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Tablet refunds: Second phase paid out

Update Jan 1st 2018: This post will be updated after each refund batch is paid instead of a new post.

Update December 25th: Next batch of refunds paid to 81 of the 100 randomly selected backers.

Greetings to all Jolla Tablet backers We started to pay the second batch of our refund program to the randomly selected backers using MySQL mathematical functions yesterday, after solving the problems that delayed the transaction. As of today, 8th of November 2017, 83 of the backers who chose to receive their money will receive a PayPal notification following the transfer of the funds.

Sailfish X vouchers

As communicated on previous blog post, backers could choose an option to receive a voucher valued at €49.90 in order to purchase a Sailfish X license using their remaining refund. As of the publishing date of this blog post, we have over 800 of backers choosing the mentioned option. We will do our best to avoid such issues and delays for the following phases as they are frustrating as it gets for both parties. Cheers, James, on behalf of the refund team

James Noori

Community Manager at Jolla. Gadget geek. Open source supporter and advocate. Long time Jolla blogger in a third party blog. Ready to change the world with unique and unusual alternatives!

105 Comments

  1. Speaking of people acquiring Sailfish X : could you also include the total number of downloads ?
    (Both people buying it with voucher and regular customers) If it’s not a business secret, that is.

    It would be interesting to know how many of use there are. (Bonus point if you can compare to the evolution of Jolla 1 user base back then).

    • I know that that number is not precise but the download-count of the “Predective text input” app for Sailfish X is at 1000+.

      As the user is prompted if they want it at install and I don’t see any reason not to install it I think that’s at least somewhat representative of the total number of sales.

    • Hi!

      Thanks for commenting.
      We currently are not going to release any numbers regarding Sailfish X sales, as they are still increasing every day. It isn’t really comparable to Jolla 1 sales since this is a software that you flash on your device and Jolla 1 was a hardware with Sailfish OS installed on it already.

      • Well James, no data on todays sales?
        Yesterdays numbers will do.
        The title: PAID OFF.
        Announcement: 83 backers compensated.
        What went wrong: the language or the math?

        • oh well, my wishful thinking.
          Took PAID OUT for PAID OFF.
          So what percentage of the backers are refunded by yesterday:)?

  2. Diden’t win!

    Maybe next month.

    800 backers should speed up refund game. Maybe increase to 300 next month?

    • Let’s hope for that Dave! We would love to be able to pay everyone at the same time and honestly be done with the refunds. But the reality is that we need to keep our accounting in check as well. Let’s see how many we will have the capacity to refund during next month… Fingers crossed.

      • This month you mean? Or did you skip one month?

        • Well, we never said that we will do this each month. We said that we will do it each month that we have the financial possibility of doing so. It is yet to be confirmed which months we will choose to do the next round.

          • That’s why I was asking. :) Have you consider the Christmas edition sailfish update?

  3. So 83 out of the 100 backers for this round chose to just take the money rather than donate it or trade it for credit? Not sure what I was expecting, but judging by this it does seem like the vast majority of backers are more interested in getting their money back than keeping Jolla afloat. The number of people who have expressed interest in trading in their second refund for credit isn’t that impressive either considering the fact that the tablet had more than 21.000 backers (thou not all of them were for a whole device and this includes the 661 people who actually got their tablet).

    So if this sample is representative of the backers as a whole, we can expect the usual suspect to continue spamming the Jolla blog comments section for a long while…

    Still, let’s hope this will continue to demonstrate to people that Jolla is not simply some fly-by-night operation.

    • Asking for the money is not the same thing as want to see Jolla gone. Many of these Jolla supporters are likely to buy something from Jolla again.

      Without refund I doubt many would buy something again.

      • Right. I wanted the tablet as my first Sailfish Device – we all know the rest if the Story. So I got a Jolla C instead, an now I’m waiting for a YouYota Sailfish Tablet from this summers Indiegogo campaign. Taking the refund has nothing in common with a disbelieve in Jollas Future; but Sailfish X is so far no option, so I even didn’t take a voucher for that (don’t need to buy another mobile phone when I have two working ones).

    • On the upside, so far roughly 30% have been either donating or not reacting at all which is not the worst stats we could have ;) But thank you for your comment and understanding, L_A_G. And one detail here: the backers are not 21000! They are a bit over 7000. The amount of pledges are over 21000 which comes from the 7000+ backers that we had.

      Yes, this isn’t an overnight operation at all. It’s far from that! We are doing our best to balance everything and pay as much refunds as our accounting sheets allow us to do. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that everything moves upwards so we can increase this [roughly] 100 refunds per batch number.

      • Okay, let’s be optimistic and assume 30% of backers continue to take the donation option. That leaves ~5000 backers still waiting for a refund.

        At 100 backers per month, that’s 50 months, over 4 years, to process refunds. Jolla won’t even commit to doing it every month. This is in addition to already keeping backers money for over 3 years!

        Jolla’s incompetent crowd funding campaign was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I no longer back crowd funding projects, they are always delayed or pulling a Jolla and leaving with your money.

        Who needs VC financing when you can just fleece crowd funders?

        Maybe Jolla can charge other companies to share their experience of interest-free financing through crowd funding.

    • For myself it’s just getting my money back. I’m no more interested in any kind in jolla inc. Neither their gadgets, nor the sailfish platform at all …

  4. As of 5/11/2017 I emailed Jala in Bolivia. Their AcciONE P with Sailfish OS loaded is apparently available for sale. 5″ FHD (1080 x 1920) screen, Snapdragon 430, 3Gb / 32Gb, 2250 mAh battery for US$199 + shipping and their frequencies are a perfect match for Australian bands. I viewed unboxing videos but everything is in Spanish as is Jala’s main site. The phone looks like an iPhone 5 SE but with slightly smaller top and bottom bezels. If I get a reply I will get one – maybe two. Will keep you informed. Not holding my breathe but might get lucky.
    ps – I’m still waiting for the other half of my tablet refund but I’m not concerned.

    • Oh alright, that’s great to hear! Let us know how it went and if you got the devices or not. It’d be an interesting story.

      Hopefully you will receive your other half of refund very soon as well. Fingers crossed!

  5. wow!!! after 3 years!!! gr8 job!!!

    still waiting for my refund!!!

  6. Seeing as how I haven’t received any emails since the first refund. I hope I can get the second half soon.

  7. Correction US$249 + shipping

    • Keep the updates coming please

      I might be interested in this!

  8. still waiting for my refund. I’ve received a mail last month to choose… Nothing happened as usual. Always promises…

  9. Excellent news. I’m fortunate enough to be able to use the refund to pay for Sailfish X, which is working really well – thanks Jolla! There are a couple of oddities, but I’m sure they’ll be sorted out in time. Far better than having to move to Android, as my original white phone was nearly dead. Onwards and upwards!
    A question then: Sony make tablets. Is there a plan to offer Sailfish on one of them?

  10. Jala Accione P phone (they call it DRIVE P phone in Bolivia) is available in DumbDroid, but in Sailfish OS – not available till Jan. 2018. I will wait.
    Got info from various local News outlets. I phoned them but girl at front desk did not did not understand my English – then 2IC (male) had the same problem. I’m Australian, might be different if I was from Queensland. Growing pains I guess.

    • Noice!

      Keep the updates coming man, appreciated

  11. waiting for my refund!
    Do we know any new news?

  12. I’m waiting too. Since a long long time.

  13. Allmost a month further .. how nice would it be of this company to make amends with their users of the first hour .. their backers .. the people who once believed in this lying company !

    It’s Xmas time .. give us our money back so we can buy the people we love presents instead of filling the pockets of the board members of Jolla !!

  14. A good example of crowd funded project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/ugl/ultimate-hacking-keyboard/updates

    Updates are posted every month with real progress. Yes, the project was delayed a lot because of many reasons. But finally is at the end of the journey.

    Here At Jolla Tablet I have a feeling that random algorithm was chosen just to hide the transparency of the refund process.

  15. I received the email stating I could receive my refund, but even this was a pain. The options presented on the website were wholly unclearly worded.

    Crossing my fingers that I chose the one where I could receive my money and wash my hands of this.

  16. @Scishfottman When did you receive the email? In December?

    • I too got a refund email – on 8th December – from James.

      As @Scishfottman wrote, the options – when you click the link – are very unclear and do not seem to correspond to the email at all. None of them just says ‘refund the money’. I replied to the email on 8th seeking clarification but have had no response yet.

      • The web form linked to in the email has been changed. It’s fine now. Thanks.

        • Yes sorry about the confusion caused.

  17. Since I’ve got none I’ll have to wait yet another round. :-(

  18. I have heard nothing, received no emails, since the first half of the refund!

  19. I am with the above two.

  20. Just another scandalous scheme to delay the full refund! It’s really straightforward and fair to refund all backers with the same amount/per-order that equals your claimed financially allowable total divided by the number pre-ordered quantity.

  21. @alandal I agree, this is getting scandalous. Although Jolla is, by the terms on Indiegogo, not obliged to a refund, once they promised they would pay back what they had received, they put themselves under that obligation. The reluctance with which they’re fulfilling their promise now is far from satisfactory. They don’t seem to realise that even now their previous backers still are multiplicators. And with the performance they’re showing in the refund case I’m absolutely not convinced I’ll ever tell anything good about Jolla in the forseeable future.

    You just don’t treat people this way.

  22. Jolla obviously do!!

  23. I’ll be completely honest. I’m starting to doubt that the second round has refunded anyone.

    • if it helps: i have been refunded in december. I took two SailfishX vouchers and let jolla keep the money. I can understand that the slow pace of refunds is annoying for you, but jolla didn’t have to refund anything in the first place, thats the risk we were agreeing to when taking part in crowdfunding. that’s why i didn’t take any money back from jolla (ok, just two sailfishX vouchers).

  24. So when will we get the rest of our refund?
    No news from Jolla side at all.

  25. I was at the launch of the Jolla phone in Helsinki – I got phone number 274. I travelled there because I believed in the dream, and to an extent I still do. I’m still waiting for the refund, and reading this thread I’m disturbed to see that you are treating no reply as an invitation to keep the refund. I watch my email and I’m 99% sure I haven’t had one – but inertia retention of other people’s money isn’t good enough given there is no way to check if you have been invited. So how about it? I’d like my money back and I’m not going to forego it, though I’m waiting patiently, give me a way to check how the queue is going and don’t assume you can just keep my money – a 3 year interest free loan is plenty enough sorry

  26. I kind of wanted to pop in and echo subhuman’s Jan 7th post. When I first backed the tablet I had high hopes given the history behind the Jolla team.

    Now; I find those hopes dashed against a series of hard rocks. I’m finding it very difficult to maintain a civil outward expression towards Jolla, and in turn Sailfish.

    On some level I would like to think that I understand the difficulty in obtaining financing giving how quickly things went badly for Jolla. I would like to be gracious and given Jolla the benefit of the doubt.

    Yet; I can’t help but contemplate on how the refunds were going to be done in two waves. The first part of the refund arrived as expected… but now the delay in the randomization sequence on the second wave?

    I get a distinct impression that the creditors that agreed to finance Jolla don’t understand just how much word of mouth means in towards massive web of social media. It’s one thing if a “Lamestream” ragzine or publication slags off on a company. It’s quite another when the people you know on FB, Twitter, G+, Diaspora, Gab.Ai, and so on begin to slag off on a company. Reading about Samsung Galaxy 7′s exploding makes for good headlines; but really doesn’t impact people very much. Seeing the pictures of your besty’s hand on Instagram wrapped in bandages after a G7 exploded on them is quite another.

    The point here to make is that the very personal interactions that drive social media have a far greater impact on customer perception. The inability, unwillingness, or whatever it is that is keeping Jolla silent… is doing far more damage to Jolla’s reputation among the customers Jolla is targeting… than any competitor’s advertising campaign.

    • @Zerias I think you’re just overestimating the impact of the issue. There are very few people here and on various social media channels around Jolla who spam every topic with their “Refund! Refund!” gibberish. It just so happens that they acted so foolishly over time that nobody would want to be on their side. It’s like a vegetarian couple sitting @McDonald’s for hours, never stopping to complain about the tons of meat being sold and eaten there… Maybe at first a few other guests will listen to what they say, but when they keep repeating after a few minutes and after their daughter left for the cinema, nobody even notices any more.

      The other thing is that as things are today, consumers needn’t even trust Jolla, anyway. They need to trust Jala, Inoi, Intex or whatever Jolla’s business partners are. It’s those business partners ho need to trust Jolla… and as a company like Jala, I’d find it very strange if Jolla (given its financial situation) gives away money to people for no reason at all, without any obligation.

      Talking about obligation: You refer to subhuman’s comment in which he claimed that Jolla “promised they would pay back what they had received, they put themselves under that obligation.” That’s a lie (one of many) and one of the reasons why people who never stop talking about “Refunds!” are hardly taken seriously.

      • If McD was trying to build a burger for you and you fiancée but came up short I’m sure people would like their money back.

        • oh, yes please. I never received the tablet like ossi1867 did so I’d be moooore than happy to have the money instead.

      • Why are you spreading those lies ossi? Jolla has indeed promised to pay back the backers, and even confirmed it several times. Why are you all over the place? What’s your agenda? There are people being upset because of broken dreams and promises, and they are in their right to be, suck it up and live with it.

        https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/
        «2. Refund the remaining Indiegogo contributors: Jolla aims to refund the total contribution, including shipping and all accessories. Due to the financial constraints this will happen in two parts: half of the refund will be done during Q1/2016, and the other half within a year, our financial situation permitting.»

        https://blog.jolla.com/summer-2017-ceo-update/
        «It has been a while since our last update about the remaining Jolla Tablet refunds – we are committed to it and we will be progressing on it in a pace our financial situation permits us to do.»

        You see the part: «we are committed to it» etc? ;)

  27. As communicated previously, we will comment on this matter whenever we have news. Currently, the whole team is busy with MWC preparations which means we won’t have time to proceed with any refunds. On top of that, MWC is an extremely expensive congress to attend for any company and as it stands it is understandable that we do not have the means to pay anything back until after MWC. More on that later when we are back and the MWC fever is over. Thanks for being patient with us!

    • Then why don’t you just add that on top of this blog post so everyone knows what is going instead of of nu updates for almost 3 months? Anyhow good to know.

      Sweet! MWC is over soon so we can get back to the real world and important stuff.

  28. Hope MWC goes well for you!
    I know that the refunds have dragged out, but the fact that you (Jolla) have made one half payment, says that Jolla has the best intentions. I am happy to wait for the relatively small other half (as long as it does eventually arrive).
    I would also personally be happy to accept a Sailfish OS download voucher, or whatever it is, instead, but your phones, etc are not sold in my region of the world.
    So, I can’t just swap my refund for some hardware (phone), either, for the same reason.
    I have an older Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition. This is no longer support, but I would like to try to install Sailfish… Any ideas?

  29. How many left to refund?

    • ditto how many left to refund?

  30. Hello, do we know something new about the second returns of the money?

  31. Not to my knowledge

  32. So MWC is passed for some weeks. There aren’t any updates on how we get the refund, but that the company continues with development and signs contracts etc… While at the same time the refund isn’t mentioned at the roadmap 2018.

    To make it short: When will Jolla Inc. give the remaining money back?

    • The question isn’t when, but if. They’re not obliged to do so and they never said they would. Of course continuing development (which they don’t, a new release is overdue) and getting new partners on board is a lot more important than giving presents to a bunch of people who didn’t know what they were doing when they paid for a crowdfunding campaign.

      • You’re quite funny ossi. Considered doing standup? :)

      • To help on your memory: https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-closure/

        «2. Refund the remaining Indiegogo contributors: Jolla aims to refund the total contribution, including shipping and all accessories. Due to the financial constraints this will happen in two parts: half of the refund will be done during Q1/2016, and the other half within a year, our financial situation permitting.»

        • @rued: I had this paragraph in mind when I wrote my comment. Other han you, it seems, I read and understood it: *If* the financial situation allows it, they’ll *try* to…

          If my significant other tells me that “If the weather is sunny tomorrow, we could think of erating ice cream in the garden.”, I wouldn’t interpret that as “Tomorrow we will eat ice cream in the garden” – not even if the weather turns out to be sunny.

          • That’s funny ossi. You have stated people are lying etc., and that Jolla never have promised or commited themself to anything. Well, they have done so, no doubt about that. It’s even confirmed in several later posts etc. that they will, even if that relies on the financial situation – it will be done when they can they have stated.

            No, the easy solution would be to keep that promise, or at least update the people waiting regularly, and the “wining” would be less.

            https://blog.jolla.com/summer-2017-ceo-update/
            «It has been a while since our last update about the remaining Jolla Tablet refunds – we are committed to it and we will be progressing on it in a pace our financial situation permits us to do.»

            You see the part: «we are committed to it» etc? ;)

            • @rued: Maybe it really *is* a language thing. Maybe you really don’t understand the meaning of the words. Maybe you’re not able to process if|then-clauses. (Seems your confusing if and when.)

              There’s little more to say as the paragraph you cite now basically repeats what was in the first paragraph: They’ll try to achieve it if they can.

              (“Commited”? Really? If my boss aska me to finish a presentation by Friday, I could say “Yes, it will be finished by Friday.” if and only if I’m 100% sure I’ll be done by then. If I have doubts but would like to express that against all odds I’ll at least try, I would say something like “I’m committed to it, I’ll progress as fast as other projects will allow me to.” My boss will understand. Obviously, you don’t.)

              • Are you a paid troll, or what is your agenda ossi?

                There is nothing in this being unclear, except you and your own personal interpretation, which you seem to think gives you the right to harass people.

                They said they are committed to pay back the money when financial situation permits them to do it – that means when. Period.

                • Your own false statement above: “They’re not obliged to do so and they never said they would.”

                  There is no doubt thay did say they would – when …

                  • @rued: They’re not obliged to: true.

                    They never said they would: true as proven above. (And again, it’s “if”, not “when”.)

                    You don’t understand the difference between “when” and “if”. You don’t understand the difference between “we will” and “we aim to”. That’s your fault, not theirs.

                    • Sorry to say, but you fail to understand some basics, unless you just is a troll doing it on purpose.

                      I think most will see and understand this, so just continue on if you like … :)

  33. “This post will be updated after each refund batch is paid instead of a new post” is an excuse to not post any more.
    The business model seems to be “Let’s keep going with our business and what we’re interested and maybe in time the people whose money helped us get there might forget we owe them”

    How many refunds remain to be issued?
    What is the timeframe therefore likely to be.?
    Continued development on other fronts whilst repeating we don’t have money to issue the refunds just does’nt remain believable forever.

  34. Q1 2018 has passed and no news regarding this. Hoping, but not knowing what to expect is the annoying part. Please provide us with some info. If you think no refunds will be paid out during Q2 or even Q3 please tell us that. Regularly having to return to this old blog post to look for an update is kind of annoying…

    I still believe you have the best intentions but it’s really starting to feel like you want to forget us and move on.

  35. This post was originally posted on November 8, 2017. This post is no longer on the first page of the blog. I honestly believe that Jolla is trying to push this behind them. Even the title of this post states “paid out.”
    If I was just a random non tablet customer, that looks as if they are saying they have paid every one.

    At this point a new post should be made with information on how many Tablet backers/Customers have not received a refund.

    I would hopefully like the rest of my money before 2019, so I can hopefully forget about this experience.

  36. Yes, it is about time Jolla gave us another update on the refunds

  37. Not surprisingly still no news – they probably don’t even check the posts here anymore – they’re probably thinking
    “Jätä meidät huomiotta, lopulta he unohtavat ja menevät pois.”

  38. Why no news, I have heard nothing, received no emails, since the first half of the refund!

  39. When will you provide the remaining refunds?
    You’ve had an interest free loan of my money for a long time now?
    And you won’t even talk to me anymore!

    • This was not a loan. You gave the money away for good. Period. Your risk. Don’t wine now if you can’t make financial decisions.

      • You’re right, it was not a loan. But as the money didn’t go into what it was intended to do, it could be named something less nice. Stop wining yourself please. ;)

        • @rued: The money did go into what it was intended for. Every single cent. (It just wasn’t enough.) Stop lying.

          • So you have the documentation on it then? From what I’ve seen there was done several “mistakes”, causing the failure to deliver (public info).

      • We gave the money in good faith that it was going to be used to manufacture the device that was promised in the campaign.
        They didn’t do fully do that.

        The devices were made, but the manufacturer wasn’t paid.
        The campaign got a lot more money than initially asked, so it should’ve been enough. But it wasn’t.

        Not our fault that they screwed up, so now we want the rest of our money back.

        If you purchase a car, and the car manufacturer goes and spend that money on R&D and not on the actual car, and subsequently pulls the plug on the car. Do you say: “oh well, I gave the money away for good, I shouldn’t have wanted to buy a car in the first place. It’s a good thing they have used the money for R&D for future cars”?
        Or do you say: “Where’s my money? I demand a refund!”

  40. I would also like an update on this.

  41. News of today is that Jolla found money to be Silver sponsor of foss-north 2018 … ;)

  42. Where is my comment? (Why )was it removed?

    • It’s the russian influence … ;)

      • Yeah I now think we will never see any more refunds or hear anything about this from Jolla. I’m done. Finally leaving the sinking ship.

  43. This morning I’ve got an email from Jolla…. my money is back? Nono, it’s just about the GDPR. C’mon Jolla, give us back the money. Long time has passed and we did not see anything.
    How anybody can trust your product when you are not transparent with us? Put an update on this page, showing you care about us. This is the first rule in marketing communications and cost nothing.
    Waiting for your reply!

  44. So this is the post where you should post the updates? Not easy to find and no info/updates.

    A bump with info would be valuable for the backers and supporters.

  45. So no new post from Jolla for too long – bet they don’t even bother checking this post anymore – they’re not interested in the people who banked rolled their other projects. As long as they have their salaries and incomes…
    ENOUGH ALREADY GET THE LAST REFUNDS DONE AND SETTLE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!

  46. Any new update on this second round of refunding?

  47. So Jolla still announces new release, introduce new supported device, give interviews and visit tech stages … but why to hell aren’t you tell us ANYTHING how we will proceed with the remaining money? >:( This is absolutely unprofessional and shows that Jolla Inc. doesn’t care about this part of the community anymore…

  48. Come on Jolla let us have an update on the refund status

  49. Echoing the call for a bump and an update. It’s approaching 7 months since the last time this post was addressed; and this is beginning to feel more like a joke.

  50. I think it’s really poor execution of jolla. Even if the can’t refund all now. They should at least have money to refund someone, if not a few.

    Buying stuff from jolla is a gamble. But if jolla could start the jolla gamble machine and select atleast one winner it would be great. Jolla can’t afford one supporter every month?

    It would take like 6500 years to refund all. But at lest they are trying.

    I fail to believe that it’s a decision about money. Jolla simply don’t want try to solve this situation.

    • well said. they’re not even going to refund us.. no matter what they say

  51. Dear Jolla team,

    What is the status of the refund program? I think that that the community deserves an answer even if it would just be a status update saying that you will inform later what is going to happen.

    • We will update you when we have an update. Curently the situation is similar, hence no communication about it. There will be a payment rolling out for another group of random backers. We will update you when we have everything concretely in place. Thanks for your patience.

  52. Will there be more refunds? I got the first part in 2016. I though the second part would come sooner.

    • There will be more refunds based on our positive cash flow.

      • what a load of BS. don’t believe a word

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