish X with 29.9€?
Hello Sailfish-World !
I guess this christmas-offer of 40%-discount is not belonging to users of the trial-Version ? There will be displayed 20%-discount only (39.90 Euro) !
As i purchased Xperia X to try out sailfish, i would prefer to use Android 8.1 instead of KitKat, it’s a matter of time, where old-Android-Apps are not usable anymore.
At least there should be also valid this 40%-discount, as it is closing time for selling Xperia Xs !
I would regret if Sailfish became an OS for geeks only. Geeks should not create a sect with instruments for them only, but stand in the midst of society and making something for everyone.
I am not tech savvy, yet I like this OS. Please do not give up the idea of a third alternative.
A question to Jolla: why not coöperating with a company that sells sustainable devices like Fairphone? The XA2 and XA2 plus are really nice devices, but sold out and how many are prepared to buy a new device each year?
Wish you all a Merry Xmas , Happy Chanukka, Happy New Year or just happy holidays.
Why the price is now 39.9？
I’m still seeing the discounted price in the shop.
Did you log in and are you an existing Sailfish customer?
Yes I’m sure i am log in . and my friends has the same problem
Sorry if I repeat an issue already covered elsewhere.
I just got my Xperia 10 and flashed it into SailfishOS 3.2 (latest update). Quite a difference performace wise compared to my Jolla 1. By the way also running 3.2.
Now, my great concern is how come I can still download almost any Android-app from Google Play to my Jolla 1 but on the Xperia 10 with the same OS level 3.2 you say Google Play is not supported!!??
How could anyone expect SailfishOS to become the choise for an ‘everydayphone’ with such a limitation? I don’t know how you ‘guys’ think, but I definitely need a number of common Android apps to make my day work. Some examples: Bankapp, Swish (an app for electronic payment, very commonly used in Sweden), BankID (the! app for eID in Sweden), apps for reading newspapers in the phone … and many more.
Are there any plans to reestablish support for access to Google Play Store? If not I can’t see anything else but SailfishOS becoming something to play around with but having to be complemented by an Android device for every day usage.
To bad – I really like SailfishOS (purchased my Jolla 1 in 2014 and was also one of those who invested in the Jolla surfpad that never got released).
Dear Jolla,
I won’t buy a new phone as long as the current one is working. It would be a waste, and not an of the economical kind.
Furthermore, I remain unimpressed by this new device. I’d rather have a Fairphone.
I really don’t get the rebate you’re giving. As it was already said here: I would be happy to pay full price and reflash my device.
That being said, I really like Sailfish OS. Keep up the good work.
Your reasoning is flawed – of course you should be updating Sailfish on Xperia X, even if it requires users flash a new baseport. After waiting for updates to the Android layer to fix various critical bugs (that I see from the release notes are now fixed in the XA2) that never came to the Xperia X and watching it get harder and harder to install or update any Android app, I finally (and very reluctantly) was forced to flash my Xperia X back to Android 8. If the Android layer is updated on the Xperia X I will return, but since that seems to not be happening…
So long, and thanks for all the Fish.
@DarkStarSword Did you had a backup of your DRM keys? Did you notice loss of functionality when flashing back to Android 8?
Hi guys and happy new year.
I just went for an Xperia XA2 to try Sailfish, it’s been a while.
Your shop says : Special offer for current Sailfish customers: You can now purchase a new Sailfish X licence for any supported Sailfish device for just 29.90€. Campaign ends on January 6, 2020.
But the price is at 39.90
Is there something wrong ?
Regards
great system for my sony xperia 10
Slight necro (sorry folks),
I just wanted to also express my disappointment at the decision not to bring 8.1 support to Xperia X.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m still thankful the X is being supported, but it’s no longer my daily driver because of this decision.
It’s just not necessary IMO to discard a phone that functions fine, and is the ideal form factor (also IMO).
As proposed by others in the comments, I support repurchasing a Sailfish X license and re-flashing as necessary to obtain 8.1 support. It’s certainly better than buying a brand new handset as well as a license.
Opening up a survey to gauge how other Xperia X users might feel on the matter would serve well, please consider this.
Thank you for all your hard work
Very happy to see X10 and X10PLUS Got Supported.
Any chance to see X5 fully supported?