Hello all Jolla Tablet followers,
We’ve again received many questions about the Jolla Tablet and its schedule, and now it is time for a new update.
Previously we communicated that we started the Jolla Tablet shipping in October with a relatively small first batch. Many people have since received their tablets, and we’ve been happy to see several tweets and unboxing videos, commemorating this.
In the previous communication we stated that wave 2 shipments will occur at the beginning of November. Unfortunately, we have not been able to keep this timeline for wave 2. This can be attributed to various factors and simply the fact that we are still a start-up. We are pushing to start wave 2 shipments a couple of weeks late, i.e., by the end of November.
The wave 3 schedule will be communicated as soon as we have more details. There are a few unclear items related to this, and we do not want to provide you with incomplete information. At that time, we will also provide more info regarding refund option (that was communicated in early Oct. 2015). Please stay tuned.
We understand all too well that this is a big disappointment for many of you, and we sincerely apologize for this turn of events.
Aptoide: tailored Aptoide app store
On a positive note, we are glad to introduce a new enhancement for using your favorite Android apps on the Jolla Tablet. Our friends at Aptoide have built and released a specific Jolla Tablet Aptoide app store. To put it very simply, the idea is to offer you an easy way to find well-functioning Android apps for your Jolla Tablet.
As many of you might know, Aptoide has a very wide selection of Android apps available, but many of them have compatibility issues with the Jolla Tablet due to the different chipset optimizations. Thus we’ve asked Aptoide to build this separate store to include only properly tested applications for the Jolla Tablet. Currently the selection is somewhat limited, but the app availability is growing as we speak. From the get-go the selection includes most popular apps like Twitter, Facebook, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Instagram, Spotify, and Dropbox, to name just a few.
You can find the Jolla Tablet specific app store in Aptoide under the ‘Store’ link. Additionally, you can browse it online here.
If you have already installed the previous version of Aptoide on your Jolla Tablet, you need to install the new version, i.e. the old version will not be updated. This way you can also keep the old Aptoide version if you wish.
On behalf of the whole Jolla team, Juhani
And again no information on “how big” the second wave will be…
no waves , what about the refund , at least for 2 of the 3 tablets ,wait ideas I ordered ?
It’s ready when it’s ready!
I’m old software developer and used in the old times Borland tools. The above was their slogan when developers demanded when they’ll be get new version of the product.
I’ve already bought three Jolla phones and I’m happy I did. Jolla is a awesome phone. The first one was for myself from the original batch and the second one was for my wife. She is former iPhone and N9 user and now enjoys Jolla. I’ve just ordered the third one to have a spare one.
I’m waiting for my Jolla tablet and I hope I can get it for this Christmas. Later is also okey for me. The worst case scenario is that I don’t get it at all. I do not want to fall back to be iOS or Android user.
If you are not short of money, why not to buy a new Jolla phone from the Jolla Shop? It’s probably the best way to support Jolla in this situation.
I believe Jolla survives and if not, Sailfish OS will be probably given to community which will support it the future.
All I want is Jolla 🙂
never is when you’ll get your tablet , still feel positive ?
We may never get our tablets before Jolla shuttered https://cdn.jolla.com/content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pd
https://cdn.jolla.com/content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf.
Some reason the last letter cut off
Lassila,
Does the second shipment wave will include all backers from first campaign or less ?
I betless , way less
Why is it so hard just to let us early backers have a clue as to which or where we are with regards to each wave. Folks who answer the zendesk tickets are just as worthless as this blogpost.
Here is a bit of advice. Your ambiguity is causing more anger than it needs to. Stop with the “a couple of weeks late” verbiage. Give hard dates as to when you will give updates. If you don’t have info on that date, let us know and give another hard date.
By being ambiguous, you leave things open to interpretation and piss people off. Telling me “the beginning of November got pushed back a couple of weeks”, I hear the third week, you say “by the end”.
Stop bullshitting smart people. They see through it. Communicate and they will at least feel as if you are trying rather than saying “in a little while”.
totally agree
Signed and stamped from my side too…
+2 totally agree!
@Scishfottman: This doesn’t make sense at all. People are pissed *because* Jolla gave “hard dates” (to the best of their knowledge, then), but couldn’t deliver in time. Now they are in a state when they don’t know dates themselves and everything is in flux. What you’re asking for now is that they make up some imaginary date that they know is wrong only to avoid saying “by the end of November” (which actually is a pretty good estimation).
Well I’d be more than happy if they said that most of their some 10k backers won’t receive their tablet before end of January, even if that date can still be beaten.
When they succeed to be quicker than that, fine, who will complain?
Or do you think people will be more prone to stay if they get informed the way they do?
I’d rather they gave a pessimistic estimate and try to beat that whilst living with the fact that it’ll certainly go against some of our patience than saying it’s all in flux and you’ll get it when you get it.
The only danger I see for doing it my suggested way would be if even such a pessimistic date could still be missed!
@MoritzJT: “… even such a pessimistic date could still be missed!” – That’s all there is to say now, right. There’s no use in lying, no matter if they’re lying by giving a “pessimistic estimate” or by giving some made-up date as some fellows here demand. The point is that Jolla is no longer in control and whatever they say today can be totally different tomorrow. So the only reasonable way to deal with the situation is to communicate what seems most likely right now, knowing that it can change any minute.
I see the bigger picture 😉 I think what most here want is a look behind the curtains – e.g. total transparency even with the minute details that are in this case the root cause. It might not be possible or reasonable for Jolla to communicate them from a business perspective and I think that’s what most here will have to understand and one point. We don’t live in Utopia yet 😉
@MoritzJT
>It might not be possible or reasonable for Jolla to communicate them from a business perspective
>If Jolla communicated those, it’ll all fire back again. So that’s exactly why we get the information we get now – party we deserve nothing less and nothing more
>Not that it made things any better or could be considered acceptable as a business practice
You keep using these words – “business perspective”, “business practice”… May I ask you where exactly have you seen such practices? Here in Russia no contractor in his sane mind will ever demand from his client an NDA on his own fails. When the agreed shipping schedule is disrupted, the client has every right to know the exact reasons.
For example, last year we were developing a custom high-precision rate table and met our deadline, because our OWN contractor – the factory which produces precise stepper motors – ran into a problem during manufacturing process because the motor we ordered was a custom design. So, we got the exact info about the nature of the problem from them, passed it to our customers, and everyone was satisfied. Our customers changed their plans to accommodate this delay.
This is OUR “business practice”. It’s not even considered something especially “open” or “transparent”, just the normal way to do things.
+1
I think it is not a good business practice when you loose the majority of your supporters.
The client in this case would be Jolla and the servicer would be the factory. Now is it possible the factory only produces stuff for Jolla with them under NDA so they cannot tell their customers, that the factory messed up? I do not know, it was just my pet theory lacking thorough thought.
+1
> People are pissed *because* Jolla gave “hard dates” (to the best of their knowledge, then), but couldn’t deliver in time
Please read posts carefully before replying to them. Scishfottman said nothing about giving hard dates of tablet delivery, only about hard dates of updates (e.g. blog posts). Nothing is stopping Jolla from making a blog post once a week (and I mean a *proper* update with detailed description of current situation, not something like what is posted at the top of this page).
@ScumCoder: Jolla can give daily or even hourly updates. It wouldn’t be enough for those people as long as the update doesn’t contain the words “All tablets were shipped an hour ago.” All this discussion about “communication” is a red herring. No matter what Jolla writes or how often, people will find it not sufficient as long as the basic message doesn’t change. And the message, for the time being, is: “Sorry, guys, we’re late. Yet again.” It’s bizarre to demand weekly updates when the situation doesn’t change weekly and none of these updates will ever satisfy readers.
It would satisfy the readers if say Jolla named and blamed some external factors if true so the anger could vent some other way – but then again it might still be exactly down to being an inexperienced startup – some internal screw-ups that led to the situation they’re in now. If Jolla communicated those, it’ll all fire back again. So that’s exactly why we get the information we get now – party we deserve nothing less and nothing more. Not that a few of us couldn’t handle the actual facts but seeing how many comments here communicate a red line in the sand, that’s not very likely to be the bigger picture.
You know, when you write posts like this I wonder if you have even looked into another crowdfunding projects besides jPad. I suggest you to take a look at this
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla/updates
or this
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hellobragi/the-dash-wireless-smart-in-ear-headphones/updates
or any other decent startup. They ALL run into problems, they ALL slip their deadlines and postpone delivery. But #unlike Jolla, they keep their pledgers informed WHY. They tell them exactly what they do, what troubles they encounter, what steps they undertake to overcome these troubles. And – SURPRISE! – their pledgers are NOT MAD AT THEM! AMAZING! Who would have thought that treating people who gave you their money like you actually care about them will soften their anger and make them patient and forgiving for your faults.
Exactly so.
People understand when there are problems, nobody expects there won’t be any. Its all about how you resolve them.
+1 Jolla promised openness. I doubt many of the backers would agree that it was run in an open manner. Indeigogo should do a survey.
As you like to call as “THOSE PEOPLE” gave monetary boost to Jolla, so they should be grateful for that, and not acting as we are all dumb. Seriously what is with you and all of those “defending Jolla BS”?
Have you received your tablet yet?
as for me i’m not pissed because Jolla didnt deliver in time.
I am pissed because every single date they ever communicated just went by with no info at all. Don’t try to make me believe that they didn’t know this a week ago.
Everyone knew that there was a further delay already how can it be so fcking hard to communicate a delay before the aimed date just passes by.
Everytime it needs an uproar of the community to even get us this weak contentless ‘updates’
Well, I am frustrated too, but “the end of November” seems rather definite. As in, November 30th. Hopefully 2015.
+1
totally agree
+1
totally agree
x11ty billion !!!
If haven’t received a mail with shipping confirmation, you aren’t on the November shipping list. At least that’s what I remember from one of the previous posts. Even if you are on the late November shipping, you very likely won’t receive the tablet before end of December. If it continuos like now, I don’t expect my tablet before March 2016. Let’s remember, we supported Jolla to deliver May 2015. Updated Hardware can’t be the reason for this delay. I got 30 years experience as engineer in the IT industry. If a change in HW would cause 8-10 month in time to market, there would be “no” IT product on this planet.
Terribly dissapointed
Please inform us by email which wave we belong!
I’m also very interested in wich wave I’m in…
This would be definitely fair, and I bet that people would be more calm. Somebody would decide to either stick with Jolla and wait for their turn, and others would select second option of full refund. When I am saying full refund, I really mean that. Anything else would be just the same as fraud. I also don’t understand the logic that you would have to pay tax for tablet that is not going to be shipped to you, so you can get refund…
Well I will tell you what wave I’m in,…. the returns tsunami.
Maybe it’s a good idea to sort out the people who want to cancel, then you can make less tablets, thus making things a little easier for yourselves.
Christmas deadline for me, after that it’s useless.
You could not hvae said it any better!!!!
Did you know that you will not manage to do the November wave when you made me complete my order and pay another 40€?
And when I asked for a refund after you failed on your own 10-business-days-to-shipping claim, you told me that you don’t even know if my tablet was shipped yet or not and that I have to wait?
40€? I had to pay 68$ (63€) ‘Tax’ when I completed my order! And although I paid these 63€ in addition, I’m still waiting to get a tablet. 🙁 (Status: “paid”)
Could it be that paying tax is just another way to generate cash for Jolla?
OK, couple weeks, but still in this century?!?
Guys, you lost your name. I do not believe you anymore.
Sorry but this “update” is wholly inadequate. Blaming this on being a start up is nonsense and just destroys any modicum of credibility you have.
Your Chairman set our expectations. Where is he to deliver and account for himself?
Can we please have a full detailed disclosure involving dates and timescales for each person who has ordered and what suggestions you have for putting this right other than just saying sorry. Referring just to two unspecific batches is no longer acceptable. Details of where we each rank is required. I am sure we all consent to that.
The media response to Jolla at Slush is likely to be affected by how quickly you can provide a full response and deal with this debacle. Your timing is not good here.
I don’t think they care. Just look at this: https://twitter.com/TimoSavolainen/status/664324870487023616
Guy is using this campaign as a positive example.
@Turbinenreiter: According to his profile, he’s not working at Jolla – so the tweet might be seen as window to the real word where people don’t blow things out of all proportions. 🙂
You think calling a crowdfunding campaign that is unable to ship it’s perks a failure is blowing things out of proportion?
You think this crowdfunding campaign is a positive example? You think Jolla did a good job here?
@Turbinenreiter: It’s wrong to claim they’re unable to ship. Shipments have started. They are a few months late (~4 months for those who were in the first wave, ~5 months for those in the second), which is not at all the disaster people make of ít here. It’s not uncommon with crowdfunding campaigns. Also, as I wrote repeatedly, the phone was half a year late in 2013. It’s hard for me to understand why it should be an issue now when it wasn’t then. Yes, the whole tablet story is a very positive one: a great success in funding, award-winning UX, successful showcase for the scalability a still young OS… the *only* negative thing you can say about it is that it’s late. Well, that’s a pity, but it doesn’t make all the positive points invalid.
It’s completely ridiculous to talk about anything positive about a product that doesn’t exist.
They shipped 200 pieces. You are talking about a second wave as if there is one. The promised one, but they are already late on that.
Here is the thing:
I WAS in that second wave. They sent me the mail to complete my order, which I did, paying another 40€ for tax and shipping. They confirmed my order and told me that they will ship the tablet within 10 business days. That was on October 14th. I still don’t have a tablet. After they missed their 10-days-until-shipping deadline they set themselves, they didn’t care to inform me. I opened up a support ticket, where at first they told me that everything is fine. After I still didn’t get my tablet, I asked again, this time they answered that they have problems with their fulfillment center and that it will take some weeks to sort it out. At this point I asked them for a refund – to which they answered that they don’t know where my tablet is and they want to figure out if it was shipped already before giving me a refund.
Now this blog post says that the second wave won’t start until end of November.
Do you see the garbage fire here? Do you see how they are withholding information to a point where you can call it lying?
I’m way beyond the point where I’m complaining about a half year of delay. I’m complaining because after I finally got to complete my order and was told I would get my tablet within 2 weeks, they just weren’t able to deliver and they didn’t even care to inform me about that. If you complete an order and you get an official mail claiming that the device will ship within 10 days – but then doesn’t – without any kind of information, what would you think?
Also, in the same week the crowdfunding campaign started, they released the news that Jolla collected over 40 million bucks in VC money. Also, this isn’t their rodeo, so the phone being late doesn’t count as apology. On the contrary, it means that they should already know that and set more realistic timelines.
Simple truth is that Jolla failed their backers pretty hard. The worst thing about it is the communication. They sparely update us, they don’t really explain and the always come with new deadlines that they can’t hold.
Well your case seems to be a nasty one on top! I don’t know if they are really that unable to cope with customer communication. There really is something wrong with how they handle things here 🙁
I’m with the same situation as Turbinenreiter. I’m in Wave 2, as I received an invitation email on Oct 14 and I ordered it straightaway. I was also promised by Jolla that the packing and delivery would usually take up to 10 days. And I have also received no update from Jolla on any delivery delays until I proactively opened a zendesk ticket to ask them.
I even offered help by telling them that I’m from HK and I can just go to the warehouse to take the tablet knowing that it’s shipping from HK, if delivery is the bottleneck. However the service desk people just told me it will be shipped within this week (and now it’s Thursday and I’m seeing this blog post ~_~)
I do think Jolla need more marketing communication experts to set the right expectations to contributors and customers. Being a startup is not an excuse for withholding information. Please stick to the core value of Transparency that your company defines.
A few weeks back in BarCamp Hong Kong I was using the stories of Jolla Tablet and TOHKBD to talk about the lessons learnt from crowdfunding campaigns. It seems that Jolla has still not figured out how to remedy the impact yet. Here are the slides of my talk: http://www.slideshare.net/amandalam/crowdfunding-lessons-learnt-from-jolla-tablet-tohkbd
Please for the love of God do not exchange words with @ossi1967 this guy as being like this since day defending Jolla and he will continue to do so until the bitter end. A wiseman once told me that to every Nonsense there is a Sense but that doesn’t apply to this guy please value you words and use them for better communicating with people who are making sense out of Nonsense.
@Turbinenreiter: I’m in the same boat you’re in. Ordered, paid taxes, haven’t received tablet so far. Bad.
However, I really can’t imagine what kind of “communication” you could possible expect to improve the situation. Communication so far has been good enough so we knew what was going on. You won’t be satisfied until you received either a refund or a tablet. That’s what it’s all about. Blaming “communication” is nonsensical here.
I am sure that is how it looks in that rose-colored JollaLand you seem to live in. You know that place where everything in and about Jolla is wonderful and amazing.
UI may have been award-winning (what award and where?) and different two years ago but not much has changed – at least for the better – since then. Two years is quite a long time.
+1
What is wrong with you? Do you work for Jolla or?
I can tell you what is wrong with him….nothing. Because this guy will eat, drink, sleep and even preferred to die defending Jolla to him we are all angry for nothing. To him everyone who is angry lacks the ability to reason, to him we are all wrong and Jolla right, to him we are all bunch of stupid fools and he is smarter and has all the ability to reason, to him Jolla is and will always be right and so I say he has lost his sense of emotion because anyone with emotions will feel aggrieve with the way Jolla has treated its backer but for this guy all that is normal.
WTF? aptoide? Where is info about delaying? How many tablets produced? What about Russia? STOP PUBLISHING BULLSHIT, please.
+1
+1
Including an appstore with fakeapps sounds really safe.
Inb4 Jolla Table 0-day?
Thank you for this update! It is good to hear that there is still an effort being made to produce the tablets. 🙂 And yeah, I agree with the policy to avoid providing hard production dates when you’ve got so many problems getting any production at all.
First, though, you’ve only implied that “wave 3” will slip. Please do state this clearly: that wave 3 is no longer likely to ship in December (if that is indeed the case).
Second: You’ve stated that there are various factors involved in the delay of wave 2 and the rescheduling of wave 3. By this point, is there any reason why you would need to keep these factors secret?
+1 This, you’re showing both some support and suggesting great improvements. I hope you’ll get replied on both of your inquiries.
The basic thing here is that Jolla is not lying or stealing our money. External factors, what are those? Factory owners demanding more money for production than was agreed earlier with Jolla (worst case scenario) or no time for a small company in production line? Subcontractors not able to deliver their hardware in supposed time? Authorities generating unexpected problems?
If even one of these is true, there’s no option telling it to the public. Hence “external factors”.
+1- thanks for the update, though I’m curious what’s causing the delays.
Okay guys, NOW I am feeling REALLY offended.
You should know that your customers are, so to say, “above average” intellect-wise. It is stupid and 100% useless to try and feed us with this marketing babbling. We are not your average Apple/Google sheeple.
And since you posted this pile of bullsh*t anyway – instead of explaining the actual problems and telling the truth like you promised to do – it means that YOU think that I am just a mindless drone which can be kept calm with this crap for as long as it is needed.
As an EE and head of a small hardware development department I know very well just how much problems can arise that can ruin even a well-planned schedule, and I have been awfully forgiving about you slipping your own deadlines again and again. But this post crosses my bullsh*t threshold.
+1
Jolla has released this post prior to Antti Saarnio tomorrow presentation in SLUSH trying to soften us, but as in their earlier posts they don´t kick the ball! Anybody attending SLUSH?
Hello, again and again delays when we will get the tablet. No more waiting for me.
Please send to all users info how we will get back (refund) ours money.
I was think that Jolla is serious company, that think about “sailors” but they don’t.
I wish to you all the best but without me.
Best regards Marko
Thanks for the update. Any news on when the 32G model will ship for group1 ?
Awesome, can’t wait to get another non update a month from now confirming no tablets being shipped until 2016.
I’ve been pretty patient up to this point, but I share the sentiment that the lack of communication has soured me to the Jolla brand, I really hope I can get a refund for my contribution.
If you’re talking about aptoide store, I’d be very happy if jolla.aptoide.com did not contain apps incopatible with jolla phone. Lots of apps there require google services and crashes without them.
Hello Juhani. You’ve personally emphasized to me, on a video interview, how the “WHY” is the most important part in your marketing. Unfortunately this post doesn’t follow that at all. Hence, I’d like to ask:
1. Why this information was posted so late?
2. “still a start-up” leaves your readers only guessing: out of influence in the production lines? out of money for components? lack of personnel in handling?
3. “now it is time for a new update” Why is it now? Because Jolla will talk at Slush 2015 tomorrow, and you don’t want people to ask about it right then? Because you received enough of questions about it?
4. Why can’t you share how many are in the 2nd wave?
I’d also like to point out one great comment by copernicus above, it’s sure worth a reply too. After all, thanks for delivering an update!
I contributed to this crowd-funding campaign, because I want *this* tablet. And I am also willing to wait for it, as long as it takes. Half a year late is still within reason for a product that basically didn’t exist a year ago, from my perspective.
Everyone who thought they were *buying* it should reflect on what page they were on when they pledged their money. If you just want *a* tablet, I recommend Amazon instead of Indiegogo.
@raven24: Exactly. It’s really hard to understand some of the comments here unless you assume that the people who wrote them just wanted some cheap tablet with decent specs and didn’t care at all about the rest. They would have been far better off with just any existing product from any online shop you name… Now they know.
For the N-th time: not all people pledged for the tablet through IGG, a lot of them made a legitimate order trough Jolla’s online shop. Those people had NO reason whatsoever to expect that the tablet they are paying for is not an “existing product from any online shop”.
What legitimate order? You’ve only been able to PRE-ORDER from the shop! It’s ridiculous how crowd-funding contributions and pre-orders turn into “legitimate orders” in peoples’ heads.
I pre-ordered a Jolla Tablet, through the Jolla website. I was not involved with the IGG. The e-mail that I got from Jolla in August when I placed my pre-order says:
“We’ve successfully received your pre-order and will keep you updated on delivery times. We aim to start shipping the Jolla Tablet in the end of October. We will notify you by email once the parcel is dispatched.”
I have received no updates since then. I was not notified by email that the parcel was dispatched. Jolla has failed to meet the commitments that they made.
If I pre-ordered an item from, say, Amazon or Apple, they would not have charged my credit card until the item was shipped, but Jolla has.
Let me repeat. I am not part of the IGG crowdfunding campaign receiving a perk for contributing to the campaign; I placed a pre-order for a product from Jolla. Jolla can continue to call it a pre-order all they want and you can talk about pre-orders turning into legitimate orders all you want, but as soon as they took my money, it stopped being a pre-order.
Under EU consumer protection laws, Jolla has to deliver under the original terms of the contract (the pre-order confirmation in this case), or provide new delivery dates and give me the option to cancel and get a refund.
I was perfectly willing to wait (and was expecting to wait) until next year to get my Tablet. However, after reading the comments from the people who didn’t get their Tablets after receiving 10-day ship notices, I have pretty much lost faith that Jolla will be able to deliver my Tablet in the 1st quarter of next year and am considering canceling my pre-order and looking for an Android tablet to port Sailfish OS to myself.
Jolla touts its openness, but they have been far from open in delivering the Tablet and had soured my opinion of what the brand represents.
I don’t get why you are so apologetic to a company that ripped you off.
You are also completely forgetting about the pre-orders they took.
@ossi1967: I suppose most of us crowdfunded Jolla Tablet because we want “this tablet with this OS”, we are not Amazon quick buyers looking for a cheap tablet. Also most of us understand and accept delays in a tech venture like this, but most of us don´t understand this very UNCLEAR situation and Jolla´s erratic communication behavior.
I don´t agree with @Copernicus, I think we need hard production dates, who and how many are in each wave and reasons for the delays. Crowfunding Jolla makes us a sort of partner that has a right to ask for transparency.
@HPTouchPad: When you write “I think we need hard production dates” you assume that Jolla is in control, knows these dates (and always knew) and for some esoteric reason decided to keep them secret. There’s no reason to believe this. Jolla doesn’t know, and that’s why we’re in the situation we’re in.
They could in theory at least try to provide their best guesses as two who is using up the production capacity so we can vent our anger elsewhere. Not that it made things any better or could be considered acceptable as a business practice 😉
absolutely agree!
+1 thanks for this 🙂
What about shipping to Russian Federation?
Also it will be nice if you include free case/screen protector as an excuse for veeeeeryyyy late shipping.
PS I suggest to take a look at Bragi team and their Dash, they also delayed shipping for one year but at least everybody knows what was happeing.
We want a full refund!
Without Delay, without Difficulties, without Lies!
A full refund!
We do not want to deal with Jolla!
I agree !!! We do not want to deal with Jolla…
Jolla please immediately inform us how you refund all money back.
Lol, later we will see blog post like this:
“We are working hard, and yours refund will be in 3 waves”. And delaying ….. deeeeelayyyying
😀 … sorry, but he made me laugh … that was a good one !
+1
Speak only for yourself, thanks.
we are speaking for ourselves. If you want to wait for Godot, fine. We had enough. Either deliver tablets in by the end of November or fist week in December, or give us full refund. Your choice.
I’m not happy with Jolla’s runaway-dates or their communication. Who could be when the situation is this? But I’m still waiting. Bacause I really want that device. As simple as that.
Same here. I still really want my Jolla Tablet. I’m just frustrated at the non-communicative stance that Jolla HQ is taking.
Any word about those of us who joined at the Pre-Order campaign phase a few months ago?
Will they be part of Wave 3, or is there a Wave 4 for those people.
Really sorry Jolla, but am looking forward to the refund details… It’s been a year now, and as I needed a tab now, I just got something else… Maybe next time 😉
But full refunds. Tablet + shipment so in my case 269$
@JuhaniLassila It’s okay to tell your contributors the hard truth, please, try it!
There is nothing wrong in saying “wave number two will be also small, about 200 tablets” or “wave number three will start after the New Year and will span the first half of 2016”.
There is nothing difficult in saying “Russian contributors will receive the tablet after everyone else” (though we’ll be furious, of course, but then maybe we’ll agree to live with that, if there’ll also be a “because …, … & …” part).
That’s what we are opening the Jolla twitter feed and blog daily for.
All what you say is absolutely correct and logical, but it was said a lot of times before with zero effect.
As time passes by, I get a feeling that Jolla developers who are forced to write yet another humiliating post like this one (I wonder if they draw straws?) have no idea about what’s going on themselves and just pull something off the top of their heads.
Here one comment from someone who was in the 1st wave, I totaly understand that you are upset, but on the other side the SW was at least until 2.0 in a state that the tablet was close to not usable. Shutdowns without the possibility to turn it on, you had to wait and then to press the power-button for a long while so it would turn on. I was already very upset about this. In addition the battery life was bad. I hope this has improved, I hadn’t enough time to check this.
But even now there are not so many apps within the Jolla Ocean. You have to use android apps a lot and then you suffer with Google play services have stopped, app has stopped, …
So this tablet is still not in a shape that I would rate as to use productive. It is a nice Toy to play around, but i would rate it overall as early Beta.
Also the hardware quality is not in a state that I would rate it as good, so better wait until they hopefully fix this. My tablet has sharp edges which make working with it a bit unconfortable.
If you are lucky you are in Wave 3 where hopefully a lot of the current issues are fixed.
Here I also have to say as someone who was working at Nokia in AMS together with R&D that Jolla would have a lot of opportunities to improve this now, that we would have liked at that time but they are missing them. They could raise polls to check what are the issues the users painpoints. I haven’t seen any until now.
Thanks sorry to hear things aren’t great.
But its nice to have some “real” info at last!
If Jolla were to come here and explain that
1. There are QC issues with the hardware, and
2. the O/S isn’t finished
3. any other problems
We’d all be a bit disappointed, but have to accept it.
Thanks for the update! 🙂
I think many of the previous commenters have to keep in mind, that Jolla is just a very small company.
I guess that the required production capacity is being used by much bigger companies for Christmas sales at the moment and that Jolla with its tablet has only low priority.
Our unlimited support is the only thing that keeps Jolla as a company alive.
Well then Jolla could tell us. Maybe someone just by chance is sitting in the right spot in this world to flip a switch and disturb the capacity need for the bigger fish in the sea 😛 Not that I wish that to happen *cough*
If our unlimited support is keeping them going, then Jolla should realise that and communicate accordingly.
I’m a supporter since May 2013 with The First One edition phone and also the tablet + Lastucase on order. I don’t care so much about the delay (don’t really need another tablet anyway), but I do think the communication is very poor: too little and too late.
“This can be attributed to various factors and simply the fact that we are still a start-up. We are pushing to start wave 2 shipments a couple of weeks late, i.e., by the end of November.”
Please detail these, granularity and details give us more of a feel for the problems and issues you face – currently it sounds like an excuse. And pleading “we are a start-up” makes it even less convincing.
Don’t get me wrong – I want to see all this succeed, have the phone, backed the tablet.
But as with everyone else my frustration is growing.
+1
@ossi1967: OK. They don´t have control of the production lines, they have all the components for the 10,000 tablets?
If Jolla shares with their supporters the problems they are facing we would have more empathy with them, if we receive a personal mail apologizing for the delay and confirming our order status will also avoid the growing frustration. I am not a communication expert, but they have to do something different.
PD: Sorry for my english. Regards from Peru
@HPTouchPad They shared all this information in this blog, otherwise i wouldn’t know.
All good an well. But, dear head of communications: I lack information on which wave I’m in. And could you give weekly updates from now on. Plus some internal infos of how you handle this crisis. And I want a candy bar of some sort!
Well, like a large number of the IGG contributors who paid up during Nov 2014 for the tablet and haven’t got the thing, it looks like we’re going to wait a year for the device.
“We will get there! Sail on!” said the last email I got from Jolla. Personally it looks like the project has sank without trace and if I was the head of communications for Jolla I would be looking for another job.
It’s probably impossible now to rename my user as “UnHappycheesecake”. Or “VeryBloodyUnhappycheesecake”. Or even “IWantMyMoneyBackCheesecake” .
> if I was the head of communications for Jolla I would be looking for another job.
But not in the communications field…
…. well it boils down to at least a statement. I will not comment about the quality and lacking of clarifications. At least a bit of communication.
If you continue not to sincerely care about well-timed, crucially relevant communications, you’ll may find yourself quickly in a position where your community will be just turning their backs.
Hope it was clear & helpful.
Lot of us already has turned against Jolla due to their dishonesty. The best part in this story is: “We are looking for a way for a refund”… What? You don’t have bank account on which you received money and list of contributors? Another lie?
Maybe they are short on funds…
You really think that this is my problem? I don’t care. They can take a bank loan and sue whoever made this shit. For losing money and supporters. They didn’t deliver what they’ve promised, so there is no excuse for full money refund…
JollaHQ on Twitter today: “details for the refund option will be made available in upcoming updates. Kindly stay tuned at https://blog.jolla.com“
BAD omen. If instead of promising to explain the situation with manufacturing, they decided to start refunding, it means that they themselves don’t believe that they’ll make it.
One more: dear HOC, your picture does imply you’re quite clueless. Not cool at all.
Hello Jolla! Yes you are late and yes it sucks, but you are not exactly a big company and it is not easy doing what you do with such limited resources. So I wish you all the best and I’m waiting for the tablet a little longer. It would be good to know about possible phones with Sailfish for 2016… I guess many people are looking to new hardware and having some perspective would be good. BTW great job with Sailfish 2.0.
… if you want to praise the good job of SFOS 2.0 ( which I generally agree upon ) you’re a bit off here – you might wanted to do it there :
https://blog.jolla.com/sailfish-os-2-0-saimaa/
Just set my deadline at Christmas. If no tablets appears in my Hand before that no more jolla for me ever. Will also create a world wide antijolla campaign. An to top it all off. Get me a brand new IPhone.
#64GBexclusivelyforall.
… not to reward 32GB-backers but to simplify production batches for you. I’m a 64GB-early-bird-investor willing to accept the trade-off in exchange to see chances for a 2015 delivery.
________________________________
Btw “we are still a start-up” was acceptable by August – but not after a captain’s statement. He must know – not guess.
exactly. Your CEO gave statement. Doesn’t this worth anything to you?
Thanks for the update.
I am pretty sure that they are as pissed as we are (could be more!). Do you think they are happy about this?!
Fair enough to complain and to ask for more info though.
I already paid the tax and I am not that happy to wait, but this does not help to spend too much time and energy to complain. I am still trusting them to do as much as they can.
About details not provided, I can see two reasons: 1/ they do not know enough
2/ but I think it is also because they are not authorised to talk much…
Anyway sail on
Honestly, I can understand some delay in informing us continually I do not mind waiting.
But my patience has a limit and illusion.
I wonder how to recover “all” my money.
That includes tablet, cover costs and expenses, plus the memory upgrade.
Never again will collaborate on a crossfounding.
I am happy to wait for my tablet. Shame on you that cannot wait for yours. You will never get the chance to participate in anything similar again. Unless the rest of the world catches on and understands that we need open and secure platforms also in tablets and phones, not only in servers, supercomputers, embedded systems, network equipment and so on, wherever in billions of devices where linux is used. Unfortunately Android turned out to be another closed sandbox, riddled with security issues. Currently Sailphish is one of the best platforms for mobile. People, don’t you get it, it is crowdfunding, try to build your own tablet if you can.
-1
Wait if it makes you happy.
hmpf… 🙁
Thanks for the update. November or December OK.
Still very disappointed in the lack if concrete details. I would hope that Jolla could tell us what our contributor sequence number is and what the worst case cutoffs for wave distrubtions are (i.e. You are contributor #6410. Wave 1 is 1-1000, Wave 2 is 1001 – 6300, Wave 3 is 6301 – 10000. Ergo you are in wave 3 at worst, but could be in wave 2 if ~120 people from wave 2 don’t finalize in time). Give better ideas as to when the waves are going to depart the dock (keeping with the sailing metaphor). Have “weekly” wave status updates published here so that the sailors can see delays early and “make minor course corrections” to their expectations for when they are going to recieve their tablet in hand rather than radical corrections when updates take a month to be recieved.
+1
I think this is what all frustrated people here is demanding.
I still don’t understand what makes so difficult giving a bit of transparency, also, perhaps, that they cannot calculate those numbers because …… (jolla to fill the blanks)
Or that they cannot deliver because the shipping company has been ……. (attacked by Somalian pirates? )
Too little, too late. Please improve communicative efforts to keep the community with you.
Target was to start shipping early November. You, or actually the Captain, could have sent this message two weeks ago when it became clear the target was unrealistic.
Thanks for the update, but the disappointment is getting bigger and bigger. And I’m not even upset about the delay – it would be weird to participate in an indigogo-campaign without delays. But the communication to us supporters… man o man…!
Why do we only get news unless the pressure is too high to avoid them? I don’t even know what wave I’m in, even though I belong to the “early birds”. We don’t always need long and detailed blog posts, but at least some regular updates – doesn’t matter if its good news or bad news. You can’t publish a delivery schedule and then just remain totally silent, nope, doesn’t work this way.
It’s also clear that you can’t, and especially as a small player probably aren’t allowed, to share all the difficulties you are facing. The contracts you had to sign as a small company, in order to make this tablet reality, may not give you much space for communication. But just don’t go silent! While those delays are certainly easy to understand for you Jolla employees, we supporters don’t have those insights.
I’ve been a Jolla fan since day one and certainly will stay one. But this communication-misery is not only bad publicity, but will also worsen the relationship between Jolla and customers. I don’t really want to come to this blog and complain around, but I’m worried about the good name of Jolla when I see and observe what’s going on and how your supporters start to lose patience.
So please, take our worries serious, sit together and find a better way to talk to us. We put a lot of trust into you and your product, so please show some of that back. Don’t feed us with Apple-like “that’s-how-it-is-and-that’s-what-you-get” updates, but with honest, regular answers.
I have no doubts in your products, your people and your company and sincerely wish all the best.
“It’s also clear that you can’t, and especially as a small player probably aren’t allowed, to share all the difficulties you are facing.”
No!
If I pay at a crowd-funding campaign, I’m a (one of many) “backer”/”founder” and as that I require to know what is happening with my money.
If I’m a simple customer, I don’t have to know anything about the company or what are they doing. But If I don’t get the product, I can get refund or can get help form consumer protection etc…
But in this case I’m a customer when I can’t get any information about the tablet/company, and I’m a backer when I want something for my money…
A tablet with open source OS, and made by a small, privacy-aware(such term exists?) company, openness, people powered, etc. It was inviting;
BUT, the OS is not (fully) open source and uses android drivers, the simple, but unfulfilled hardware feature requests, and we do not know anything about the tablets…
With these it is nearly the same, as if I buy a random android tablet.
For those who questioned my comments above about the ambiguity of communication.
I am a loyal backer and user since the first NIT released. I have been waiting very patiently for this along with you folks.
Statements like “the end of November” are pathetically soft. Setting soft deadlines allows folks to weasel in and out of it.
If I tell you that you owe me about 100 dollars for a $100 item and you send me a check for ninety, I should only blame myself. The clear and concise dates and numbers allow us to hold each other accountable.
This my main complaint. Communicate clearly. Tell me there will be an update every two weeks and stick to it. I do not care if it is an “I have no news” update every two weeks, at least it is there. Sporadically treating us mushrooms (keep us in the dark and feed us sh*t) should not be acceptable on any count.
I do not need a hard ship date. I do not need a hard date as to when my crowd-funded investment will bear fruit. I merely want someone to not beat around the bush.
I get that these folks are in a bad spot, so they literally cannot win by communicating. What some folks fail to see is that they did this to themselves. They painted themselves into this corner.
Sorry dude, but @ossi1967 sees right through you, all your complaints about communication are just “red herrings”.
Guys, we all expected this. They weren’t magically going to show up one day and say “We found the magic problem and fixed it. 10,000 tablets shipping today.”
The solution is simple: vote with your wallet. When they offer a refund option, use it. If they don’t offer one before your tablet ships, exercise their return policy and send it back for a refund.
Show them financially, that this kind of behaviour is simply not acceptable for any company to engage in, regardless of size. They have experience doing this before with the phone, so to somehow claim this is different and grants them an exception to communicating regularly is ridiculous and should be treated as such.
If you really can’t wait, there’s a few hours left in 11.11, and AliExpress has great deals on tablets. You can always port Sailfish to a tablet!
I agree totally
I just don’t get the insane tone in these comments. It was a kickstarter thing! Has noone here done that shit before?
I have received my tablet and it’s fantastic, but even if I hadn’t I wouldn’t act like a sour fucking manchild crybaby as most of the people here are.
yes, you would. Why else are you here complaining 😉
It’s about the lack of transparency.
Most of us were very involved, but we are now treated as silly Iphone dollies.
Thát’s what make people angry.
When the kickstarter was proposed, the specs made this a cutting edge tablet/prospect. With the advance of specs/hardware this has gone from cutting edge to leading the pack to middle of the road. Some of us gave Jolla their money over a year ago and have nothing but these repeated timeline slips, going away for several weeks at a time with no feedback or updates, optimistic status updates only to come back during the next post announcing that the previous status update was woefully incorrect repeatedly.
> even if I hadn’t I wouldn’t act like a sour fucking manchild crybaby as most of the people here are
Oh, OF COURSE you would. (And yeah, with every new comment you seem more and more of a smelly troll enjoying other people’s misfortune).
This isn’t true.
Specifically, I am currently also backing the Dash and the Earin headphones on KS. They are both super late, and with the Jolla I was a really early backer, but on those I am almost last in, so I will seriously get the gear suuuuuuuper late.
But I don’t feel the need to vent spleen on their pages. Tons of people do. I think it’s just a reflection of the kind of person you are, to act like a fucking sour prick because you can. You want to be angry and feel vindicated in your righteous anger.
I don’t see the benefit of that, these companies are tiny, they are little start-ups, they are also all dealing with remote manufacturing and issues about delivery and components and all that shit. IMHO, they need a pat on the back and some encouragement, not an echo-chamber of whiney complaints.
How many people even work for Jolla? Less than 50? And they can put out an OS that is superior to anything from Google or Apple, and hardware that is on par with them? They deserve fucking medals.
+1 yay for some sane comments once in a while 🙂
Many, including myself, are not complaining about the delay. We do complain about the lack of communication. I backed Pebble and just got update no. 30(!) last week. Jolla sent perhaps half that amount in double the time. They don’t even sent it to backers by e-mail, but instead just dump a blogpost. Also, they set some deadline for shipments and remain quiet for weeks after the deadline passes. After a Twitter sh!tstorm they finally come up with another soft deadline. And this process was repeated several times.
IMO Juhani should simply give a weekly update: where are we in the process, what’s new, new software items, other news. Keep us informed an involved!
I really didn’t appreciate Antti Saarnio’s apology at all. It came across as insincere (Did he even write it himself?), and too many references to being ‘at the helm’ or ‘the captain’. Sounded more like ego-boosting to me. If you are the CEO, show your leadership in a time of crisis.
Ti be absolutely clear about my intentions: for now, I’m not interested in refunds at all. I want the tablet to materialise and I really want Jolla to succeed as a company and Sailfish to succeed as an OS.
They have 150 developers. They also have raised over 40 million bucks in VC money when they started the crowdfunding campaign. They are not that innocent little start-up who don’t know what’s up in the world. It’s not even their first crowdfunding campaign.
The reason I’m sour is because Jolla missed each deadline they set themselves and never were able to communicate that beforehand. They didn’t say the second wave will be late before it was supposed to happen, but after.
Also, I was in that second wave. On October 14th I finished my order, paying another 40€. Their official mail told me that the tablet will ship within 10 business days. They missed that window and did not inform me. The support ticket I opened was answered with no real information, and frankly what little they said does not really go together with the above blog post. They are withholding information to a point where it can be called lying.
Seriously, from my point of view, the interactions I had so far, I have to consider the whole thing as fraud.
Thing is, they would have gotten their pat on the back if they had been honest to us. If they had informed us about slipping timelines BEFORE they missed the dates, things would be different. I backed another crowdfunding campaign, they also are behind schedule, but we got updates BEFORE they missed deadlines, and we got updates that actually explained what was going on. Nobody there is sour.
Next thing is that people don’t feel like Jolla is even committed to deliver the tablet. The CEO who sold it to us jumped ship. They split the company in a software and hardware part, which just reeks of forming a ‘bad company’, enabling them let the hardware part go bankrupt without affecting the software house. We keep hearing success stories of how they licensed their OS to others, and how that is their real game, not making hardware.
I guess that’s why people are pissed. In this whole campaign Jolla only seemed enthusiastic about the tablet when they took our money.
+1
I could not have written better than that.
+1
Very well written indeed !
@Beethoven
I’m happy you’re happy with Jolla.
In case you haven’t noticed a large, and increasing number of people aren’t.
Are we all “…fucking sour prick”(s) because we chose to express our concerns here?
Personally I’m not all that angry. Very irritated, disappointed, bored, pissed off – yes I’ll admit to most of those, but not “angry”.
I believe in the ideals with which they launched the Indiegogo campaign. I was expecting that they do too.
Please don’t re-hash that Small company\start-up shtick.
Unless Jolla get their act together and start to treat their Customers\Contributors\Supporters with a bit of respect, they’ll get a lot smaller, very quickly: and disappear altogether..
I don’t want that to happen. I want them to deliver on the original promise. I don’t really care if I never get the damned Tablet.
As a contrast to this experience, I just bought a Surface 4.
“Evil” MS are a LOT better to deal with than cuddly indie Jolla, especially when things go wrong. They’ve got this weird policy: they tell the truth, and try to HELP….
what a f*** hypocrite you are. You got yours so now you are lecturing us all. GTFO.
I’m backing plenty of other KS/IGG projects that are also, as they all are, late, and I don’t mind with them either. It’s part of the deal, they oversell, you find the product interesting, you back, if you get a product it’s cool.
I mean, there are plenty of projects that 100% fell through, and we’re not there with the Jolla tablet.
If you think that the way Jolla behaves is a proper way to treat their investors, than you either lie about backing other crowdfunded projects or simply don’t care whom you give your money.
I guess you gladly pledged campaigns like Healbe, TellSpec, KREYOS, Smarty Ring, Scribble and so on, and “didn’t mind with them either”, because hey, “it’s part of the deal, they oversell, you find the product interesting, you back, if you get a product it’s cool”. Chances are that you are simply stupid, but since I strive to see good in people, I’ll assume that you just have so much money that you don’t even care where they go. In this case, again, I’m happy for you.
you know the expression: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice… Jolla has fooled us 5 times now, so it is our right for asking either to deliver tablets by the end of November or first week of December or return us money – full refund.
Hey Beethoven, not everyone here contributed to the crowdfunding campaign to get their Tablet. Some of us pre-ordered a product from an e-shop. I guess when you order stuff from other places, it is OK with you if they are months late delivering it, right?
I joined the crowd sourcing campaign for the Jolla tablet for the same reason as ordering the original Jolla phone (at a very early stage) That reason is plain and simple that I want to support Jolla as a company and wish they to succeed! The fringe benefit is that I get to have a cool/unique phone and tablet. For me a win-win situation. Naturally having to wait a bit is a tad disappointing but I’ll survive 🙂
I like your positive thinking! Even though I have my complains, I look forward to that unique device as well. The good news will certainly come sooner or later 🙂
The Jolla blog seems to be nothing more than malicous fraud!
If there there is no full refund you deserve a class action…
+1
Why? Crowdfunding is not the sane as buying. There is a risk the product will not materialise and that you lose money.
It’s different for the pre orders through the Jolla Shop.
Please DON’T…! they raise 480% of they requirements, so you can’t say that they could not have done better. If they had issues with component suppliers, they’ve could find someone else (at least this is not problem in China where everything is basically made). Also, they bragged about creating new company, going to all kind of events, doing marketing job using that money, making new deals with other hw manufacturers all by using that money, so please stop BS people. They had enough money, time and resources. There are no excuses.
Listen, I’m not at all happy with the way things are going. As you can read above, I’m highly critical of how this crowdfunding campaign was handled, and agree with everything you wrote in your reply.
However, that still doesn’t mean that there’s ground for a lawsuit. I also doubt it’s a ‘malicious fraud’. Just a lot of stuff that went really bad. It’s clear by now that there’s a crisis in the leadership of Jolla: first Marc Dillon gets the boot. Now Antti Saarnio starts his new initiative (sounds to me like he’s moved out of the way). In a VC-funded company, this sort of stuff usually points to the investors not being happy with the way things are going. So, obviously all kinds of operational targets have not been met. And I doubt if the investors share the original values of Jolla (openness and doing it together). They might even be looking out to sell the company to a major player in order to salvage some money (like LG buying WebOS to put in their smart TV’s, or Samsung picking up Tizen).
As to the pre-order clients: they have a different case. They pre-ordered and were given a timeline of October-November delivery. I’m pretty sure they can already legally claim a refund.
Forget Indiegogo Crowdfunding. Jolla promised xtimes a delivery on their Business Website and they failed. That’s enough to file suit for refund.
And they know it! They only play for time,… there are no batches, no waves, that’s all fake. Bang goes the Money!
11/27/2015 I watched online for presale Jolla phone. I really wanted to go to Finland, but my visa was expired. I got my Jolla in February. It was a young operating system, but I loved it. Although i was agree on a beta version.
When was announced jolla tablet, those who invested in crowdfunding campaign, agreed to your tablet specifications. We agreed on a weak battery that you are replace, we have agreed on the first screen that you changed three times. For what it’s all about?
We need the tablet, in which we have invested money. And when you promised – may.
sorry, i mean 27.11.13
I’m sorry — I was genuinely interested in a new OS for tablets but for a device that was not technically advanced component-wise at the time of the campaign and is lagging further by the month the prospects are not good.
At first I thought you got caught up in mission creep with port changes, memory upgrades, display issues.
If you are to be a software company perhaps a better model is to make sailfish work on a platform like a Nexus 7 and build the base from there.
Me I’m out — when the refund program launches I’m joining. You presented what appeared to be a late beta product. I’ve been crowd funding tech products for more than 3 years and this is compares with the other no-shows.
From a pure user perspective, just over a year ago my Nexus 7 got Lollipop and died. The project timelines looked like something I could live with. 51 weeks later (a year in common speak) the other platforms have iterated.
Yes you are a start-up but you are also building on the Maemo, Meego base, this is not terra incognito.
I’m not angry, I’m disappointed. I’d hoped your backgrounds, the fact that you’d built phones meant that these issues were known quantities; that you knew everything you needed to do to make contract build work.
Now you deliver a fraction and there’s a problem getting the major build on time. You announce that you are no longer going to be a hardware company after the Jolla.
It may be, I hope it is, brilliant. Me today need a tool.
Sorry – I’m out.
“simply the fact that we are still a start-up.”
rly? okay that will excuse all. sorry that we did not recognise it. pls take more of my money.
for the german sailors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k25wI_TiYuU
Hello,
I would like back my money witch I was pay for Jolla tablet. Please let me know what is the process for the return of my money back on my account.
Unfortunately, I do not believe more and even have no more interest to support the company Jolla, since delay after delay means that you are not honest with their supporters.
Poor communication and delays after delays led to the fact that I am disappointed in you, and I no longer want to have Sailfish OS and your products. I do not want to support companies that do not respect the property of our customers.
Please for detailed instructions how to get my money . In case If you missed my question I will inform the European Commission for the protection of the consumer and demanded money back with interest.
This is no longer a joke… Im consumer and I have right to get my money back to my account.
To the regular Jolla advocates who are saying that 1) this is funding, not buying, 2) most likely Jolla isn’t making money out of this and 3) communication is sufficient…
Yes, 1) and 2) are true, but 3) definitely isn’t.
The way I see it, making money was never the goal. The goal was to develop a proof-of-concept device (at a loss) to demonstrate that the OS can power a tablet, and to demonstrate that it can run on Intel besides ARM.
So, yes, we are not consumers entitled to a device. We are Jolla’s partners supporting the company by reducing the cost and risk of a part PR, part R&D project.
Being partners, we deserve more than regular consumers, not less.
Do you think that a single investor who invested the money we collectively invested would accept being treated like this? Such an investor would demand and receive detailed and frequent updates with action items, progress reports, etc. Just because we are many and not a single person or company, why should we be treated any different?
And the fact that we will receive devices if the project succeeds doesn’t change a thing. We will get a tablet at a price under the production cost but not under the market price. Besides, by giving us these devices they get free advertising.
So yes, it’s not about the delays, it’s about the the communication being way below what partners of the company deserve.
Forgot the most important motivation for the tablet – to demonstrate that there is demand for devices powered by SailfishOS…
Since there are so many negative comments I feel I have to drop something here. Thank you for writing anything once a month or so! I understand you can’t write much more than “we’re alive” but that’s good enough.
I still after all this time see no good alternative to Jolla. Platforms that are based on selling my information to the highest bidder do not need apply. Of course I’d rather have the tablet in my hand just as much as the next guy, but I realise the difference between a crowdfunding campaign and buying things off the shelf.
Hope the second wave is a big one and that you have smoother sailing onwards. Keep up the good work!
Since I am waiting for a year I will wait some more time. It seems not right to me to request the refund after so long time. When I get the tablet (hopefully) I will find a way to install some other OS on it and then I don’t want to hear from Jolla ever again.
I supported also some other projects and they also had a delay, but they have communicated it to the backers with providing exact information what are they doing and why the delays occurred and there was no hard feelings there.
You’d be better off selling it and buying a tablet with whatever OS you’d prefer on it.
Seems silly to waste a perfectly good Sailfish tablet by running another operating system on it.
If I wait a bit more, I may use it as a plate for cutting cheese for what it’s worth
All this update has done is.
Pour fuel on the fire and give a fresh page to vent on!!!
Strike 3 for your customer relations department 🙁
meh…
Dear Jolla, please response to your blog comments, or remove the comment option totally. Blogs with comments enabled are (generally) for discussing also with the blog authors. Silence is not golden in this case.
probably this is the reason why Marc Dillon jumped of the ship from Jolla. He knew that shit will hit the fan, so he abandoned company before it starts.
How probable is that? Do you have information about it?
no but time line is more than perfect. he left by the end of june, and next month it all started…
I received my refund yesterday via Paypal. I paid by credit card last February. I know that I probably will not get my tablet until the Spring which is too long to wait. I am thankful for a refund.
Hello!
Could you please share details, e.g. how much did you pay and how much of that did you get back? Thank you!
Tell us how to do it!
– What reasons were presented for refund?
More details please your experience to help us all..
The main pb for jolla except loosing traction with the communiste, is that few of us are working for mnos. I remember to have met the vp marketing of jolla at mwc 2015 and having play around with Tablet, and getting bols promise that it will be in full production by the summer.
The fact is by missing deadline one after one (and after 3 Years you are not anymore a Start up) you loose also credibility for your sales channels.
Nokia did the same in the past, missing deadlines and saying to their channels we are late full stop. The Nokia arrogance was well known at the time, and it was one of the reason, if not the main, of their fall from that market. Unfortunatly we Can see that Nokia roots are really deep here.
Jolla was a nice story, but i am afraid that you are falling appart. I am sad. I hope sincerely that you Will be able to survive, but the chances are vert thin …
Read community and not “communiste”. For the typo, thanks to Windows RT dictionnary
So, now the excuse is “we’re still a start-up”? What about the Jolla Phone that’s been out for 2 years now?!
Please, Jolla, be honest and don’t try to bullshit us. We just want to know what the hold up is, this time.
Hardware development is difficult. I’ve seen that in many other kickstarter/indiegogo projects, so delays are nothing new for me. But what is new is this non-committal from the project itself, the bullshit reasons for delays.
Just tell us “we miscalculated the amount for the second wave, and are trying to ramp up production speed, but the manufacturer is the bottleneck in this” or “Many of the units we received were faulty, so we had them do them over” or perhaps “the ship containing our tablets capsized and we’re waiting for the next shipment” or “we completely forgot to order them in time.” or something like that. But not this “we’re just a start-up” bullcrap. We know that you know that we’re smarter than that.
I am still terribly excited by the Jolla story and the tablet. I was an early contributor for the Adam tablet only to be bitterly disappointed by the results. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hope for better results no matter how long it takes.
the tablet arrived only to a few reviewers…
there’s no batch … all posts coming from jolla is bullshit.
They are manipulating us. Keep the eyes open.
That’s the Point!
Everything is fake!
Hi,
I’m not a reviewer, only a guy who joined the indigogo campaign on the first day and I received the tablet.
But I had the same feeling as you have now. I felt not informed at all, even the mail to pay the taxes was vague. I had always the feeling that my money maybe gone. Finally it arrived as a Birthday present for me.
I believe everyone is disappointed and aggravated about the delays! The contributors have every reason to be upset about the delays! But remember, the May/June dates were estimates only, based on the knowledge Jolla had at the time. Yes, there is doubt we will ever get a tablet in our hands, this year. But I believe that Jolla employees would rather have Jolla go belly up before they break their commitment to their contributors!
You can say I am naive all you want, but nobody is more frustrated by all the delays than Jolla employees are! They are fully aware that the delays are tarnishing their reputation a bit. More than anyone, I believe they are committed to delivering the tablets to the contributors.
It may be wise for Jolla to limit the scope of their work to software/OS only until they are more mature as a company, and have solidified their suppliers and optimized their logistics! The Jolla tablet campaign was huge! They were not prepared for the large volume of contributors and for the massive logistics problem that ensued!
I for one will be glad when my tablet ships! I still believe that Jolla and Sailfish OS have much to offer to the duopoly that is the smartphone/tablet ecosystem! Jolla’s biggest mistake was that their appetite was bigger than their stomach!
I can believe in the idea and concept. It is the people that I have little confidence in.
“nobody is more frustrated by all the delays than Jolla employees are! They are fully aware that the delays are tarnishing their reputation a bit”
And who can change this, who can post real information, who could see the delay, who can tell where are you in the waiting list for the tablet, who can organize refund option, who can answer the comments…
Did they any of these? No. We have said, we have asked these many times.
Does anybody remember the bootstrapping blog post?
( https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-hardware-adaptation-team-day-zero-bootstrapping/ )
Were there more posts like that?
“I believe that Jolla employees would rather have Jolla go belly up before they break their commitment to their contributors!”
“I believe they are committed to delivering the tablets to the contributors.”
Maybe, but we will newer know that if they do not provide real information to us or do not communicate with us.
I think if their commitment is so powerful, they should answer out questions…
I find this completely a load of BS! Talk about wasting words to say absolutely nothing!
If you have the device design complete and being manufactured, just tell me when I can see mine device. It is that simple.
I emailed customer services and copied my invoices from the tablet 64gb and mapbagrag. I got the refund for both but not the postage. I paid via credit card and asked them to refund via Paypal. As I know from past refunds on crowdfunding, it is not possible to refund back to credit card for some reason but paypal is possible.
I emailed many times over the past few months. I did not get any email about the refund. I happened to check my paypal this morning for another transaction and there I saw a refund from Jolla Asia. It was a complete surprise!
So you basically give them 20$ for nothing… Free money, that’s the spirit.
Okay @Jolla, the comment section of this post is a perfect acid test to determine your current situation. Unless you are a few sandwiches short of a picnic (like @ossi1967 or @Beethoven) and can’t perceive reality adequately, you should understand that the anchor which is quickly pulling you down is NOT a caravan of delays but the simple fact that you take us for morons.
It’s GREAT NEWS! You should be relieved by that! It means that right now, to drastically improve your miserable situation, you don’t have to bust your ass and try to ship our tablets ASAP. Instead, ALL you have to do is to publish a proper update in this very blog. IT’S THAT SIMPLE! Imagine that! Just a couple KiB of text!
Just break a sweat, concentrate a bit, and CUT THIS MARKETING BLETHERING.
If not enough parts were bought, tell us that.
If the manufacturer moved your production lot, tell us that.
If (for some freak reason) you can’t tell us that, TELL US THAT YOU CAN’T TELL US THAT. Believe me, even a honest “we are not allowed to share our problem with you because of a certain bizarre NDA we signed” would cause MUCH less disappointment than what you have published.
If you have even a slightest sense of business intuition;
If you give even a smallest spoonful of shit about us, your backers;
If you still have even a tiniest modicum of faith in what you are doing,
then you will publish another – proper – update in a couple of days. This may very well be your last chance.
Great comment. I totaly agree.
THIS!!
+1, transparency to where it should have always been, with full respect towards your contributors! Believe that they will pay back that respect to you. Don’t loose them.
Yup, this blog post was worthless for answering questions. Answer questions and you would gain some credibility.
The only real justification I can find for the posts on this blog is that Jolla Oy has no clue what’s going on over at Jolla Ltd
That talk on Slush, no new phone or Sailfish development news, but to start a new Jolla Adventures, Accelerator Program taking Nordic startups to Asia. But he said that you for sure get your tablet.
Honestly, their CEO said also about shipment waves on blog post before, and nothing happened. Sorry but I don’t buy it…
There was indeed Sailfish news: Jolla has now one of the large license customer, a smartphone manufacturer Intex in India. He said that Intex plans to expand the platform Jolla outside India.
“Intex plans to expand the platform Jolla outside India.”
Maybe jolla waits for that to ship the tablets 🙂
Or maybe we will be able to buy Sailfish OS tablet from Intex before we get the jolla tablet…
http://intex.in/intex-sailfish-os/
Here is Intex page.
Thats it exactly. I know that crowdfunding is not ordering. I do not even care if I get my tablet now or in two, three.. month. But this way of communication is really not what i’d like. Just tell us whats going on. I do not care even if its your fault. everybody makes mistakes. I just like to know whats going on.
“…you should understand that the anchor which is quickly pulling you down is NOT a caravan of delays but the simple fact that you take us for morons.”
Exactly.
They have thrown out some crumbs to the waiting masses and how that it will satisfy their appetite. Of course this is an illusion.
I always thought that these community supported things have this close connection between the backers and their company, but it appears that Jolla is not willing to do so. Look at how something like Star Citizen is being handled. Regular updates, open communication, transparency. Learn from them.
+1 and +1 for Review Jolla
Just to be clear is sunday your dead line, or can the post wait till monday before the last chance is over?
This post. As a Jolla backer and supporter, I’m more than a simple customer. Sure I didn’t “invest” but I nevertheless feel like I should get a little more informed about the process because I trusted Jolla and paid in advance for a product that didn’t exist at that time. Really, Jolla, you owe us more information about this mess. Even if it’s bad news. Even more if it is, actually.
Just give us information about how to get a refund. This has gone on long enough now.
You can’t claim startup status if you are 4 years into the business.
Juhani, you’re giving Baghdad Bob a run for his money. How can you live with yourself when your job is to write 438 words that say absolutely nothing? Shame!
I have exactly the same motive as jbrhebergen. I wanted to support Jolla and the campain, I believe many has the same reason. It is great that somebody try to something that against the mains stream. It is sad to read all this, people are angry and disappointed, they are really waiting for the device, so do I. I agree that Jolla should be more open, contributors (at least many of them) would understand better than regular customers. Please share more information.
Tell us how many is delivered, what is the next amount etc. We supported you Jolla, keep us a Family members.
Totally disagree whatever. Would like to spend some more money to get my Jolla Tablet in the end.
Great thing with the Android-Shop !
I don’t care much about the delay… it’s a pity it wont happen before X-Mas, but it’s ok.
More important: Make the tablet available for more people! pls offer it in jolla store for regular buy.
Yeah. It’s truly annoying. Now I can’t even use it as a give away. 🙁
Would (some) of you people please stop with the negativity! Ask for a refund and then you don’t have any more reason for anger (and commenting here).
And about investing: do you really think 200 something €uro for a tablet is ‘investing’? Sorry, all/most of that money is quickly spent for hardware, OS development, transactions.
If 200 Euro trips you up upon-not-immediate-fullfillment, i.e. if you are that short on money, you should imho rather buy an Amazon Fire or something similar. If you didn’t do your research before ‘investing’ it’s your fault. One should foresee that there might be obstacles if one ‘fights’ against such Mammoths as Android and iPhones/Pads. Don’t you think so?
Jolla is about an alternative and if you give in on the first little storm already, I question your ‘dediction’. Lame investors, go away.
I still want my Jolla tablet, I am just fed up with the bullshit that they offer us instead.
Give us numbers of how big Wave 2 is going to be, give us reasons why there’s been another delay. Give us a spreadsheet of when they’ve planned whose shipment.
Tell the Russians when they can expect theirs.
None of this “we’re still a start up” emotional appeal, but actual stuff. Like “we fucked up the numbers”, “the supplier of parts went bankrupt” or “the devices weren’t up to our standards.” Any of those reasons would be a gazillion times better than what they’ve been offering us so far.
You ask for numbers…
While I don’t know the situiation with their Chinese assemblers I strongly suppose they (Jolla) don’t know themself. Maybe there were several missed deadlines from assemblage and you cannot trust received promises 100 %. What do you do then?
One has to be patient and not over-inflate ones ~200 € ‘investment’.
You (and several others) are missing trust in ‘the Jolla people’. They do what they can and what is possible. Probably even more.
Then say so in the update: “During assemblage the supplier missed a deadline or two. We are trying to get a better grip on the supply-chain so that this problem doesn’t exist anymore in the future. For now this means that our own deadline of shipping the tablets of Wave 2 will slip too, as we cannot commence shipping until later this week when the tablets finally arrive.”
Or words of that effect are quite easy to type. And will provide a better sense of respect to the community. Right now, we are left with a whole lot of nothing.
I don’t mind waiting for a product, this is not my first indiegogo/kickstarter rodeo. But I do mind bullshit.
Besides, Jolla isn’t even communicating to *all* backers, just the ones who take the trouble to go to blog.jolla.com for their news.
So far no news reports have come from the Indiegogo campaign directly. So, presumably, a part of the Indiegogo backers are still completely in the dark.
Lame investors? If you see this as an investment and not a purchase you should know that we all got different reasons and expectations of the investment.
Exactly my point. ~200 € is not an investment and one shouldn’t expect one-to-one treatment for it. On the same time it’s not a product purchase either, it’s a Kickstarter and anything can happen. I think Jolla did well. Great even.
They (most likely) cannot do anything against the delays.
And what is it?
Money is money:
Can be a purchase, and in that case I want my product.
Can be an investment, and in that case I want to know what happened to my investment.
For sure I know it was not charity, I would have donated to some other foundations before donating to Jolla.
+1
Chukcha not reader, Chukcha writer.
Look, I know that this thread is long, but you could at least TRY to get an idea of what people are complaining about before commenting. Come on Chappie, do your homework.
“Ask for a refund and then you don’t have any more reason for anger (and commenting here).”
Excuse me ?
I asked for a refund several times via mail / twitter and Indiegogo.
But have you even read the blog ?
Here let me help you :
“The wave 3 schedule will be communicated as soon as we have more details…CUT… At that time, we will also provide more info regarding refund option (that was communicated in early Oct. 2015). Please stay tuned.”
AT THAT TIME (Wave 3 which is still NOT clear when this will be) I will finally hear about the refund option.
Bottom line REFUND IS CURRENTLY NOT AN OPTION !!
I am fed up with all the BS I got from this company. So I want my money back NOW.
But I do not get any reply on Twitter / Mails I’ve send. The least one could do is give me a proper reply. But no such thing whatsoever.
If we take a good look at the facts/information at this moment, the Jolla tablet is 1 big scam and I want OUT !
You dont understand, my idea to buy Jolla tablet was support Jolla and Sailfish OS, not to buy cheap tablet, its not problem money or price…problem is relationship between Jolla company and us like buyers and supporters. No MORE Jolla for me! Yesterday I was ask for refund money via PayPal…when they get my money back I will quit with Jolla and try to support Plasma Mobile and Ubuntu Touch. Best regards
Another Troll walked in… I supported them with my 270$ yes, but not to push them to create new company and make new deals with Indian hw manufacturers or whatever. I wanted TABLET with that specifications. They promised that and that is why I chose to buy that product. NOT TO SPONSOR THEM, TO BUY PRODUCT that they’ve presented. Instead of trying to piss other people off, be a good Troll and please go back to the woods and stay there.
Dear Jolla Team,
maybe just focus on finishing the tablet before telling your customers that there is a new app store they can use… on the tablet they don’t receive… wtf?! That doesn’t make any sense.
People paid money to in expectation of getting an up to date hardware for a more or less good prize. But shipping hardware a year afterwards means, that it is not an up to date product anymore. You will be (hopefully at any time) shipping an outdated and too expensive product. Smart business plan!
Suppose it’s better this way. Hope you markomm find more satisfaction with Plasma Mobile or Ubuntu Touch. In the end they share ~similar goals.
Cannot even use a reply button?
The Nokia force is strong with Jolla. I see you’re back to being the same. Slow to react, not very customer friendly, misses deadlines, never learn from your mistakes and pretends that everything’s alrighty.
I’m still interested in the tablet (found myself on the previously published list, among the 600 first contributers), but these vague blog posts which really tells us nothing – are starting to piss people off (and me). Did you take PR classes in PRC?
I really hope you’re in full panic mode now, because if you’re not, then you might fail hard. It’s not only a failure towards your community, it’s also a failure towards newcomers and developers. I myself am an (embedded) C/C++ developer who works daily with Qt development, and I used to have an interest in developing for Sailfish OS; but I’m not so sure anymore. You can’t afford to lose your customers by repeatedly withholding information (unless you have plans at abandoning them altogether, for a small share of the asian market).
Considering the time passed and the amount of information given, I expect to have the tablet in my hands between February and April next year. It’s simply better to have low expectations from now on when it comes to Jolla.
I am happy to wait. I love the Jolla phone (updating it to 2.0 as I type!). I expect the tablet will be as awesome as the phone. Keep up the good work Jolla, I am backing you guys for the future!
+1, but i don’t have your patience. Bye bye Jolla, get reimbursed this morning.
Do you mean you have been reimbursed? How did you manage this?
When I asked Jolla about it they said I would have to wait until all tablets have shipped before being reimbursed, which made no sense to me.
I backed on IGG, that may have an impact.
if hou have made payment less than 6 monts ago and reside in eu, consumer protection directive and the payement directive require that your Bank (including Paypal) reimbursed you within 2 Bank days, if you revoke the payement. Non delivery is a valid reason. Then the Bank reverse the payment.
After 6 months, only consumer directive applies and in this case you need to open a fraude case with your Bank and initiate one with your locale justice. A non delivery without commitedSchedule to deliver is valide case. Your local law and langage apply as well as eu directive.
If you reside outside of eu, you need to open the case within the eu territory. Usually Spain and belgium are the best place to do it (universality of local law is a principleof their system).
Hope this would help.
Thank you for some great info!
That is very helpful, thank you!
Unfortunately (for me), I backed it on IGG so can’t get a simple refund.
I will give Jolla a chance to respond to my latest questions on their support system and then will contact my bank to start the fraud proceedings.
Thanks again for this info.
I will chance my opinion towards Jolla only if the tablets will be delivered on the end of November or fist week of December. Everything after is simply a proof of their incompetence. Sorry but this is truth.
Hello Jolla
I’m supporting you since The Phone 😉 and i will support you in the Future, but pleas let us know why you can’t send our Tablet’s. Give us more Updates! And your “relatively small first batch” must be very small i backed as 23th and did not received it. I guess i have to wait till 2016. I will wait but pleas, pleas give more Updates and explain it why.
Thanks
Andi
I think it’s complete BS that you use being a start up company as an excuse. first of all a startup doesn’t have 200 or so employees and HQ in the centre of Helsinki, a startup is when you’re making shipments out of your basement. what pisses me off is that I supported (and still do) Jolla because of their transparency policies and involving the community. Lately there has been no sign of involving and communicating with tge community, I feel as if ever since Marc Dillon left the company values have gone down the drain.
for me it is not impossible when the tablet is ready to ship or will reach my hands! For me it’s really important that the Tablet will be stable and includes the best hardware and solutions! Let yourself quite time to ensure the quality…
Thank you Jolla! 🙂
Thanks for the Update, looking forward to my new Jolla tablet
I’m a bit of a slowpoke, so I’ve only now got to read about Jolla’s speechification on Slush.
THIS. IS. HILARIOUS!
Seriously guys, I can’t stop laughing. You honestly use that “we are still a start-up” excuse without batting an eyelash ONE DAY before announcing that you start an ACCELERATOR. In other words, you are still a startup, but that’s okay, you can afford to fund OTHER STARTUPS nevertheless.
The only thing that could make this situation even funnier would be that one of the startupers you bankroll opens HIS OWN accelerator and starts financing even more startups. Then you could even create infinite recursion! Or hey, put your Startuper on and get a contract with them, then there will be an infinite loop.
Boy oh boy, what a perfect example of what 99% of startups are. Empty talk.
Yes, “we’re still a start-up”, that’s when I new the rest of the story. “A walking blunder” might have been the better choice of words.
That is complete bullshit. They are not STARTUP company. They had Phones before (Jolla Phone) remember? And they develop they own OS which is present for years now… So why lying to people?
Spare us your negativity. Get a refund. Quit here and be happy.
(FWIW, if I were in charge of this blog, I’d delete your posts. Useless. (One time ok, but spamming the comments as you do? Go away!)
If someone is spamming the thread, then it is you my friend with your positive BS. There are many of us that are not satisfied with the results, and only couple of you that are brain dead that still believe that it is normal.
Two things, first one I’ve asked before without an answer.
After everyone who has pre-ordered a tablet has gotten theirs, will more be made for other customers? Will they be sold only via Jolla Shop or also by retailers?
Is the Aptoide store only for the tablet, and not for the phone? If so, why?
Sorry, @Jolla,
but you are by far the most incompetent bunch of dilettantes I’ve ever met. I’m really sorry to say this, because I really believed in your project. But you are just one sad excuse for a start-up.
If ever I shall receive the tablet – and I’m beginning to doubt such a thing will ever happen – I’ll better pass it on to the nearest technics museum as an example of how things shan’t be done, of how idealism alone is the wrong recipe for success.
I simply can’t believe what you’re delivering. One walking disappointment, that’s what Jolla is to me.
Nothing to add to that.
I’m sorry for the people who are on your payroll, but Jolla deserves to go out of business.
OK-so I’ve asked for a refund but you won’t be rid of me for a while because the refund won’t ship until after all IGG tablets have shipped.
So I still have an interest in whether they’ll ever finally get the rest of the units out of the door.
Interestingly because the Canadian dollar has tanked by 20% against the USD since this started I’ll be getting more back. Sadly any other tablet is going to cost 20% more.
Now that’s a way to speculate on stock exchange. But hey, why not.
So just to confirm, jolla have told you that you will only get a refund after ALL tablets have shipped ?
Just so I don’t mis-speak — the definitions are because in the initial communique it wasn’t clear regarding pre-orders and the huge long tail on the project that didn’t actually close until Sept 2015(3months after projected delivery but hey IGG is a flexible platform):
”
Jolla Service and Support (Jolla Service and Support)
Nov 13, 16:56
Hello again.
“All have shipped” = all IGG backer Tablets have shipped.
A “hold on the device” = we will not ship the device and will/have instead note/noted that a refund needs to be effected.
Once again, the terms at point in time are refunds will be handled after IGG backers are shipped.
Furthermore, we have taken note of your case and we plan to process it according to the terms above.
Sincerely,
Jolla Customer Care
”
Got to be said the last sentence makes it feel like my card is marked. Sadly my payment being in USD probably operates under US customer care which is in general wonderful but isn’t legislated.
Then again the refund policy is mentioned but there’s no timeline as it is attached to the completion of wave 2.
Well, I don’t understand those posts above. Sure I am not happy with that huge delay. But I know, what I’m going to get in the end.
May I be a developer (damn on you, Jolla, you refused my app due to ridiculous contraints (just because I used Qt-Widgets)), as a developer I know, that a brillant OS will do for eternity. Did anybody ask himself, why Android-Apps are doing that well on a Jolla Phone?
So calm down, folks. We will get, what we deserve: a Jolla Tablet. And yes, of course I am impatient as anybody here around.
+1
It is sad to see the Jolla blog being trolled like this… 🙁
don’t worry about your app, Jolla were very nice and helpful with my app, so i am sure you will get it resolved! … 🙂
Unlike atmin, I’m not so sure what I will get in the end – what if the tablet’s performance etc is as misinformed as the updates are becoming. Would like to hope that it will be what we all hoped for a year ago – but remember a year has passed and a year in technology is a long time these days!
I would still hold out for the tablet but need something a bit more certain – as to when I might actually get one, what order point I have, what additional shipping costs I’ll have given that shipping was paid, are the purchased accessories actually available too etc etc
I can be patient for a few weeks a few months even but we’re already into year 2!!
Contributing to the Jolla tablet campaign was not an investment, it was a vote. By contributing to the campaign, we were helping Jolla to gauge how popular and successful a Jolla tablet would be. If they received the amount of money they requested in the campaign, they would give us tablets for contributing! If they did not raise enough money, there would be no tablet, because they would have known interest was not strong enough to warrant the expense and effort!
I may be wrong, but I believe that Jolla will not make any money from this venture! I suspect it will cost them more to manufacture and ship the tablets, then they received in contributions.
Again, nobody made a financial investment by contributing to the Jolla tablet campaign, it was a vote of confidence and trust! If you wish to make a financial investment, then you must buy stocks or bonds or some sort of financial contractual transaction that stipulates how much a return on your investment you will receive via dividends. We did not do that with the Jolla tablet.
I do wish that Jolla do provide us with technical information about the final hardware and software specifications of the tablet, and update us weakly in detail about any information about shipping waves! How many waves will there be? How many tablets will be shipped in each wave? That sort of thing.
I still believe that you (Jolla) have much to contribute to the mobile (and general) computing paradigm. We need small ships navigating the rough seas that is the mobile computing space! We need others than Apple, Microsoft and Google as the only options. We need a small but rugged pirate ship stealing back the booty of users that was stolen through monopoly!
We need you, Jolla. We need someone leading the way, freeing mobile computing from the proprietary and locked down software and hardware, leading us into an open source paradise of freedom and privacy! We need you!
that “vote” came from the promise of being open and getting something unique. Jolla has not been open and the tablet was not something they designed unless you count the plastic covering and usb port.
“We need you, Jolla. We need someone leading the way, freeing mobile computing from the proprietary and locked down software and hardware, leading us into an open source paradise of freedom and privacy! We need you!”
Are you on drugs?
Talk for yourself, for me jolla is a company deliverying a technology that may be interesting (cannot say for sure before I see it).
But after 2-years+ they are still not “open-source” and not “free”.
And by the way, I didn’t pay 220+ EUR to ***vote***, I paied with the expectation to get a product, and so far I didn’t.
If they loose money in the process, it is their problem.
And they could still fix it: if they came to us 6 months ago, or even better at the end of the IGG campaign saying: “sorry guys, we overpromised, we could never reach that goal” I would still trust them.
If I go to the client days after my deadline is expired, and tell him “I am sorry, but we will try to deliver in the next weeks, maybe” more than once, my client will probably ask for clarifications, and getting nothing but humble promises, and no clear answer will probably sue me.
I understand that contributing to IGG doesn’t put me in that position, but I expected at least a bit of professionalism and opennes. Well, my expectations were betraied, several times.
If you like to throw money out of the window, let me know where you live, so that I can come to collect some.
Slow down. Try Ubuntu Touch or KDE Mobile.
You’ve been told that you can get a refund. So let you refund later and stop here.
The CEO bowed to you also, what more do you want?
Give one finger, tear out the hand. You are intelligent enough to know that one not always knows if a deadline will expire or not. You are not friendly. I wouldn’t want to have customers like you, to be honest.
Think about it. And that you only are able to buy a jolla tablet because some people provide energy despite all the insults and critics.
> You’ve been told that you can get a refund
The only reason why we know that it’s possible to get a refund, is that some active people investigated the situation themselves (@federico1828 actually had to call to frigging HongKong) and figured out a way to get their money back. Jolla’s only answer to “how can I get a refund” was (and still is) “we are thinking about that, stay tuned”.
> The CEO bowed to you also, what more do you want
Do not even get me started on this hypocritical moot excuse. A Japanese bow means that you promise to improve in exchange for forgiveness.
> And that you only are able to buy a jolla tablet because some people provide energy despite all the insults and critics.
It amuses me that when Jolla f*cks something up people start crying that Jolla is a knight in shining armor fighting the establishment with nothing but sheer enthusiasm, but when they refuse to stand by their promise and release the source code, the same people say “look, Jolla is a for-profit company, how they gonna pay their engineers if Sailfish will be GPL’d?” Rabinovich, you either take your cross off or put your pants on.
That high-flown rhetoric from @ddavid123’s comment would make sense if it was about the Neo900 crew. THOSE people actually have faith in open and free mobile solutions and bust their asses trying to create one. For Jolla, “open source” and “freedom” are nothing but buzzwords aimed at easily impressed people like you.
> You are intelligent enough to know that one not always knows if a deadline will expire or not
Once again, do your homework, Chappie. If you bothered to read this thread before commenting you would know that 90% of people don’t mind slipping deadlines but expect proper communication. In case you think that we should not only forgive delays BUT ALSO calmly tolerate constant absence of information, then… well, you have no idea about how crowdfunding works.
1) Ubuntu touch or KDE mobile are not what I paied for.
2) I was not told that I can get a refund, but that they “are looking into this option”
3) The “CEO bow” (seriously, he bowed behind a keyboard… ) didn’t change the reality of the facts.
4) Don’t worry, there is not a chance that you are going to have any customer like me.
5) They made an offer, and I accepted, to their terms, now the terms are changing, and you can bet that this makes me unfriendly.
As a side note, I am not on their paybook, can you say the same?
I mean weekly!
In fact weakly update, is already in place ….
Hey, I have been a jolla phone owner fot quite some time mow, and was hoping to get a jolla tablet in order to change my noisy desktop solution which consumes quite a lot of electricity just for small familly needs. I was expecting it to arrive 2nd quarter of 2015. This means a 6 months delay.
To top it of, among others a confirmed lie by the c.e.o. I don’t know why I should take this abuse from a company while I wouldn’t take it from my loved ones.
I would like some compensation for this interestless loan I just unwillingly supplied you with.
The only reason for these delays is to the best of my knowledge, money.
Jolla’s directors want cheaper parts/transports/… in order to make more profit and supliers try to take jolla hostage becouse they have an obligation to their backers.
All of which is part of the job. But scaring people which want a refund becouse jolla does not meet the deadlines by stating that if backers request a refund you will process that refund after all the tablets have been delivered, That is holding your backers hostage. Unacceptable in my book.
greetings
First of all, let me tell everyone that I have not contributed to the campaign (as well, have not ordered the Tablet).
However, I do own a Jolla phone (which is my daily driver). I am not above average intelligent person, I am as dumb as they come may be with IQ less than 50, and also am very poor hence could not contribute to the campaign, but I felt the need to comment hence this post.
I just wanted to defend Jolla and their mode of communication (this will rile many), but the point is I wanted an alternative for Android, iPhone because monopoly is no good in any industry, also Sailfish OS is miles better than those two in my humble opinion.
The delay can be attributed these facts:
1. They changed the display, there were lot of money spent on this (nothing is free in this world.. 🙁 )
2. Due to this the time slot available to them during manufacturing process is lost and priority given to other vendors (Number of phones to produce for Jolla are very small in number, it does not make sense for the manufacturing company)
3. Due to the above mentioned, there were lot of delays in getting timeslots for manufacturing. (Jolla has NO control on this whatsoever!!!)
4. Logistical delays can be attributed to the change in HW components and their availability, and also the design should accomodate the changes
5. The domino effect, many discount this, when in planning some task fail to meet a deadline, it affects the rest of the future outcomes in exponential factor, very frustating as it is but very deterministic in nature.
6. Changes in the gaurd at the helm, this is pretty significant as the person will have to undo and redo lot of decisions.
There are many smaller ones, which I will not delve into. But, the fact is Jolla cannot communicate these things since this is internal to the organization, many would argue for transparency, but in business world, this is prerogative of Jolla. They never “forced” anybody, anyone to contribute, it was decision taken by each individual. Just because you have contributed does not mean Jolla owes you anything, including communication and mode of communication.
I for one, will wait eternally for Jolla to succeed. I believe in Jolla, I may or may not be a fan, but I definitely would not jump out of Jolla, I am here for bad or worse, if Jolla sinks, I will go down with them, this is my conscious choice.
Love your support. Keep it up.
Definitely Keeping it (Jolla) is the plan.. ((( .. 🙂
“Just because you have contributed does not mean Jolla owes you anything…”
No actually all of us just gave our money out of the blue, because we love Jolla and we think that we have more than enough money so we want to share it with them… This is the dumbest comment I’ve read so far. We contributed / gave our money because of the tablet and their specification, along with OS that they’ve presented. So yes, they owe us, and that is a tablet that we paid almost a year ago.
Again, insulting: ‘the dumbest comment’. Stop this! It falls down on you and you will be reborn as a earthworm or so 😉 if you don’t improve…
As you know, crowdfunding campains can unfold in unforeseen ways. If you need 100 % security choose something else. Personally I’m glad that there are companies like Jolla who try such seemingly impossible adventures.
Sorry, but it is not an insult. It is truly dumb comment. If it is crowdfunding campaign, this doesn’t mean that they don’t need to deliver what they’ve presented. What is then stopping me from creating a campaign, collect the money and say. Thank you all, nice of you dropping by, but I cannot deliver what I promised due to various reasons only known to me, so I’ll keep the money, but it was fun you know and thank you for that. That is called a fraud. Again, I do understand that there are people that are simply Jollafied, so they don’t think rational, or they think that it is normal to fool around with people, but actually it is not. P.S don’t worry about me. In next life I can only be a playboy millionaire… 😉
I disagree with you that @godkhindi.ganesh’s comment was “dumb”. He is just an idealist (which is not bad) and despite my comments here, I share his attitude a lot.
But you are absolutely right in this:
“What is then stopping me from creating a campaign, collect the money and say. Thank you all, nice of you dropping by, but I cannot deliver what I promised due to various reasons only known to me, so I’ll keep the money, but it was fun you know and thank you for that.”
This happens A LOT in crowdfunding, especially on IGG, because IGG has this stupid thing called “flexible funding” (you get away with whatever you got, even if it is 1% of what you claimed to need). This option has become a red flag a LONG time ago, and if I didn’t already have a Jolla phone and didn’t know that they actually exist as a company, I would never ever pledge a campaign aimed at developing a *tablet* which has *flexible funding*.
So, just in case someone here thinks that what you wrote is an exaggeration, – spend some time to read about these campaigns:
TellSpec
Healbe
Scribble
KREYOS
Smarty Ring
There are LOTS and LOTS of scam on IGG, these are just the more egregious examples.
So, if someone thinks that people demanding full transparency and regular updates are impatient hysterics… just go buy a TellSpec.
But please why do you compare
TellSpec
Healbe
Scribble
KREYOS
Smarty Ring
There are LOTS and LOTS of scam on IGG, these are just the more egregious examples.
with Jolla? You should (and do) know better.
> why do you compare [scam] with Jolla?
Why shouldn’t I? TellSpec founders, for example, were a Ph.D. in mathematics from the University of Toronto holding 48 patents; and an Entrepreneur of the Year who founded eight companies before, with $75M worth of revenues. As a startup, this sounds at least as creditable as Jolla.
well good look with that playboy…
Crowdfunding goes like this: you have a good idea and some credentials, people trust you and ‘invest’some but not too much money. You work (often harder than initially thought) and then you provide the promised result. Often with a short delay. Sometimes with a longer delay. Plans maybe have to be adapted because not everything was settled 100 % to begin with. Very rarely the whole project fails and ‘investors’ loose the money. – But you knew this already, I’m sure.
Jolla offered to refund, so what are you continuingly complaining here? It’s really not necessary and uncalled for… Better wish them to become billionaires (and already in this life;)
As always, you conveniently left out one little detail in your portrayal of “how crowdfunding goes”.
The ONLY reason why this whole thing works is TRUST. The only reason why people pay their money with NO guarantee whatsoever that they’ll ever get anything in return is that they TRUST the people behind the campaign they are backing. And it is ABSOLUTELY vital for the campaign owners to keep this trust by regularly telling their backers what exactly they are doing with their money. THIS is how crowdfunding goes.
As soon as updates become rare and hollow, pledgers have every reason and every right to suspect that the people they gave their money to do not spend them on what they promised to.
you likely come from an area where one cannot trust each other easily.
if I trust someone I don’t need to examine every other day what he/she is doing. I trust that if it is really important, I will know. Otherwise it’s just idle chatter, sometimes nice, but not at all connected with trust.
A sensible person also knows by know that there are difficulties with the assemblage. But it’s a stretch to talk fraud. You are on the internet, do what you want i want i want…
I trust Jolla. And I prefer they enrich their R&D department instead of filling up marketing, blogging and chatter. Or to become over-cautious. Imho they (mostly) communicate well. Some things you cannot say and I respect this.
a <3 for Jolla to immunize all this terrible slam down
R + D rob and decive , that about covers it
Chappi, this is not just only about trust or no trust, it is about they are creating something unique, innovative, different and original, a lot of people want to be part of this experience and have a sense of being the part in creating something new. Definitely there will be frustration amongst them due to delay, but Jolla also does not pride in themselves for the delay, if you really do want them to succeed, you definitely will understand their pain, that is the whole point.
First of all, Jolla didn’t offer a refund. They stated that they are looking for a way to do a refund, which is totally different from what you said. Second, they’ve mentioned before that they will ship tablet and then you will have ability to take refund. This is idiotic. You will pay 25% of tax or whatever is in your country and then pay for shipment back ask for refund. So not only you have lost 60$ for tax, but addtional $$ for shipment, for something that is not delivered on time… I am sorry but that is truly stupid. I say, rather avoid shipping the tablets, and make full refund. That makes sense.
I do know that Jolla guys were there in blue attire, how dumb I cannot see the color.. and sorry that they forced you to part away your money .. (((( .. :0
Also, I did mention I have IQ of 50, you know, you should have done better ..may be different color ??
+1
@godkhindi.ganesh
I can live with your statement from point 1-6.
…They never “forced” anybody, anyone to contribute, it was decision taken by each…
Absolutely correct.
…you have contributed does not mean Jolla owes you anything, including communication and mode of communication.
I don’t know, I’m not in that kind of business.
But I can describe what are good manners and what is mining to be correct…at least to your supporters/followers.
And here is the catch.
Jolla’s behavior is the reason to losing TRUST,
even by their own supporters/followers…thus in their own BASE.
I don’t believe that is good for bussines.I know, same fistful fans will stay until the ship sinking, but no one company can survive on that way.
Devs will gone and newbuyer(s) will stay away.
And what happened with platform without apps and cashflow?
Believe me,TRUST is not just a word,its EVERYTHING.
Many years ago…before Bill Gates…was a richest business man on earth,known as somebody who never signed a contract.
@ZoSeli, I can totally understand where you are coming from, I know that you come from a place where Trust is the most important thing, however there are many businesses happening not because of trust but for compulsions (you think economic sanctions imposed on Russia is making every business happy? think about it).
Trust is more often misused and very selfish in nature, I will do business with whom I want to in the guise of trust and not based on any reason, I will provide you with umpteen cases if you so will.
All I say is nobody wants to be in a position that Jolla are in, but those who really want Jolla to do well, will definitely understand.
Again, I will change my opinion about Jolla only if they manage to deliver my tablet and in general what they’ve promised for us all, at the end of November or latest first week of December. After that date, I don’t need that tablet anymore, I want a full refund, and to hell with any of their future products…
great we can order apps for a non existant tablet , yea hah we got apps !
Jolla is unable to deliver!
And apparently Jolla isn’t aware of the cause they can’t deliver. Or they are incapable to deal with the cause!
It’s a shame! And huge disappointment for all your supporters.
Guess what? Nobody of these disappointed people will ever advocate you or your products anymore. Nobody will spread the word for you.
As a start-up it is essential to have a good start and many advocates. Even if you ship some more devices this year, which is hard to believe, you messed it up! SNAFU
I for my part don’t want the Jolla tablet any more. Can you do a refund?
Nevermind the delays and the problems with the delivery -it’s more important too look at the big picture and learn from this experience.
As long as there are closed SW (drivers, etc.) or HW involved there will be unexpected problems that you cannot do much about and projects like this will be overridden by big business with bigger wallets getting the priority from the manufacturers.
The small players like Jolla and their backers will suffer and if the experience gets too bad fewer companies will even try something like this in the future which would be a great loss.
If you look at the history of the early Linux it’s success was due to enough people working enthousiasticly on something they believed in and enjoyed doing in a completely open manner. What first was the hobby of a few then later became a revolution and business then also started to follow.
I backed first the Jolla phone and then the tablet because I wanted something else than the sandboxed ux offered by the big players, something where I felt I own the device and not vice versa.
I wonder how it would have turned out for this tablet if it was also open HW and manufactured in Finland instead -at least the community backing the project could help instead of just sitting and waiting in frustration. I would happily volunteer to help with the packing and shipping if I could 😉
I now this is quite utopistic, but if we want to really have open technology and freedom we have to make it happen step by step. And I think the Jolla story is an important step in that direction.
Next step: open HW and drivers to get things rolling more smoothly and empower the people and turn all this frustration in to a creative force! 😉
But this one I guess we will still have to just sit out and wait…
You sound like you may be interested in the Neo900 project.
http://neo900.org
They try to do exactly what you say, and they are close to getting there. The only weak spot is the price/HW performance ratio, but if you are not one of those people who compare smartphones by the number of CPU cores, it won’t matter for you. I gladly backed that project and eagerly wait for them to succeed.
Yeah, I’ve seen that but I’m not willing to go that far back in time regarding the hw specs 😉
I hope that Jolla will one day open source the whole OS and also in the future try to learn from all these hw and delivery issues.
Eventually there will be more and more open hw available and modular designs will allow us to gradually move to a truly free standard where innovation and new concepts can flourish.
I would like to see Jolla sail in that direction and navigate away from the the rocks that it has hit with this tablet project.
I understand that not all the open hw is yet available to compile a tablet with as good specs as these and therefore I also understand why this small boat is now stuck on the rocks.
But I’m still confident with the crew of Jolla and that they will get us where we need to be sooner or later.
And I must say that there is no better support than what we have received for the Jolla phone out there -just compare with the nearly a billion unpatched Android phones of same age out there that no longer are supported by their very big and resourceful manufacturers.
I’m amazed that Jolla has made it as far as this and I’m gonna sail with them until they arrive despite the rough and tedious ride…
@phovi, you have completely understood the spirit of startups and its pain points.
Let me also tell that all the backers people those who have backed the campaign are also right in their own way, some of them think that its not happening and want to cut their losses, which is totally fair. There are others who would want to give Jolla more time.
Nobody is wrong in their own assessments, its just that there are lot of unforeseen events that has delayed the project. So many are frustrated.
As you correctly put it, we need to see the big picture and all will end well once Jolla reach the shore.
I see there seem to be a couple of people asking for a refund, which means some tablet will become available again.
My objective is to get the tablet I ordered, test it a couple of days, maybe one week, and if it proves satisfying for the applications I have in mind (which are quite classical), then order four others for my close family members.
My concern is, the above will work only if the four are delivered before Christmas.
Because of the current delay, I was close to abandon the idea, but if really more than a couple of people really abandon their orders, I’m definitely interested. The only requirement for me is being delivered before the last week of December (in France).
Jolla, if such a thing is possible don’t hesitate to contact me directly (or to publish the info here, or on together.jolla.com)
I will also give away my tablet as Christmas gift. If Jolla fails I will cancel and never look back again. Given Jolla not doing something for the community.
If I ever will receive the Jolla tablet I will sell it on eBay:
Following comments are slightly off topic but still relevant for Jolla to make something happen and soon, or slowly lose supporters. My Nokia N9 finally died, needed something to tie me over – could not wait for Intex to get their Aqua Fish phone out – that could take 6 to 12 months to bring out a higher spec’d Sailfish phone, not the (again) below spec’d version they are proposing for the initial release. I wanted something higher spec’d but not over priced so got an Oppo R7+, brilliant value for money hardware but let down by Lollipop 5.1.1 – still a vast improvement over previous Android versions but still aweful, disjointed and illogical. Hopefully a port for Sailfish OS for Oppo might happen one day – BUT – I am still waiting like every one else for my Tablet and will keep waiting. I will never entertain the idea of a refund – I have supported Jolla from the start and will continue to do so. In the future I will get a high spec’d Sailfish phone but Jolla needs our support now no matter how long it takes and for some people to not act like cry-babies who all too easily spit the bummy.
As most of you, I’m very dissapointed with the delays (in fact the situation became surrealist). For people working in I.T., is it so difficult to send an e-mail to each one who ordered one of these “phantom” tablets, reflecting the number of purchaser (i.e.: position 1.357 of 6.000 buyers), and an realistic estimated date of delivery???
Hope you can deliver something some day….and congratulations for such botched job….
I think that Jolla will do everything to send the tablet soon as possible. Although I am sad that there is no personalized feedback to the “expected delivery time” (at least that I’m in the x. wave).There is a database with all the e-mail adressess, and the order times… I will not sell the tablet, like many written. For the time being I do not think about refound. Although I would be happy if it were under the Christmas tree. I’am waiting….
Jolla deserves a chance …
The world does not need Windows phone … [in memory of Nokia(I still have the phone Nokia6600 from 2003, and it works)]
I hope that Jolla will be also so durable.
Greetings from Hungary….
ps.: Under the Cristmas tree I meen 2015 Christmas…
😉
@JuhaniLassila
Don’t you think it’s a good time to do some damage control, mister “International PR & Communications Professional”? Or are you busy playing guitar in your Jolla Cruise Band?
+1
Last blog post had a jolla rep respond within the first few comments, this time they are conspicuous by their absence….
When do I get further information relating to a refund option?
Wow, you really do treat people like imbeciles. Of course you haven’t been able to stick to your delivery schedule! What’s worse, you are openly lying again when saying ‘a couple of weeks late’ when we all know this is not the case. Your scheduling is shocking. If this were my firm, I’d be making some serious decisions on restructuring and getting rid of most of your PM’s. I’d also look at revisiting your entire communications strategy, because it is poor and lacks transparency.
You don’t care about the consumer, you care about money. and I won’t be purchasing another Jolla piece of equipment again.
Money talks, jolla don’t!
Jolla, here’s an example of how to treat your backers: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hellobragi/the-dash-wireless-smart-in-ear-headphones/posts/1413946?page=1
Notice there is good news, as well as tempered expectations around the fact things can and do go wrong with building physical devices.
Comment quand ont va recevoir la tablette, deva un ans , je pense que sa sera pas pour l’année 2015 la tablette sera depassée , plus jamais je ferrais confience a jolla c’est terminer pour moi
“In the previous communication we stated that wave 2 shipments will occur at the beginning of November…
We are pushing to start wave 2 shipments a couple of weeks late, i.e., by the end of November.”
Can you now confirm that this is true?
Thank you very for communicate your status, and have good continuation.
So the CTO is out now? https://mobile.twitter.com/stskeeps/status/666464364376031232
It looks like everybody is bailing Jolla. Should we all be worried? Tablets are not near us and slowly everyone is abandoning Jolla.
It appears that there is nothing to be worried about. The CTO office was shared between Harri Hakulinen and Carsten Munk.
https://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1488328&postcount=79
He also just gave a response at https://together.jolla.com/question/121937/carsten-munk-is-leaving/.
“I hope you jumped, instead of being pushed, and it wasn’t because the platform is burning”.
Munk: “I leap forward into the future”.
You guys are getting pretty special.
Saying that there will be 3 batches, and that the number of the batches shall be 3 – and then repeating the thing 3000 different ways.
Without actually saying:
1. How many are in each batch.
2. When, where and who gets what in each batch.
3. Actual like real drop-dead dates.
I was accepting of delays – but now it looks unrealistic that my pre-order will arrive before Christmas.
So – I’m going to have to buy some other product.
And cancel my order of course.
Because I pre-ordered rather than pledged – I can almost certainly ask my credit card company to do a chargeback based on a breach-of-contract (i.e. a promised October delivery).
Come January 4th – and if Jolla fails to provide a concrete date by then – that’s what’s likely to happen.
Coming late to this party, but here goes….
Any dates that Jolla might give us before shipping are meaningless, because they have no control over the timing of the manufacturing process. Better not to give us dates until they are able to really commit to them. Having said that, raising expectations and then going dark is bad in a crowdfunding campaign: they need to say something meaningful about how things are going on a regular basis without having it dragged out of them. IMHO the format of this blog is a mistake: it has too much of a corporate feel to it, and is not suited to the kind of information flow that would keep crowdfunders happy.
Good communication is not a red herring: it is the backbone of a well-run crowdfunding campaign and is needed to reassure backers that the campaign hasn’t died, especially with a company like Jolla that has several ambitious projects on the go. I am repeatedly astonished that Jolla seems unable to learn this. Don’t they compare themselves with other crowdfunding campaigns?
Personally I will keep the faith with the tablet and be patient. Jolla’s mission is an important one. I would love to have SailfishOS on a mobile phone too, and I considered going for the SLUSH special, but decided against. I will wait for some of the non-Jolla hardware options to appear.
Everyone, you need to take your complaints to Indiegogo not Jolla. The issues are 1) they represented themselves as being open, this is the biggest complaint. Also they gave us the NDA line. 2) they used the money to change the nature of the business somehow 3) the product was supposed to be something they designed “from the ground up” (I believe) in fact it is a carbon copy of another tablet (except for the picture on the case and usb port) 4) the person in the video left the company. After you’ve taken this up with indiegogo if we find that the issues are still unresolved it’s time for a class action lawsuit. I’ll ask my uncle what this entails.
I don’t agree, Indiegogo is a service while Jolla was the one that initiate tablet creation campaign. By my opinion they need either deliver tablet by the end of November or first half of December, or return money. Full refund, without shipping BS and tax payment.
Indiegogo is just a platform for organizations to do crowdfunding. They have no baring on what Jolla does or advertises.
Any news on the refund front, or is it yet another Jolla “promise” that has failed to materialise?
I would have thought that:
1. Creating a refund scheme is easier than producing Tablets;
2. Jolla would welcome cancellations, as it takes the pressure off production.
3. It should speed things up for people prepared to wait a bit longer…
The whole initial scheme of refunding (“wait until the tablet is delivered to your hands, then mail it back to us”) reeks of an irrational hope that some people who want a refund will change their mind. (Like, “I waited so long, now the tablet is finally in my hands, I guess I’ll not return it after all”). This is ridiculous from a business point of view, but looking at how Jolla acts I have more and more doubts in their professionalism as businessmen, so I guess it actually could be their plan.
I would be very surprised if there was a real refund option. I would have said it’s never going to happen but it does seem that Finland has some legal requirements around crowdfunding in that crowdfunding for consideration (backer reward) is allowed but the project must be planned with a structure that ensures the Finnish money collection act will not apply. Not delivering the tablets would seem to have them run afoul of that consideration. Unless Jolla has a money collection permit?
But as has been said by many it would be way cheaper and easier to refund now and sell that tablet as new to someone else who wants it than to ship it out before starting a refund process.
Some relevant news today worth mentioning.. the Kickstarter project by the company Torquing for the mini ZANO drone, which was meant to connect to your smartphone to take pictures and video, was just cancelled today. The project was cancelled even though Torquing had already a few weeks ago sent out a detailed delivery schedule, including numbers and concrete dates. Really caught me by surprise, and now my $200+ that I invested are gone. I guess that’s the risk with a crowdfunding campaign.
The ZANO product was supposed to be delivered in June, much like the Jolla Tablet, but obviously Torquing ran into a bunch of hardware and software problems, not unlike the ones Jolla has run into. Thus, I think this unfortunate news with ZANO today goes to show that Jolla is by no means the only European start-up struggling to deliver an advanced crowdfunded product. Despite the long wait and disappointment, I still believe in Jolla, and I hope the tablet doesn’t see the same fate as the ZANO drone. I will, however, think twice next time I see an alluring campaign on IGG or Kickstarter.
So what is the last time table made up by jolla?
I seriously doubt that they even read this blog…
Maybe they are busy preparing the party for celebrating November 19th… 🙂
@fvalpondi, you seriously have great sense of humor, I am sure you have many girlfriends .. 😀
Oh God, I almost forgot that today it’s the anniversary. Perfect time for a new update (looks like it’s gonna be the last one).
You can get your refund via credit card company.
I also want to have the exact time schedule for the delivery of the tablet, up to now, I still do not receive any email for updates or confirmation for delivery, feels frustrated!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3teqdr/finnish_newspaper_reports_jolla_in_financial/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jolla/comments/3teqdr/finnish_newspaper_reports_jolla_in_financial/
Can someone who speaks Finnish verify that?
According the news here in Finland that is true.
The fact that we learn that from the Newspaper and not from the blog is telling.
I feel that they have only played time with thees delays and the real reason has been lack of money.
I would say that the take time to commit a crime. Because they collect new money in completing orders, they can’t deliver! On 11/1/15 I payed 68 additional dollars tax withot getting a tablet. So people, be careful if they ever will tell you to complete your orders!
Hi Jolla backers!
According the news Jolla is going to lay off more than half of it`s employees, because of the financial difficulties! According to Jollas communication leader Juhani Lassila they still are drying to secure the tablet delivery’s to customers. The reason for delays is simply that they don’t have the money to produce the tablets.
Here is the link for this news (sorry it is in Finnish):
http://yle.fi/uutiset/aamulehti_jolla_lomauttaa_puolet_talousahdingossa/8466546
The icing on the cake!
@AnttiSaarnio!
@JuhaniLassila!
@CarolChen!
@Irina Avetisova!
@MarkoSaukko!
It’s time to clarify: do not you think?
don’t forget Marc Dillon who bailed one month age before all delay BS started…
You know Jolla, I’m really sad that you are dying. Honestly. Despite my comments, I actually had faith in you and wished you to succeed with all my heart.
But the fact that you cowardly concealed your position is abhorrent. Other failed projects at least had courage to keep their userbase, their backers, their fans informed. Just look at CST-01.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1655017763/cst-01-the-worlds-thinnest-watch/posts/1264316
I would expect nothing less from a company which touts its “openness” and “transparency”. And instead I got standard treatment of a naïve chump who can be kept calm until you are done washing off your hands.
I’ll be with you to the bitter end and won’t use the refund option (even if you do make it possible eventually). But as much as it is tempting to blame the troubles of “introducing something new to a saturated market”, bla-bla-bla, somehow I am sure that you had all chances to succeed, if it weren’t for your stupid decisions.
This is how I’m feeling about all this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAVfzFGm9AQ
Looks like most of us lost money.
Well, I am truly sorry for the people being losing their job.
@Scumcoder: I think Jolla had, and still have a chance as a niche product, but they have to change their communication policies
Nevertheless, communicating with the backing community would not have made things worse (probably better, actually).
See, this is the problem. They didn’t want to be a niche product, they wanted to be a real competitor to A and G. Instead of creating a small, but utterly devoted fanbase they tried to keep a foot in both camps, appealing to both FLOSS enthusiasts and “average Joes” at the same time. And it just does not work this way.
Average Joe does not give a crap about your #unlikeness, he wants his phone to “just work”. And Linux folks (like me) need *actually* open source. It’s funny how you can get a MUCH more open (and secure!) system with Android than with Sailfish, despite all those Jolla’s talks about “privacy”.
Jolla tried to chase two rabbits, and didn’t catch either one.
Yeah I see the point. I also am a free and open source sw enthusiast, and I was genuinely interested in the view of a future opening.
But this is not our problem. We supported Jolla because of the device. It is not our problem that they decide to used bad tactic by creating another company, do show and tell on several conferences and make additional agendas spending our money… If they can’t deliver product, they need to do a full refund.
If this is true about Jolla and that it is about to go under then i am truly saddened.
If I have to pledge more money to a unique and user empowering OS/tablet then I would.
if Jolla decide to be more clear and open about the situation.
I would just like an update that shows purchase dates. For example, if you ordered on January 31 from indiegogo then you should receive your shipment on Dec. 1. If you ordered between Feb. 1 and 18 then we are targeting Dec. 18th.
Jolla knows how many people purchases on each calendar day and how many devices they have in production and have supplies for, etc. At least give us a rough estimate.
rough estimate right now is never.. sounds like they don’t have money to build the tablets.
… all right, so it’s 50-50 again right now. jolla’s commitment / capabilities vs. financial accounts. Let’s wait & see who wins 🙂
What’s really on my mind:
… the head of communications would communicate to Finnish media before turning to their committed community ( family ). I thought of the jolla / Sailfish venture not being a Finnish soap opera alone to transport post Nokian Finnish pride – instead this venture came alive by its international contributors & community. The communication practiced is very disappointing and speaks volumes.
Even though financial tightness / trouble had been a notion around for a while the head of communications would just vaguely state that they’re still a start-up company. That is neither fair nor honest intellect-wise. The community gave constructive input, feedback & consultancy for free so far but should not deserve constant clarity. That is highly disappointing if not insulting. Freezing is no option if you’re not really up to involving a community.
So sick of getting treated as an inutile customer imbecile caring for a freaking tablet delivery only like a dog would for a bone. I thought the together culture meant more than this – honesty & clarity for example.
How come the fundraising campaign had been funded by a comfortable number of 480% ?
Where have all those man-hours gone into ? It sounded like a solid win-win basis for OS & HW development.
You had to create milestones both HW & OS wise to keep convincing ( for God’s sake ! )
Just because they got 480% of what they asked for doesn’t mean it was the right ammount of money. Each engineer for instance takes about $100,000 per year for salary/benifits.
There are a lot more than engineers to pay for. THen there is the cost of materials, shipping, manufacturing, etc. The ammount they raised was very low for such a small run rate especially considering all the software work that had to go into it. So it’s really not all that surprising.
They did waste money on splitting the company out and starting this jolla ventures thing though.
Could you please tell me where exactly an engineer gets this amount of money? I used to work in DaimlerAG (Germany) a couple of years ago, and the highest salary there was about 5000 Eur per month (managers I guess). Most people got about 3000 Eur.
Maybe I have too much of a north american centric view. For business costs I often think in USD so that 100k figure was intended to be USD but it looks like in Finland about $50k EUR is average for salary. (~53K USD / ~71K CAD) But you have to realize that the cost to a business of an employee isn’t just the salary, it includes the benefits, materials and facilities costs as well. So not likely to be quite 100k, but more than the 53K figure when all costs are accounted for
Oh, and I could of course tell you go to to San Francisco or Vancouver to get a salary of over $100k, but salary isn’t everything. Cost and quality of living is very important. Average house price in San Francisco is about $1 Million USD, average house price in Vancouver is $1.45 Million CAD. So it’s quite possible to live house/rent poor with a 6 figure salary depending on where you live
So true ! 😉
What you say is unreal. Here in St.-Petersburg a townhouse + 1000 sq.m. of land costs 3-4M Rub. I’m an engineer and I get ~160k Rub/month (post-tax). It means that if I live a “zero expenses” life (i.e. sleep on a bench in a park and eat prana) I’ll be able to buy a townhouse (like this one http://cdn4.realty.dmir.ru/479/984/taunhaus-tokkari-48997499-1.jpg) in about 2 years. In real life I spend about half my salary on my expenses, but on the other hand instead of a townhouse I can get a nice flat for ~1.5M Rub if I’m not picky.
You say that in San Francisco an “average” house costs $1M, and an engineer gets $100k per year. It means that living “zero expenses” life (eating prana) a qualified specialist in San Francisco has to work TEN YEARS to afford a house. This is insane.
Maybe I don’t understand something and you are talking about a palace with marble statues?
@obstacleman … I’m aware – but that’s what I wanted to hear from them. They stated it was 480% of their actual requirements.
For the sake of SFOS survival launch a bail-out-funding campaign and generate more serious device ports ( that support essential HW-features such as GPS, cameras & card-readers ) instead of reducing man-power sub-optimally …
…. it could / should spell out in company shares – which actually would involve a community basis more seriously in the long run.
I’m done … counting on you – Good luck !(!!)
———————————————-
I’m disappointed!
Despite MANY reservations and uncertainties I still rather hoped Jolla would deliver the Tablets, and go on to develop Sailfish on it.
Now’s the time for the remaining employees to post some hard info I think.
I hope the first wavers who got their tablets do not end up with collectible piece on their hands. Doubled their money if not more if that were the case.
Should not throw in the towel yet. Looking forward to positive news regarding the tablet.
This is an amazing anniversary gift to all of us who funded on day one.
Now the time has come to test if there is any love from Nokia. If the $2.5 million raised for the tablet was spent on workable ports for Sailfish OS on stock android devices the exposure to the masses could have been significantly greater. Is it a case of too many chiefs (creating massive overheads)and too few indians working to get the product to customers. As some one stated before – chasing too many rabbits and catching none or is it a repeat of infighting and loss of direction / focus – re: Symbian V’s Meego that created in part Nokia demise. Lets see what transpires over the next few months. Still hoping to get my tablet – fingers crossed.
Maybe we will get it with Windows Phone 10 and renamed to Jolla Lumia Tablet…
Already a year since i pledged in indiegogo and still no concrete data from jolla.
Is it game over or are we still in the game?
<3 Passion Respect Transparency
I have asked for a refund …
what was the result of your request?
I’ve put in for a support ticket requesting a refund as well.
Anyone received refund?
Was our money used for making the tablets?
How hard could it be if it already ran on nexus7?
I am not even expecting to get the tablet anymore. Just make the whole OS Open source. That way if JOLLA does go under the community has a chance to work on it.
You don’t have to Open Source Alien Dalvik. Just Release the source for everything else. That way it can continue. I can actually have hope for it then.
I have had hope that it would just take time. Right now I’m not even sure what the money for the campaign was even used for considering that the Aigo x86 is using the same design. So Jolla didn’t even design the tablet.
Looks like we can hope for more information tomorrow… https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/667337032914472960
They really have a lot of explaining they need to get done with. Like where did our money actually go. Why were they not manufactured till now. What was the money actually used for.
I was hopeful and really wanting Jolla to be great. But recent everything has gone downhill.
I hate to say it but I will be pissed if its another vague post.
Looks like this must be the “blog” that he is referring to?
http://jolla.com/content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf
Thanks a bunch for sharing this.
I think it is time to dispute the $750 that have been paid to Jolla for the Kickstarter on the credit cards. Including cases etc.
It seems that we have been fooled for months. This is a disaster that didn’t show up over night. They’ve known for months.
I am sad it ended this way. There is no more credibility.
R.I.P., Jolla. I lost over 700€ on the sinking boat. But I learned, that crowdfunding is a piece of shit and that I’ll never trust finnish phonemaker again.
And I thought Finnish people were pessimistic. I might be a bit naive, but I’m not burying the hatchet just yet – they still have time and chances to recover. But I agree with you, crowdfunding isn’t the most stable platform – you eiter get the perk, or you don’t. That doesn’t mean that all the Finnish phonemakers aren’t trustworthy, or maybe it does, because at the moment Jolla is the only one (with actual devices out there), so in that case your trust issues are valid – otherwise they are like saying “I know a/an I can’t trust, hence I can’t trust any of the .”, which is bollocks.
When writing this, I thought about Puzzlephone, another finnish phonemaker
I’m waiting how they will pull off, but since they already have most of the design ready and the IGG campaign is more or less a pre-order and they have a factory and facilities where to produce the phones, I’m hoping they will dodge the problems Jolla had. But, that remains to be seen. I’ll probably get it if/when it comes to open sale.
What “problems Jolla had”? Jolla also “already had most of the design ready” (Aigo x86), “had a factory and facilities” (China) and the IGG campaign was also “more or less a pre-order”.
Jolla changed the usb-port, they had a weak display (in their opinion), which they needed to change twice. They didn’t have the SW ready to match the HW changes, they chose Intel over ARM. Noone can foresee some troubles with bad components, but how come Aigo has been able to work with the original display and not Jolla?
They don’t have a facility in China, they are a minor company squeezing in between productions, and they (probably) underestimated the production costs, hence running into delays and aren’t able to manufacture the products.
Point is that Puzzlephone now is not in any way more creditable than Jolla was a year ago. Their IGG page looks similar, adduces similar arguments, and even uses similar expressions (a proud “Design from Finland” label etc.)
But that’s how every crowdfunding campaign starts, isn’t it? We have (in best case) a tested product (second best) which needs some fine tunign, or an idea (as Jolla had). You fund(ed) the idea and if all goes well you get something out of it, otherwise – well, not.
Another troll. Are you from Norway? Again, for the fifth or sixth time, I haven’t fund their second company or PR bullshit like conference, events like Slush etc. I funded the creation of the device and I expect that to be delivered by the end of November or early December. If this is not possible, I want a full refund!
As, for the n’th time, it doesn’t matter if you expect magical unicorns firing rainbows by the end of the campaign – there’s always a possibility that the campaign will fail, this wouldn’t be, neither the first, nor the last time. You funded for a possible perk that might or might not materialize – that’s crowd funding, you win or you lose. It’s a risk everyone participating willingly takes. And no, I’m not trollning, just sharing my thoughts, as many others here.
Don’t write your obituaries just yet. There is still life in Jolla(may be also second life like Lemminkainen.. 😀 ), also mind you it is yet to receive the second wind, which will happen surely.
On side note, Jolla is caught in a violent storm, don’t worry, Ukko Perkele will bring in fair winds and tides and see to it Jolla reach the shore…. 🙂
It’s official Jolla is in financial problems .. something we could see comming from MILES away ..
Jolla is sending half it’s personell on obligated leave to cut costs ..
CEO is stating he cannot guarantee the production / delivery of the tablets any more ..
Bye bye to my money .. 🙁
Here’s the Finish website
http://yle.fi/uutiset/aamulehti_jolla_lomauttaa_puolet_talousahdingossa__tabletti_vaakalaudalla/8466546
Here’s a dutch site stating the same :
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/106401/levering-jolla-tablet-is-in-gevaar-door-financiele-problemen.html
Ilmarinen was the God of the Winds, so he should be called out now… 🙂
This is the response I got from the support desk when asking for a refund
“Hello and thank you for your message.
We offer contributors two options:
Option 1: Our 14-day return policy for the Tablet, meaning that after having received a Tablet, one would have 14 days from that point in which to initiate a return.
(Read more about the policy here)
Option 2: We can take note that you would not like to receive the Tablet – effectively putting a “hold” on your Tablet’s shipment. Then, once we have shipped all the tablets, we will get back to you with more info regarding the refund.”
I’m part of the IGG campaign, and at this point looks like I’m screwed.
Option 2 one feels a bit of tightening flavor.
Refunding should take place when asked and not expect that all tablets have been sent, and only then to discuss of it.
I have received the nonsensical mail. From the perspective of a German citizen, they have no leg to stand on.
I have pre-ordered my tablet later, not through the IGG campaign.
I feared the end was nigh!
Ach well. I am actually happy knowing this.:-)
I am also at the same time a little sad though for the loss of the “Idea” that was Jolla. Also for most of the engineers that work for them. They will end up with the rough end of the stick.
To the people who have run this into the ground though.
You are an embarrassment to Finland for what you have done here.
Go hide your head in shame. Might I suggest Austria would be a good place because I am sure ossi your number-1-fanboy will let you stay with him…
To the rest of you.
Have fun.
I will not be back here.
I am done.
H
With the announcement that the Jolla finincing round is delayed and you have filed for debt restructuring the continued silence about the delivery of tablets is shameful.
Time to be honest and give us the worst.
The blog post they promised to publish today is delayed till next week:
https://together.jolla.com/question/122218/the-status-of-jolla/?answer=122233#post-id-122233
Come on man, by this point you should have already learned to automatically add a delay to whatever timeframe Jolla announces. Jolla has hardened us all, and taught patience.
https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/667713846396788736
Jolla officially has bankrupt.
“It will be late, but I guarantee you will get it.”
© Antti Saarnio, November 12th, 2015
https://t.co/e5WIiybX6q
Do you read their official document. They filed for debt restructuring a.k.a bankruptcy. He can guarantee what ever he wants but the thing is that delivery is now impossible.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/57/0c/ca/570ccadc6f792041a972d425703bffb8.jpg
At least you have a good time…
Well, I spent just about $200 and I knew the risks. So for me it’s time to finally relax. It’s not like I won’t survive now that I’ve lost these money 🙂
By the way, how much did you lose?
Jolla is going to “yrityssaneeraus/corporate reorganization”, which is to avoid “konkurssi/bankruptcy”.
Reorganization. this is a true BS. No company has made out by doing it so. My current company is doing this sh*** also. (since share holders are not satisfied by with the balance) So hard that they are cutting costs on toilet papers 😀 and still they have a money hemorrhage because they have an idiots on the helm.
No company? According Finnvera 40 % of companies succeeded (of companies which got their restructuring plan approved).
This would be more convincing if the initial funding had been forthcoming.
What’s unclear is if this is a manouvre formally to separate the Software & Hardware sides finacially and mangement-wise.
I’m assuming it is.
I wonder if someone is waiting in the wings (possibly some or all of the existing Management Team). Are they hoping to get the IP and the O/S for a knock-down price, withouth the hassle of the Hardware (Tablets) dragging them down?
Bullshit, sorry 😉
Maybe sometimes I will recieve my payed Jolla tablet.I bet no. I liked the idea of another phone os beside the big two and open source. If Jolla really would work together with their backers it could become a great os, but the never did. Sf 2.0 is far behind Android this doesn’t matter to me but how they treaded us backers an users that is a shame.
@Ossi1967 I’m missing your comments.
He is currently on his S&M treatment, so there are no comments from him.
Come on dude, no need to rub it in. Have some pity. The stronger the faith, the more painful the disappointment. His last posts on TJC show how disenchanted he is.
Shit, this is bad. So instead of lacking a production time, they are short of components for tablet. Unless more money is coming in, no tablet for us.
Very similar story to a Crowdfunded project near to me in Wales. They took several million dollars from backers for a micro quadcopter, missed all their deadlines, delivered a few malfunctioning devices, went silent, went broke.
What’s galling about Jolla is that it ISN’T a start-up. I’d therefore expected at least some business competence from the company to ensure sucessful delivery.
What’s worse is the strong suspicion that all the money that was raised specifically for the Tablet, was siphoned off into supporting an attempt to “save” the Software side, not into producing Tablets.
Hopefully the Finnish “Official Receiver” (equivalent) will shine a bit of light onto what happened.
Everything what you’ve said, I couldn’t agree more. NOT A STARTUP company, money went to software development instead of tablet production. This is truly Jolla’s fault, so full refund is the only option. But they will try to stall whole refund process, probably to buy some time.
Hmmm… if Jolla Oy gets accepted for the debt restructuring program, they possibly are not allowed to ship the tablets nor pay any refund, because that would be “wasting good money”?
Then someone should do a good jail time for scamming people. And pay for a refund to all.
H E L L O J O L L A!!!!
IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE???
You got 480 % of the expected money and you lost it?
What did we fund? The private Yacht of Antti instead of our little Dinghi tablets?
It is not only his fault, do not forget about Marc Dillon who jumped the ship one month before everything started. He was also one of responsible persons that got Jolla into this.
jumped or was kicked… who knows
Financials are Antti’s..
So, this is the final countdown then, and next week we are allowed to read some apologies from Jolla and they will leave us wonder where did all that IGG/Tablet money go – to.the development of the OS and sw certainly.. Is it fair to say thay the hw production and the Tablet campaign killed Jolla as a company we knew since 2012 and they underestimated the factory and hw costs and were not able to pay to.actually builr the device..? It will probably take weeks or months for us to know what the final outcome of this will be, but I.am sadly
fearful that Jolla boat will be sunk with an announcement in the IndieGoGo site that the Jolla Tablet campaign is cancelled.
I ‘m really disappointed thand said that the sailors let our small boat sunk, the #unlike spirit of #open tech and Qt/QML based #Linux mobile I have supported, advocated and loved even before acquiring the Jolla Phone #39 at the launc event on 27th of Nov 2013 in Helsinki, Finland. Monetarywise I’ve spend 1000+ euros on Jolla and now I’m one of 12.000 supporters that won’t even get the Tablet, that I was intending to.give as a birthday present to my son :/
Sincerely,
-jukka
I spent 3.178€ on Jolla (6 Jollaphones, Other Halfs and Lastucases, 3 funded tablets) – it is not my fault that the boat is sinking.
And so I blame Marc Dillon for killing this dream! 🙁
http://i.imgur.com/j93MCy1.png
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.de/2015/11/news-jolla-financial-trouble-debt.html
Considered this, there is nothing left that wishing the best for Jolla, if we ever want to have a chance to get anything.
And I am seriously sorry for the lay-offs, nobody likes loosing his job.
Good luck
P.S. if you ever get back on track, consider changing your communication strategy if you go again for croud funding.
(but I guess it fired back too much, and there are hardly any chances of that happening again)
Well,
The date on this thing is 20. October.
I guess we can then see that the statements since, including this post were all a complete lie.
http://jolla.com/content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2015/11/news-jolla-financial-difficulties.html
To Juhani Lassila – If this is true, the part with: “According to Lassila, delivery of Jolla tablet devices to customers is intended to ensure, despite the difficulties.”
If you manage to pull this off and deliver tablets despite of issues, I WILL DEFINITELY SUPPORT JOLLA LONGTERM. make my private promotion of your OS (since you are moving away from hw), and do small donations depending on my financial status, but ONLY IF YOU MANAGE TO PULL THIS OFF AND DELIVER YOUR PRODUCT. This would be the only way to restore your credibility.
That is all what I can say.
cheers.
“Those who have already pre-ordered Jolla tablets and have yet to receive them should rest easy as Jolla’s officials confirmed that the company would fulfill all orders despite the financial difficulties.”
It speaks only about the pre-orders and NOT about the IGG backers… Maybe it is only misreading/misunderstanding, but the IGG backers are not customers and they may loose their money… see the comment by jollakooth on November 20, 2015 at 7:26 pm
Do you think they could produce and ship the tablets in/with(?) financial difficulties, when they can not even write a simple blog post witch they promised yesterday? (timberline5 on November 20, 2015 at 1:25 am)
How much care they about their backers when we could not get any real news/information only from Review Jolla or reddit? when there are more and more concrete information on the Review Jolla blog than the official jolla blog?
“I can only say as much as I’m allowed to say. please don’t shot the messenger. I’ve been doing my part in constantly requesting more details to be shared to community.”
(cybette https://together.jolla.com/question/122218/the-status-of-jolla/)
So they have a lot of information, but we (the backers, the contributors) are not allowed to know it… I think this is the opposite to the mentality what they said on the IGG campaign.
And +1 for Axion:
I hope jolla will survive, but almost everything I read suggest the opposite, so make everything open, and at least somebody could continue 🙁
It would outrages that they deliver tablets to someone who preordered it couple months ago while rest of us, who actually gave a bost to a company would end tricked. Let’s wait and see, how the things will go from here.
Fully agree. Simple: we are silly backers and consumers are protected by EU law.
I believe that it is not all lost. http://news.softpedia.com/news/jolla-laying-off-at-least-half-the-staff-due-to-financial-difficulties-496436.shtml
If this article is true, Jolla guys/girls will fulfill their duties and deliver the product that we bought a year ago.
@Prometheus
I tweeted Jolla about this and received this reply:
https://twitter.com/JollaEs/status/667737375649435648
Which sates categorically that Tablets will be delivered….
Wait, but did they said IGG backers or pre-order buyers, or both?
You twitted @jollaes not the official jollahq
Hello, mr Lassila. Your update ist dishonest. Lying to me is worse than wasting my money. However, I wonder: did Jolla fall or was it pushed? Was communication just misleading advertising, or is there some sort of gag-order? A pity…
Do you really think that you will get a honest answer for this question?
Jolla were going to tell us anything?
Please update the blog with status of the tablet
1. Is it game over?
If not…
2. What is the status of manufacturing second wave?
3. What is the status of tablet parts for all the tablets?
4. Are any activities in the jolla tablet project right now?
5. When do you estimate the tablets could start shipping?
Some other questions
6. We funded the campaign with 480%. Why didn’t you mange to deliver more tablets?
7. Why change screen several times when you were short on money and jeopardize the tablet?
8. Why didn’t you asked backers or decide to ship an unfinished product rather than ship nothing at all?
Hmmm, that does not sound good .. that does not sound good at all.
Straight from the horse’s mouth (https://jolla.com/press/:
https://cdn.jolla.com/content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_61.pdf
let’s wait and see for their next blog. I am just hoping that they will answer on the question that is bugging us all. WILL ALL IGG BACKERS GET THEIR TABLETS THAT THEY’VE PAID ON IGG CAMPAIGN?
And when will we get it?
most likely the next update will just be an apologies with a rephrase statement on very vague information on the current situation. I am honestly just waiting for the refund option.
They may manage to ship the tablets as their final move, but who will maintain Sailfish. A software with no updates is dead meat and hardware with no updated software is not something anybody would like to have. Then there are repairs and replacements in warranty period.
That is where we step in. If we have the device in our hands, we have an interest. That interest is to keep development alive, so I would guarantee that everyone would agree with me to support Jolla financially (depending on their financial state). Of course that hw without OS is dead, so this would really be in best interest to Jolla to deliver what we paid for, and to fix or improve their credibility. That way they will insure new income and support (moral and financial). Don’t you agree with that?
But do they manage to ship tablets unless succeed in securing funding?
> A software with no updates is dead meat and hardware with no updated software is not something anybody would like to have
Well in this case I’m an exception from your rule 🙂 I bought my Nokia N9 in 2013, almost 1,5 years after MeeGo was murdered. Needless to say, there were no updates whatsoever. And yet N9 is STILL a wonderful device which does 98% of what I want from a smartphone.
More extreme example: I still use my N95 (bought in 2006) and it is still awesome.
As soon as the ecosystem reaches a certain threshold, it can live for years and years with no further updates.
Aren’t you in IT business? Never mind, I am. The thing what I have learned so far is every system (how good it is written) has lot of bugs that are not discovered. Observe Linux or Microsoft Windows. They have several decades of experience and still they have lot of bugs that are present, or they are found that are with us for years. Not to mention security issues, so yes we need Jolla, whether we would like to admit it or not.
The number of bugs always remains the same, whether the software is maintained or not 🙂 and in the latter case you always can get used to existing bugs and find convenient workarounds. This is what “stable” versions of Linux distros are for. They are “stable” not because they don’t have bugs, but because all of them are already familiar)
A LOT of people happily use discontinued Windows XP. There is even a large DOS community! (BTW thanks to them we have DOS with multitasking, network stack, NTFS etc.)
As for security issues, this is the beauty of small and widely unknown systems like Sailfish: even if it has vulnerabilities, nobody will bother to write a virus because noone cares about us xD
well I don’t know about you but I would definitely like to gave fully patched OS, and also security patched. OS is based on linux, and it is not small non relevant group. Each day security researchers finds a flaw to either kernel or linux application that are running on top of it. Yes I would definitely like that someone is maintaining this instead of me.
asdf23 and VlaoMao, I know that my English is not brilliant, but your pidgin english is very hard to decipher.
I know, sorry.
Well look who is talking 😉
Send me your ip address and I’ll show you why you do about updates. 🙂
Wait, you are is coderus?
So sad, I think that many of us realize that when we commit to something like this, it is a gamble. But in a way it’s an act of faith. Faith on our fellow human beings not only good intentions but their personal aspirations and self image. Maybe this is the best that they can do, that this is the best effort that they are capable of. But, whatever happened that brought Jolla to this moment needs to be explained in full detail. Today we aspire towards to as high a level of transparency as possible. As I read all the comments I am beginning to believe that the people behind Jolla fall into the opposite camp. One of dishonesty, bad intentions and incompetence. This is so not what I thought when I read the initial crowd sourcing offering. I am saddened to think that I was so fooled, so mistaken in my initial impressions. So much has happened that is unexplained that it becomes impossible to stay hopeful, maintain belief and trust that, with what is happening in the world today, are such precious commodities.
Exactly. If only Jolla’s executives weren’t such cynical pragmatics hungry for money and actually MEANT IT when they told us to work #together, we would get out of any trouble. Together!
But no, when they saw how many people gave them their money during IGG campaign, they became blinded by delusions of grandeur and thought they can take on the world. An of course, that they don’t need us anymore. It’s time to move on and make real deals with serious people, not with this filthy rabble.
(by “filthy rabble” I meant myself)
Sorry but I don’t agree, it is not a gamble. We haven’t invested into stocks and we are waiting to get a profit. We invested into tablets (the device that were presented to users).
Indeed. The cost of the hardware is well known.
I fear that our money has been used for other purposes.
Has anybody looked at legal actions already?
Yeah, I have been looking into sending the tricksters to Guantanamo. Still waiting for answer from US.
Jolla was an up and running company with a product developed and on sale when the crowdfunded tablet project was announced. That in itself made the proposition far less a shot in the dark and diminished the perception of risk when deciding to join the crowdfunding.
Anyway, for what it’s worth my theory is that there have never been problems with the teblets display and so on. Jolla is simply a company in financial difficulty as evidenced by the debt restructuring notice and intention to make a substantial number of staff redundant. Jolla doesn’t have sufficient liquidity or cashflow to pay the factory (cash) for tablets already manufactured and the factory will not give a company in finincial trouble credit. So until Jolla’s cash flow improves there will be no shipments. The succession of vague hoped for and anticipated shipping dates coincide with dates that Jolla expected to have it’s debt restructured or a further injection of credit from it’s bankers, which hasn’t happened so things just get pushed back further waiting for the day Jolla finds some cash. Just my own speculation…
“Deliveries of #Jolla tablets on hold, they can’t ship even the 12,000 prepaid ones” (see: https://twitter.com/fantas0s/status/668363622163357700 )
That’s not the kind of “freedom & openness” I meant:
Jolla takes the freedom to cheat customers and open are only the bills…! 🙁
I take this lost investment (over 800$ for 3 tablets, lastucases, shipment costs, and at least the tax after “completing” my order) as an experience with crowdfunding: From now on, start-ups must live without my contribution.
Closing the chapter “Jolla” in my mobile history now. Sail on!
Yes, they used “our” money for other stuff than what it should be used to THE TABLET. OC they have the right to do so but its really bad behavior, bad management and we have the same right to hold them responsible for the MEGA failure. What are rookie team!
Even if they tell you to finalize your order and pay local tax: Your money is lost, you won’t get a tablet! So: be careful, or you will lose more money (like I did):
https://twitter.com/ShyBenKlyster/status/668380537875275776
Is this true? because if so, Juhani lied to us that tablets will be delivered…!
Let’s stick together. I do want to wait and see if they are going to deliver.
But if they don’t, let’s pull them down forever.
That should be the penalty on totally screwing a loyal community (not about money, it’s about trust).
So, when eg this site goes down, I suggest we communicate via @JollaUsers.
There are 12000 of us. Enough for some legal firework.
I’m in. I am willing to give them one last chance to redeem themselves, but if at the end they decide to simply ditch us like an annoying nuisance – in this case I want them down.
I don’t care about ‘taking them down’.
I payed money to get a tablet. I didn’t. If they can’t deliver the tablet, I want something else in return for my money: the OS.
If they fail to deliver the tablet, backers should get the OS. Let’s demand them making it completely free and Open Source.
+1
@Turbinenreiter
I’m with you…have a spare NOKIA 1520.
Would like to see Sailfish OS on this beautiful phone.
speak for your self, I don’t care for opensource OS. There are plenty of them on the market. What I want is either tablet or full refund so I can buy another one instead.
Sorry, but I estimate the chances of Jolla releasing the Sailfish source code to be ZERO.
The harsh truth is that Jolla (as a company) does not have even a modicum of faith in freedom and openness. Recent events and Jolla’s behaviour during these events prove that for them “freedom” and “openness” are nothing but fancy catchwords.
There is simply no point to appeal to their conscience. They’ll just lose it on the wind and try to get the most money they can from selling Sailfish and other IP. And besides appealing, there is nothing we can do to make them open the source.
Count me in.
Is anyone from Jolla going to make some sort of definite announcement on this blog (in English please) so at least we all know where we stand? As said (rightly) before by others here the silence from Jolla is deafening.
I dont think jolla knows since the dont have any money and has hidden the truth for us so it’s hard to come clean. Marc and the Italian cofounder didn’t dare to face the backers so the took the easy way out as far as I know. They fucked up and left everything without a comment! Lame! I lost the respect for them.
Another day, another failure to communicate by Jolla.
Let’s just assume its a dead duck and walk away.
If you wish to let this go, it is fine by me. I am still waiting for tablet or full refund. In my opinion they owe me money or device. Just to be clear, I don’t need device by next year or so, then they can keep it and return my money…
No one should let this go. The more comments they see with people giving up, the less they need to try.
Feel sorry for the guys who might lose their jobs, but also for folks who bought this tablet which was maybe half a months salary for some.
It’s hard to take all the lies we have been fed, and it wouldn’t take much for someone just to say sorry.
In general I agree, but from various Press Reports it now appears that Jolla is effectively broke.
As various Jolla shills have extensively pointed-out those of us who contributed to the initial Indiegogo campaign did not “buy” a product. I’m no lawyer, but I’ll bet the small print means no refunds if they don’t deliver.
It also looks likely that Jolla has “burnt” all its\our money trying to save Sailfish, so even if refunds were\are legally possible, they simply don’t have any cash.
The cynic in me rather suspects the whole Tablet offer was at least partially a scam from the outset:
* The “Finnish” design consisting in a revised back to a generic device
* The switch to a new dispaly necessitating huge delays and so-on
* Separation into “Hardware” & “Software” companies – facilitates dumping contributors in the sh1t, while potentiually profiting from IP developed with our cash
* The “Production Problems” which affected only Jolla, not the actual designer \ manufacturer of the Tablet.
* The constant refusal to communicate anything meaningful to the “faithful” (us)
I do not consider myself a cynic, and yet I 100% agree with each and every of your points. I guess it’s all about one’s mindset
Can all of us almost 12000 backers or less make an online signing campaign and submit it to the Finnish Authorities, Indiegogo, Paypal for action against Jolla? Any advice would be welcome & if someone from Finland can give more inputs about local laws, that would be great. Ahoy Sailors….
I’m not completely sure, but if one has contributed in the IGG campaign, then you’ll get your money back if:
A) You will get the tablet and return it according to Jolla’s return policy.
B) Jolla will make some sort of refund option available for thos who contributed via IGG.
C) You pre-ordered the tablet from Jolla Shop – even if you don’t get the tablet. This is the only case that is sure that you can get your money back, because you ordered a product. The IGG is a 50-50 chanse and depends how Jolla will arrange the return of the contributions, if it ever will.
PayPal has a 60 day return policy (if I remember correctly), so that’s a no-go.
So, conclusion, if you participated in the IGG, you might or might not get your money – IGG or Jolla isn’t forced/obligated to return a dime. If you pre-ordered, you are entitled to a refund, if you do not get the product you ordered.
Not quite. Finland us in EU, so they need to oblige European consumers law. And also there are private law suit against party who performed act of fraud, which in this case it would be. They presented tablet and they sold them upfront, but they haven’t deliver it. That is legally called a fraud.
@prometheus you’re not a lawyer, are you? 😆
EU law can be left off the table and in general consumer rights don’t apply when talking about the IGG campaign. They would for the purpose of anyone purchasing through the pre-order program.
But.. According to Finnish law crowdfunding is illegal unless you deliver a product to the participants. Collecting without offering a perk is considered to be like charity and you have to have a money collection permit. To not fall under the money collection permit requirement you must ensure the project is structured so that the reward will be delivered. JOlla seems to have failed on this aspect.
See here: http://www.castren.fi/Page/c1ccbac8-1bad-436e-bb79-e1ffaa00df14.aspx?groupId=cdeed881-8278-43d3-9994-ccf6a6a633e7&announcementId=2ad5dad5-80ce-4477-ace6-eec813b0bab0
Things get extra weird here in that Jolla Oy is attributing the IGG campaign to JOlla Inc which wasn’t even a company/didn’t exist at the time of the IGG campaign. So there’s some funny business going on that needs to be reconciled.
I really want the tablet, but I’m not going to hold my breath.
well according to the first part, if they don’t release tablets, they committed a crime, fraud. regarding second part, where you stated that they didn’t exist, hm: From the IGG website: “Jolla
Identity Verified
Email Verified” That is quite clear to me that Jolla has created campaign. 🙂
No but I see that you are… So did cat got your tongue? Are you here to defend them and call us drama queens for asking about our tablets?
C’mon ossi1967, tell us how Jolla is great… Try to convince us how they will deliver what they’ve presented, and that we are only wining without any true cause…
You can read through the IGG terms and conditions. After that, you can ask either IGG or Jolla to return your money, see how it goes.
P.S. I see that they are not in a hurry for releasing news regarding this topic…
Give them a chance, they probably been partying all weekend with the jolla band…
LOL, good one.
They are still selling phones? Why don’t they offer these as compensation for the tablet backers/mugs/idiots?
Actually I have two phones. I simply don’t know what I can do with another one. In my case it can only then be a refund. or delivering tablet this year.
After the press release, currently Jolla seems to be communicating only via Finnish newspapers. Here you go with some translations:
Aamulehti on Nov 19 (full article):
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.com/2015/11/news-jolla-financial-difficulties.html
Helsingin Sanomat, two posts (picks regarding shipping):
http://reviewjolla.blogspot.fi/2015/09/jolla-tablet-3rd-delay-on-shipping.html#nov22
All Finnish newspapers, a collection of recent news between 19th – 23rd of November:
https://pod.readme.is/posts/446080
If you need direct links to any of the original posts, please ask via RJ Blog or Twitter. There were all together 6 articles in Finnish I used.
Thank you very much for this post. A shame Jolla can’t be bothered….
We’re all in this together, I’m not especially exited of sharing bad news either, but ppl are worth informing and it seems Jolla is busy with everything else right now. Keep the Sailor attitude, DIT, get Jolla’s sails up again!
A sad story. I wish Jolla the very best. But I have accepted that my IGG contribution will not result in any perks in the form of a nice Jolla Tablet for me.
As the company split into two, probably in anticipation of the day they ran out of money, it seems inevitable that they will have to make existential ‘tough decisions’ and one of those will be to let the HW business fail, and hope to finance the SW side. The HW side is now just
expense with no revenue potential.
I get a very Rover or Saab feeling about this, the international financing partners may just sit tight. Why invest now in a business that still has value in its IP, when you can pick that IP up for next to nothing in a disposal of assets.
No point in expecting refunds if there is no money. Rather than killing off Sailfish for the sake of delivering a Tablet,being pragmatic about it, I’d rather they went on to successfully develop SFOS, with good hardware support from 3rd parties. Then I will be happy that my IGG contribution didn’t go to waste.
Can’t be easy – Jolla seems to be stuck in a place between start-up and big business, and this might explain why they have been exasperatingly vague with their public communications.
Weren’t we suppose to get an update today about refunds? Its been such a mish mash of updates from different sources that I may be getting mixed up.
I’ve asked the help desk to refund my $20 in shipping that I paid for upfront, we’ll see how that goes.
Looks like Jolla decided that since we are able to discover articles in obscure Finnish newspapers on our own, it means that we don’t need any blog posts anymore 🙂
No refund possible for a bankrupt company (forbidden by law) the Customer are almost the less important creditors (just before the share holders) in case of bankruptcy roughly the creditors ranks are:
1 – Tax office
2 – Social security
3 – Employee
4 – Banks & Providers
5 – Customers
6 – Shareholders
Sorry but no need to cry and to fight from now. the situation is already very difficult for our sailors, they did their best to provide us with a terrific OS and as of today they are laid off.
A thought to them and to their families.
We had a nice cruise together, let hope that they will find some good wind for other adventures.
> A thought to them
Why? Professional programmers have zero problems with employment, I bet they already found their new jobs long before they were forced to leave – maybe months ago
@Ericpound, not everybody had the possibility to see this “terrific OS” despite buying a ghost tablet that should have been shipped 6 months ago.
So, if you had a fantastic cruise, I just bought the ticket, but the ship wasn’t there.
great comparison.
@Ericdupond
Given the way Jolla has behaved, can we please lose this patronising cutesey nautical metaphor?
Marginally acceptable when they were being a bit weird and Finnish, not so much now they’ve disappeared with our cash & without a trace….
I have every sympathy for the (ex)employees of the company. They too appear to have been let down by a rather incompetent set of managers.
I can’t comment on the “terrific OS” as I don’t have anything to run it on. Similarly I wasn’t present on any “cruise”.
It would have been nice if Jolla could bring this “adventure” to a satisfactory conclusion before setting of any new ones.
Source Reuters, today:
FINLAND’S JOLLA FILES FOR DEBT RESTRUCTURING AFTER RUNNING OUT OF FUNDS
HELSINKI (Reuters) – Finnish mobile operating system company Jolla, created by ex-Nokia software developers, has filed to a local court for debt restructuring after running out of funding and plans temporary lay-offs, it said on Friday.
Jolla was founded four years ago by Nokia’s former MeeGo software team, which was shut down after the once-dominant phone maker failed to compete with smartphones such as Apple’s iPhone and decided to switch to Microsoft’s Windows Phone software. Nokia eventually sold its ailing phones business to Microsoft last year.
Jolla developed its own operating system called Sailfish, based on MeeGo software, and launched two devices running on it, but recent funding talks with investors have stalled.
“Jolla’s funding round has been delayed, which is why the company must adjust and reorganise its operations. We will apply for a corporate reorganisation to ensure continuity and turn into profitability,” the company said in a statement.
It said it would have to temporarily lay off a large part of its staff of about 100, but did not say how many. It did not say how much debt it had. (Reporting by Jussi Rosendahl) © Reuters 2015
As I mentioned earlier, we can wait and see if they are going to deliver or not.
If they deliver then it’s OK.
On the other hand, something should be very clear to Jolla, its key players and the investors.
If they decide to restart the company using our investment and without delivering the tablets, they can expect a massive number of blogs, emails, tweets, whatever, to name and shame the responsible people by name.
Ongoing, every time they show up.
So basically, ban them from the Internet.
I hope this will not be necessary, but the latest tweets of Antti Saarnio shows no sign of any regret.
I agree with this.
I would like an email from Jolla every day, even if it just says “We have not forgotten you.”
There are lots of comments: “Let’s wait and see if they deliver.”
Stop fooling yourselves. I think they will not deliver. And if they come up with a proposal to finish the purchase, pay taxes and wait for the delivery, I am reluctant to waste any more money because I am not sure I will get anything for it.
Well, now that shit has hit the fan, I don’t think they will send proposals to finish the purchase unless they are 100% certain they’ll actually ship the tablets… Otherwise it will be downright fraud, and they are not at this stage yet
I think they have done that. See:
JollaPhot on November 11, 2015 at 5:53 pm
BJC /tablet_schedule_aptoide_store/#comment-3393
Turbinenreiter on November 11, 2015 at 5:38 pm
BJC /tablet_schedule_aptoide_store/#comment-3384
I’ve already seen those, of course. I meant that Jolla could send those proposals because a month ago they still believed that they’ll get funding, AND also the public didn’t know about their financial problems back then. So these two examples don’t seem pure fraud to me (“there is still hope they are honest” is what I mean).
Feels like fraud to me.
They absolutely knew that they can’t deliver. In the ticket I opened, they also lied about the reasons. They said ‘problems with the fulfillment center’ are causing a delay. They acted as if my tablet was actually built but got hung up in logistics. Now we know that my tablet wasn’t even built yet. They are a bunch of liars and scams.
+1
exactly the problem: many (me included) completed their orders, payed tax (I payed 68$ on 11/01/2015) and got – nothing!
So be careful if you’ll find the tablets in your shopping carts and are forced to pay tax: The money could be lost!
So I guess no blog post today either?
Have patience, they still have time. Maybe they meant to publish a new blog post on November 23, in the timezone of Howland Island.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anywhere_on_Earth
They promised it to nov. 20. at first.
nov. 19.: “A blog will follow tomorrow.”
https://twitter.com/AnttiSaarnio/status/667337032914472960
nov. 20.: “as I understand there will be a blog post early next week to explain more”
https://together.jolla.com/question/122218/the-status-of-jolla/
My comment is awaiting moderation…
They promised it to nov. 20. at first.
nov. 19.: “A blog will follow tomorrow.”
twitter /AnttiSaarnio/status/667337032914472960
nov. 20.: “as I understand there will be a blog post early next week to explain more”
TJC /question/122218/the-status-of-jolla/
you can only hope… 🙂
Just in case: if the forum is shut down, we know enough.
Best to join https://www.facebook.com/groups/778654475593332/ if not already done.
Just sent the apply to join. Thanks.
Another day, another silence…..Can anyone please provide me the e-mail of the customers office in Finland? (In Spain we have a government office for customer complaints, so I suppose that in Finland they have it too). Thanks in advance.
http://www.kkv.fi/en/
It seems that they can’t anymore even ship purchased phones. Ordered phone 13th Nov (because of slush offer). After ten days no updates for delivery information i did try to contact them without success. I did send them two support request and also called to phone numbers (two of them) which seems to be out dated.
If Jolla thinks that they can do business like this they are wrong! I am disappointed to you. And your web pages are horrible. I have now registered in to three times (shop, support and blog). How hard is it to make one account which cover all of these? If your OS is as good as your web pages it is better that Sailfish will sink.
Today a Finnish weekly tech magazine T&T wrote an article labeled: “Jolla’s risks realized”. The article is decorated by big block letters “JOLLA SINKS” and it simply says that Jolla tried to build a new mobile ecosystem but finally failed. The reporter has written the story as it is totally over now. “Phones and tablets both failed” and “Jolla has no Sailfish license deals, not even one”. “The latest troubles are related to the tablets, only very few subscribers have received their devices and the rest seem to lose their money”.
So c’mon guys, we all know we supported a crowdfunding campaign without any warranty. I’m quite sure one year ago many of us said proudly: “Today I supported a new Jolla tablet, because no matter what happens I want to encourage people doing cool things”. And look at us now. We are crying for consumer rights and jelling how evil the company is. Let’s be honest. As the magazine states, we took a risk and it seems it’s realizing. And if it happens, let’s not blame Jolla but ourselves.
However, nothing can be achieved by being mad about this and by writing negative comments to a blog hosted by people how probably enough worries right now. And if Jolla is one day saved by an investor who immediately buries the whole tablet project, again it is not on the tablet project team. I’m sure THEY know how important it would be to keep these Sailfish supporters happy. Supporters.. oh rather just angry consumers, I guess. Nobody wants to support the losing team.
Jolla did fail in communication. That is for sure. Actually this blog material would be very interesting data source for a thesis case study about a bad example of company communication. No matter if they deliver the device or not, they have failed in many things. Most of it is probably because of lack of skills, resources, time, money or all of them. But one is for sure; they did not fail on purpose. And they have also SUCCEEDED. For example, personally I was sure in 2013 after preordering the phone that I will never see it. And although I prefer OnePlus2 today, last week I bought one more Jolla phone, just for keepsake.
Thank you Jolla for the journey, it has been interesting to follow the story! No matter what will happen.
http://summa.talentum.fi/article/tt/jollan-riskit-toteutuivat/238840
oh, please. I was not the one to believe that I could conquer the world because I raised 480% of the original goal. I was not the one who wasted money into creating another company, nor to spend so much money on PR and events like Slush and other bullshit. I hold them responsible for that. We ordered tablet, and that is why we financed Jolla. They did everything except that, so this is by my opinion fraud. If I make a deal with you that you finance me for something and I waste all that money on hookers, drugs, partying or whatever… And I say, sorry dude, but simply I couldn’t do it. I had so many expense to deal with (well the hookers are quite expensive now days… :D), you can simply forget about everything and we can call it a day. what do you say?
Sounds fair. After I give you less than 1.8M€ at the same time you close another funding round leaving you with 34M€.. And if you are then able to both
1. almost produce the thing I asked for (except shipping)
2. spend both of the money on hookers
I would say: What a day!
Sorry, but I call BS. I already used those campaigns as examples, but I don’t blame you for not reading 500+ comments in this thread; so here you go, again:
TellSpec
Healbe
Scribble
KREYOS
Smarty Ring
These campaigns were NOT made by honest and inspired people who sincerely wanted to create something new, but lied in the bed of honour, unable to withstand the odds.
These campaigns were SCAM. Each of them raised a LOT more than they claimed they needed, and didn’t spend one cent on the research/development/manufacturing. They just took the money, told their backers “sorry, it was fun but we gotta go” and disappeared.
And judging by a number of signs, Jolla did exactly the same.
So do not you fucking dare to call me a crybaby who didn’t understand the risks a year ago. I was perfectly ready to not get my tablet, but I expected Jolla to at least TRY to make it. And if they gave at least a teeny-weeny bit of fuck, they would manufacture it with no problems whatsoever. But instead they siphoned off the raised money.
because of a person like him, companies think that it is totally normal to behave like that. Taking the money and not delivering that they supposed to…
“I’m quite sure one year ago many of us said proudly: “Today I supported a new Jolla tablet, because no matter what happens I want to encourage people doing cool things””
Yes maybe, but they have not done any “cool things” since the summer. They did just the opposite.
“However, nothing can be achieved by being mad about this and by writing negative comments”
I think some of us hope somebody will read the comments and maybe learn something from it.
And we can exchange news and information about jolla, they do not post any official news here anyway.
“blog hosted by people how probably enough worries right now.”
I think they do not deal with this blog anyway.
“I’m sure THEY know how important it would be to keep these Sailfish supporters happy.”
Maybe they should write a blog post with real information what they promised…
Unbelievable. Recently on http://jolla-adventures.com/
Antti Saarnio
Adventurer, Investments & Strategy
Antti is an emerging market and technology business adventurer, an entrepreneur and a strategist. He’s speciality is to create and grow companies: the bigger the agenda – the better; more impossible – the better. Antti’s core skills are in growth company and investment management, business strategies, financial modeling, and management models. His special talent and interest areas include M&A, fund raising (+50MUSD raised), growth company management, and working in emerging markets.
This is hilarious. I couldn’t help but took a screenshot of this shit.
Giving bum steer like this is the reason why I’m feeling more and more sure that Jolla’s entrepreneurs are con artists, plain and simple.
well since he raised +50Mil $, he can now pay for the tablets that are ordered one year ago…
It was his job to raise the money and he did it. We got the Jolla phone to prove that. There are other tasks in the company that did not run so smoothly. 50 MUSD should be more than enough to create and run business if the products and plans are OK.
Don’t forget about Marc Dillon. He was also the one who started all this, and how appropriate he bailed just one month when all this started… perhaps we should visit his personal twitter profile, to ask him how is going?
Marc with his energy, vision and enthusiasm was the best possible person at the start for a startup.
How convenient that he stepped up just when everything started to fall…
This is the chronology of events:-
1. The funding guys told Jolla they will invest money
2. Jolla based this and egged on by the investors, created a IGG campaign to test the waters
3. All were very happy, but there was a catch..the funding guys wanted piece of Jolla OS (IP rights etc..)
4. Jolla did not agree to those terms and conditions, they only wanted to share the profits not IP rights of OS and did not want to make OS open source.
5. The talk stalled, no further progress..
6. Jolla had kicked off the campaign, they were waiting for resolution, the tablet release dates coincided with the release of funds (payments)
7. Jolla lost most of the money raised in the campaign due to manufacturing cost and delays, also HW changes
8. Funding guys asked the company to split so that they can be managed independently
9. Jolla obliged, this did not go well with many..so they jumped the ship..
10. Still no funding..no resolution..Jolla cannot communicate all these because of weird NDAs (stupid NDAs, I Know..)
11. Only way forward..the funding guys relent, since they were the ones to induce Jolla do the campaign.
P.S.-Jolla actually will bounce back
Ofcourse all these are my speculations, take it with a pinch of salt.. 😀
Also CarolChen and IekkuPylkkä go home: can this really help us to find out our tablet?
Just for the sake of clarity, I ordered the tablet (yeah, yeah, invested, croudfunding, no guarantee… blah blah… whatever) because
1) was a good price for the HW
2) the producer promised that in the future the OS would be released under an open source license.
3) the company had some credibility because they already delivered something
I am sure that this is why many other did.
And I am also sure that most of us didn’t fund the campaign just to help Jolla. Because before giving money to Jolla, I would donate that money wikipedia, to vlc, to FSF, to the Linux foundation, to mozilla foundation, debian etc. All companies and organizations that ALREADY gave me something, and for sure deserve to be helped.
Jolla on the other hand, tried to make an OS to become rich out of it, don’t get me wrong, it’s a legit reason, but don’t expect my sympathies, because the queue of companies that deserve it before you is quite long.
I agree with everything that you said. Just one slight difference, I didn’t count that they would not be able to deliver it. They had a prototype, so the price of the tablet was known. They delivered phone, so credibility for me was not questioned.
Well… I also expected to get a tablet 🙂
I actually hope to get it still, because despite everything, I don’t think that they did it on purpose, things just went wrong, and they are not as marketable as they thought.
Only one thing, really REALLY still pisses me off, and it’s this very low communication with the backing community.
I don’t know if that’s because of any NDA, but at least they could tell us so “sorry guys, we read your comments, but we cannot say anything about that: we have an NDA that forbids us to do so.”
And this lack of communication is enough for me to want them down in case they don’t deliver, because to me they did nothing, really nothing to deserve any sympathy.
Ok everyone. Need some opinions. If Jolla cannot be revived or saved, who actually owns the rights to Sailfish OS, assuming it is not sold to pay off debt.
With the key personnel – Mark and Carsten gone – YotaPhone just been 65% sold to the a questionable Singapore company of Rex Int. Holdings (that has been on stock exchange trading halt since October 2015)and nothing from Intex. The stars are not aligning in Jolla’s favour.
here is a new post by jolla chief!
Where is here?
it’s over , we got taken by a bunch of con artists . They will all get what they deserve later in life .
Right now you might as well kiss your money goodbye! I will never do anything with any crowd funding sources again without absolute assurances to either get the product or get my money returned!
Having been inside Nokia and watching it’s demise the big problem they had was not facing the issue of “feature” creep, something I’m betting happened to Sailfish. What is truly annoying is they – the Jolla team – had an obligation to deliver what they said they were going to deliver and not switch horses mid-stream. Generally that is a sign of very poor management.
Like others I would have taken the tablet with an inferior system and worked with the open source community to make it better. It always happens that way.
What I will do from now on is see if any company I’m dealing with has any of the Jolla team and if so walk away.
What happens with my tablet. It was paid for via Indiegogo in November 2014. Never had any news since. I am disappointed. I want my money back if you cannot send me the product.
Fernand St-Georges
+418-261-6847